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Ka-pi96 said:
vivster said:
EricHiggin said:

The smartest/most efficient of us, are a tiny minority. I'd think catering to them wouldn't be the worst idea. Give them more resources and keep them more free of politics, within reason of course. The things that the majority of that minority typically end up doing for everyone are worth it.

2 Points.

1. Efficiency is always at the cost of human lives. Humans aren't built for efficiency and top efficiency will always cost lives. That's why humanity only works with a bunch of compromises. Like democracy, which is one of the least efficient forms of government, because it's just a compromise.

2. There is no evidence in the last 20000 years to support that the elites will do anything to properly advance or even handle humanity. In fact there is plenty of evidence against it, especially in the US. A meritocracy does not work and will not ever work. At least not if your goal is to bring a good life to a majority of people.

We already know that the Republicans have no interest to better the lives of the majority.

1. Not always. Compare European and American work ethic. Europeans are focused on getting shit done and going home when it's time to clock out. Americans put in 60+ hour weeks to look busy. Europeans get the same amount done in less time, they're more efficient and they also have more free time (and therefore better lives) as a result.

That's also an issue with hourly pay. You're typically paid on quantity of work, rather than quality.

2. A meritocracy absolutely does work. Western Europe is probably the most meritocratic place in the world and it also has the highest living standards and happiest people in the world. Not a coincidence.

Plus I'd argue that to be meritocratic you need a number of "socialist" policies in order to give everybody the opportunity to prove their worth. Those opportunities (and the fact there would be socialist policies in place even for people who couldn't make the most of them for whatever reason) would give a better life to the majority of people.

1. Those are some really dangerous stereotypes. What you describe has nothing to do with work ethics. Getting more done in fewer hours is not a sign of great ethics but a symptom of having to work fewer hours. There are countless studies proving that work efficiency increases with fewer work hours. Europeans have strong worker protection and lots of vacation and sick times. They are also required by law to work less. They get more done in fewer hours because they have to work fewer hours and as such have the ability and motivation to work efficiently.

US workers do not have that luxury. They are mostly paid by the hour. They do not have a social safety net, which increases stress and anxiety. So they naturally benefit from working less efficiently to not kill themselves and to get more money. They're also overall less educated, so some jobs that require good thinkers or skilled workers have to be done by lesser skilled workers. Also not their fault, but a mere symptom.

Don't forget that US citizens are also just humans and given the same circumstances they will perform just as well as European humans. Believing anything else borders on racism.

2. I'd argue a social safety net and a meritocracy do not mix. Unless that safety net is based on merit, whit it is absolutely not in Europe. I reject that western Europe operates in a meritocracy. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much incompetence among the elites.



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It's kinda sad when Republicans claim that Democrats want to rule only via courts when all the GOP has been doing is packing courts with their judges. The 4 years Trump was president is gonna damage the country for decades. All because the US can't properly democracy.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

vivster said:

It's kinda sad when Republicans claim that Democrats want to rule only via courts when all the GOP has been doing is packing courts with their judges. The 4 years Trump was president is gonna damage the country for decades. All because the US can't properly democracy.

Yet wants to export democracy for decades now...



Bofferbrauