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Bofferbrauer2 on 14 February 2021
Machiavellian said:
RolStoppable said:

Good stuff. I am looking forward to Trump running again in 2024.

I really hope he does run in 2024 because that would be absolutly great.  Nothing motivate people more than Trump and that is both sides of the isle.  I still do not believe he will actually run but probably at least pretend to get some of that sweet campaign money but it should be interesting and a lot can happen in 4 years.

If he runs, he probably has the republican primary in the bag already:

Even when his supporters stormed the capitol, he only dropped to 29% of the republican vote and stayed in front of everybody else so far who expressed interest. Whoever wants to beat Trump must do a serious Obama (who was far behind Hillary half a year before the primaries actually started yet pulled ahead in the end)



The Nintendo eShop rating Thread: http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=237454 List as Google Doc:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aW2hXQT1TheElVS7z-F3pP-7nbqdrDqWNTxl6JoJWBY/edit?usp=sharing

The Steam/GOG key gifting thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/242024/the-steamgog-key-gifting-thread/1/ 

Free Pc Games thread: https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread/248138/free-pc-games/1/

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vivster on 14 February 2021

US politics are silly. Parties have the power to acquit criminals but aren't even allowed to choose who represents their party.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Machiavellian on 16 February 2021
Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

And still you seem to avoid the basic question.  You still have nothing for getting anything done now when people are in need but you believe that the Dems can just wait until some pie in the sky political campaign change Republican constituents.

I am perfectly find with the Dems growing M4A but its not the only option and its definitely not the one that will get done within the next 2 years or better.  The Biden plan has way more chance since it gives an option which has more support from all sides not just the Progressives.  You are basically saying its either what I think is best or nothing at all and in your world, nothing at all is all you will see.  You rather go for the long ball hoping for the hail Mary instead of taking the short option and driving down to score points.  

As for the Moderate Dems, I believe you just do not get it.  It doesn't matter what the moderate Dems compromise has done or not done.  What matter is that you have NO choice but to deal with them or nothing gets done.  You need 60 votes, and you still avoid this very simple very plain situation in the Senate which you have no answer for besides some advertising in those Senator states like that doesn't get done ever election.

The person who is deflecting is you because we still have the same question and the same problem.  How do you get to 60 votes. How do you get any Republican to vote on Progressive policies.  How do you get the moderate Dems to vote when they are in right leaning states.  You have this huge hope in some poll you read as if that's the only qualification to change voters minds to support any particular bill or policy.  Lets see how far M4A gets with the current Senate since you believe in this poll so much. Lets see how far the minimum wage increase gets if the Dems do not deal with Joe.  We can argue these points forever but only results count.

Deflection again.. no surprise ;)

I have given you Bernie's strategy for a stalemate situation of convincing the electorate to change a senators mind instead (not going to repeat the details a 5th time), but instead of trying something new you think a "moderate" Dem strategy of compromise that has achieved next to nothing in decades for the working poor will suddenly work now, dream on :/  

And yes it does matter what the moderate Dems compromise has done or not done, what a cop out, it matters when you already know the non-result of trying to do the same again, basic logic

Obviously your not personally desperate enough to give a damn if your happy to wait further decades even for gun control let alone M4A, it obviously does not affect you personally  

Waiting on your next deflection 

I am still waiting on you to give a viable way to 60 votes to the Senate.  You keep talking about Bernie plan as if that is a plan.  What you have not given is how will that plan succeed within any particular time frame that would do something now.  How does that plan get you 60 votes for minimum wage today.  Hell, how does that plan even get you Joe's vote.  You let me know when you can answer that question.  So while you wait for Bernie plan to succeed, you get nothing now.  You do not get no progress because the GOP can just sit on their votes.  Right wing media as they have done so far and continue to do today will advocate against it which moves none of them.  Let see in 2 years how many GOP Senators will run with minimum wage on their ticket and lets see how many do not get elected to office.

So in your wisdom, how would you get those moderate Dems to vote for those precious progressive polices in the past and now.  Please, lets not use Bernie advertising campaign.  You call it a cop out but you have no plan and absolutely nothing that get them out of those seats.  The cop out is your way of thinking because if you have no way to move them out then your only course is to deal or get nothing done. I personally do not understand why this very simple and basic situation you fail to understand.  If a progressive Senator in their state was popular, you would not have a moderate Dem in that Seat.  If the people will not vote for a progressive Senator then you have to work with what you got.  You can bring up all the progressive plans you want and if they will not vote on it especially if you do not have 60 votes or more to get it done, you tell me what happens, I am all ears in hearing how you suddenly turn those votes out of nothing into something.

You continue to believe that advertising, which is done every election, somehow is suddenly going to just change minds.  Yes, this can work maybe but then again it still gets you nothing TODAY.  How simple is that.  You have your strategy that is a maybe.  A long shot at best and at worst nothing.  The interesting part is you believe that this is something new or different.  Lol, you believe advertising against a moderate Dem or GOP in their state is something new.  I mean where have you been for the last century.  Both sides are masters at advertising to their constituents, its why we still have these same old farts in Congress and the white house every election cycle.  

As for me being desperate, nope I am not desperate but then again, I have not been paid minimum wage since I was 14 years old.  Even still, if I was desperate, I would want something now not in 2 years, not in 4 years or never.  I would want them to get something done now and I would not want to wait for some advertising campaign to change the minds of Republican constituents or GOP Senator after watching elections for over 40 years.

I do not know if you have strong republican friends but I do.  After everything that has happen including the impeachment, the trial, the riot at the capitol and just the 4 years of Trump presidency, do you know that most of them will still vote Trump if he runs in 2024.  Yeah, you depend on that advertising campaign to change Republican constituents, I will look at reality and realize change the way you believe will happen is something that takes years sometimes even decades.  Republicans constituents have been voting against their own welfare for decades, why would that change or be any different now.



Machiavellian on 16 February 2021

I do believe that Trump if he decided to run will win the GOP primary which would be great. I just feel that there is really a lot of people that just do not want to go back to another 4 years of Trump which showed this election cycle. I would believe the turn out from independents and Dems, hell even some Republican constituents will be strongly oppose and I would love to see him get another defeat by Biden which would bring sweet tears to his base. I do believe that Trump and his family has figured out that their is a lot of money to be made in politics which they will continue to reap dividends as long as their are gullible people willing to send their cash to him. Either way, Trump will need to get past the storm of lawsuits coming his way.



Rab on 16 February 2021
Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

Deflection again.. no surprise ;)

I have given you Bernie's strategy for a stalemate situation of convincing the electorate to change a senators mind instead (not going to repeat the details a 5th time), but instead of trying something new you think a "moderate" Dem strategy of compromise that has achieved next to nothing in decades for the working poor will suddenly work now, dream on :/  

And yes it does matter what the moderate Dems compromise has done or not done, what a cop out, it matters when you already know the non-result of trying to do the same again, basic logic

Obviously your not personally desperate enough to give a damn if your happy to wait further decades even for gun control let alone M4A, it obviously does not affect you personally  

Waiting on your next deflection 

I am still waiting on you to give a viable way to 60 votes to the Senate.  You keep talking about Bernie plan as if that is a plan.  What you have not given is how will that plan succeed within any particular time frame that would do something now.  How does that plan get you 60 votes for minimum wage today.  Hell, how does that plan even get you Joe's vote.  You let me know when you can answer that question.  So while you wait for Bernie plan to succeed, you get nothing now.  You do not get no progress because the GOP can just sit on their votes.  Right wing media as they have done so far and continue to do today will advocate against it which moves none of them.  Let see in 2 years how many GOP Senators will run with minimum wage on their ticket and lets see how many do not get elected to office.

So in your wisdom, how would you get those moderate Dems to vote for those precious progressive polices in the past and now.  Please, lets not use Bernie advertising campaign.  You call it a cop out but you have no plan and absolutely nothing that get them out of those seats.  The cop out is your way of thinking because if you have no way to move them out then your only course is to deal or get nothing done. I personally do not understand why this very simple and basic situation you fail to understand.  If a progressive Senator in their state was popular, you would not have a moderate Dem in that Seat.  If the people will not vote for a progressive Senator then you have to work with what you got.  You can bring up all the progressive plans you want and if they will not vote on it especially if you do not have 60 votes or more to get it done, you tell me what happens, I am all ears in hearing how you suddenly turn those votes out of nothing into something.

You continue to believe that advertising, which is done every election, somehow is suddenly going to just change minds.  Yes, this can work maybe but then again it still gets you nothing TODAY.  How simple is that.  You have your strategy that is a maybe.  A long shot at best and at worst nothing.  The interesting part is you believe that this is something new or different.  Lol, you believe advertising against a moderate Dem or GOP in their state is something new.  I mean where have you been for the last century.  Both sides are masters at advertising to their constituents, its why we still have these same old farts in Congress and the white house every election cycle.  

As for me being desperate, nope I am not desperate but then again, I have not been paid minimum wage since I was 14 years old.  Even still, if I was desperate, I would want something now not in 2 years, not in 4 years or never.  I would want them to get something done now and I would not want to wait for some advertising campaign to change the minds of Republican constituents or GOP Senator after watching elections for over 40 years.

I do not know if you have strong republican friends but I do.  After everything that has happen including the impeachment, the trial, the riot at the capitol and just the 4 years of Trump presidency, do you know that most of them will still vote Trump if he runs in 2024.  Yeah, you depend on that advertising campaign to change Republican constituents, I will look at reality and realize change the way you believe will happen is something that takes years sometimes even decades.  Republicans constituents have been voting against their own welfare for decades, why would that change or be any different now.

Well you continue to support a strategy that has achieved next to nothing in decades because you cant think of another way, you have never addressed that question, ever.. if a system isnt working what do you do? The Working poor need an answer

You discount Bernie's plan of targeted campaigns in the target Senators electorate to convince them and others down the line to at least consider proposals if not move on them before they loose their coveted seats, Bernie has said even outside the election cycle you should be unrelenting in the exposure of bad faith Senators and target them aggressively in their own states, ultimately giving power back to the people and taking it away from Senators, I suppose it's similar to Genghis Khan's strategy of the complete annihilation of cities that resisted and watch the others cities just open their gates soon after

At least he has an alternative strategy which he talked about in the election, Bernie has been right on so many things (like M4A) and has been so far ahead of the curve (even Biden now is bending to those ideas because the people want them and he cant ignore that), whereas other Dems/Reps have lacked the will and imagination for decades. Bernie was been decades in the wilderness, almost alone with his ideas, and only in recent times have his ideas now become mainstream/modern with a huge young/youth movement behind it, time is on the young peoples side, Senators that are targeted have a lot to worry about

Anyway tell me how successful the compromise model has been for one issue at least, gun control, it's only taken decades of killings and a huge public outcry to get us where?  Many Many more examples of issues the Working poor have faced that politicians have compromised on with no tangible result for the working poor in decades, it doesn't work, even a kid wouldn't do something repeatedly that doesn't work, mind boggles   

Last edited by Rab - on 16 February 2021

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Rab on 16 February 2021

Sadly, Biden Administrations foreign policy is showing signs of being Republican Lite in flavour, most likely a compromise and appeasement to the Republicans, the Est. Democrats have done this historically to appear "tough"

Fareed Zakaria talks about this issue in regards to the Dems back flip on Iran 

  



Machiavellian on 17 February 2021
Rab said:

Well you continue to support a strategy that has achieved next to nothing in decades because you cant think of another way, you have never addressed that question, ever.. if a system isnt working what do you do? The Working poor need an answer

You discount Bernie's plan of targeted campaigns in the target Senators electorate to convince them and others down the line to at least consider proposals if not move on them before they loose their coveted seats, Bernie has said even outside the election cycle you should be unrelenting in the exposure of bad faith Senators and target them aggressively in their own states, ultimately giving power back to the people and taking it away from Senators, I suppose it's similar to Genghis Khan's strategy of the complete annihilation of cities that resisted and watch the others cities just open their gates soon after

At least he has an alternative strategy which he talked about in the election, Bernie has been right on so many things (like M4A) and has been so far ahead of the curve (even Biden now is bending to those ideas because the people want them and he cant ignore that), whereas other Dems/Reps have lacked the will and imagination for decades. Bernie was been decades in the wilderness, almost alone with his ideas, and only in recent times have his ideas now become mainstream/modern with a huge young/youth movement behind it, time is on the young peoples side, Senators that are targeted have a lot to worry about

Anyway tell me how successful the compromise model has been for one issue at least, gun control, it's only taken decades of killings and a huge public outcry to get us where?  Many Many more examples of issues the Working poor have faced that politicians have compromised on with no tangible result for the working poor in decades, it doesn't work, even a kid wouldn't do something repeatedly that doesn't work, mind boggles   

Why don't you tell me now successful advertisement today has been successful in getting those working class poor what they need.  I mean if you believe its such a successful solution, you probably have examples right. We keep circling the wagons here but the question still remains.  You have a 50/50 Senate, you want something done now and you need 60 votes.  When does this happen.  We can play this game all day but that fact still remain.  You need 60 votes.  If you go for reconciliation you need all 50 Dems, so how you going to get Joe or any other moderate Dem to vote.  You believe an ad campaign will suddenly raise mana from heaven and all those conservative voters will call Joe office and tell him to vote for your progressive plan. 

Well, I am not going to argue this point anymore, I wait to see this put into action.  You are right, I care not what Bernie says, I care what he can do so if his plan truly is the gold strategy, I am sure he will raise the money and put it into effect.  If not then its just empty air because action and results are what matter not pretty words used to make you feel warn and fluffy.  Until then its a waste of time.  As stated, lets see how long it takes for M4A which is Bernie plan get implemented, hell we can wait and see when the minimum wage gets done as well.  I am sure something will happen but probably not 15 bucks an hour at least not within the next 5 years.  



Rab on 17 February 2021
Machiavellian said:
Rab said:

Well you continue to support a strategy that has achieved next to nothing in decades because you cant think of another way, you have never addressed that question, ever.. if a system isnt working what do you do? The Working poor need an answer

You discount Bernie's plan of targeted campaigns in the target Senators electorate to convince them and others down the line to at least consider proposals if not move on them before they loose their coveted seats, Bernie has said even outside the election cycle you should be unrelenting in the exposure of bad faith Senators and target them aggressively in their own states, ultimately giving power back to the people and taking it away from Senators, I suppose it's similar to Genghis Khan's strategy of the complete annihilation of cities that resisted and watch the others cities just open their gates soon after

At least he has an alternative strategy which he talked about in the election, Bernie has been right on so many things (like M4A) and has been so far ahead of the curve (even Biden now is bending to those ideas because the people want them and he cant ignore that), whereas other Dems/Reps have lacked the will and imagination for decades. Bernie was been decades in the wilderness, almost alone with his ideas, and only in recent times have his ideas now become mainstream/modern with a huge young/youth movement behind it, time is on the young peoples side, Senators that are targeted have a lot to worry about

Anyway tell me how successful the compromise model has been for one issue at least, gun control, it's only taken decades of killings and a huge public outcry to get us where?  Many Many more examples of issues the Working poor have faced that politicians have compromised on with no tangible result for the working poor in decades, it doesn't work, even a kid wouldn't do something repeatedly that doesn't work, mind boggles   

Why don't you tell me now successful advertisement today has been successful in getting those working class poor what they need.  I mean if you believe its such a successful solution, you probably have examples right. We keep circling the wagons here but the question still remains.  You have a 50/50 Senate, you want something done now and you need 60 votes.  When does this happen.  We can play this game all day but that fact still remain.  You need 60 votes.  If you go for reconciliation you need all 50 Dems, so how you going to get Joe or any other moderate Dem to vote.  You believe an ad campaign will suddenly raise mana from heaven and all those conservative voters will call Joe office and tell him to vote for your progressive plan. 

Well, I am not going to argue this point anymore, I wait to see this put into action.  You are right, I care not what Bernie says, I care what he can do so if his plan truly is the gold strategy, I am sure he will raise the money and put it into effect.  If not then its just empty air because action and results are what matter not pretty words used to make you feel warn and fluffy.  Until then its a waste of time.  As stated, lets see how long it takes for M4A which is Bernie plan get implemented, hell we can wait and see when the minimum wage gets done as well.  I am sure something will happen but probably not 15 bucks an hour at least not within the next 5 years.  

How little you have bothered to understand 

AOC is one of the best know examples of kicking out a powerful Est. Dem, she did it by going to the people and talking about their working class issues, it persuaded them to eventually vote for her and trust her in a way that the Dem Est. never could, she beat someone everyone thought was untouchable, the Democratic Caucus Chair Joe Crowley, it was a shocking result for the Est. Dems and Est. Media

She was outspent by a margin of 18 to 1 ($1.5 million to $83,000) but won, talking to the people about their real issues can and did work, it's all pressure, the fat rich dominos will fall 

Still avoiding to answer the question of why the working poor have suffered for decades under the Compromise Dem Est. (CDE), and why would you continue to use the same failed strategy ever again?

Last edited by Rab - on 17 February 2021

vivster on 17 February 2021

Stumbled upon this reddit post.
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/comments/llfgff/from_the_bottom_of_my_heart_fuck_the_us/
Imagine supporting a country and politicians with so much contempt for their citizens.

Sometimes I wonder how the US is still going despite practically having no middle class, high percentage of poverty and rich people who don't pay taxes. I guess slave labor is really profitable.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Machiavellian on 17 February 2021
Rab said:
Machiavellian said:

Why don't you tell me now successful advertisement today has been successful in getting those working class poor what they need.  I mean if you believe its such a successful solution, you probably have examples right. We keep circling the wagons here but the question still remains.  You have a 50/50 Senate, you want something done now and you need 60 votes.  When does this happen.  We can play this game all day but that fact still remain.  You need 60 votes.  If you go for reconciliation you need all 50 Dems, so how you going to get Joe or any other moderate Dem to vote.  You believe an ad campaign will suddenly raise mana from heaven and all those conservative voters will call Joe office and tell him to vote for your progressive plan. 

Well, I am not going to argue this point anymore, I wait to see this put into action.  You are right, I care not what Bernie says, I care what he can do so if his plan truly is the gold strategy, I am sure he will raise the money and put it into effect.  If not then its just empty air because action and results are what matter not pretty words used to make you feel warn and fluffy.  Until then its a waste of time.  As stated, lets see how long it takes for M4A which is Bernie plan get implemented, hell we can wait and see when the minimum wage gets done as well.  I am sure something will happen but probably not 15 bucks an hour at least not within the next 5 years.  

How little you have bothered to understand 

AOC is one of the best know examples of kicking out a powerful Est. Dem, she did it by going to the people and talking about their working class issues, it persuaded them to eventually vote for her and trust her in a way that the Dem Est. never could, she beat someone everyone thought was untouchable, the Democratic Caucus Chair Joe Crowley, it was a shocking result for the Est. Dems and Est. Media

She was outspent by a margin of 18 to 1 ($1.5 million to $83,000) but won, talking to the people about their real issues can and did work, it's all pressure, the fat rich dominos will fall 

Still avoiding to answer the question of why the working poor have suffered for decades under the Compromise Dem Est. (CDE), and why would you continue to use the same failed strategy ever again?

AOC and the gang of four, actually that is a pretty good example.  I await to see how they change the current climate within Washington.  T

As to why the working poor have suffered its because they do not vote.  That is pretty obvious.  If they voted in large enough numbers then the Senate and House would be a very different place.  Votes count, which we continue to state which you continue to ignore.  Votes get things done, might not be fast enough for you but that is the reality. 

You keep talking about the same failed strategy but you still avoid the question, how do you get something done now.  So what is your plan to get something done now.  You still have Joe there in the way, so your plan is that you can get rid of Joe by next election cycle and put a progressive in his seat.  Its a waste of time arguing this point.  Lets see it happen.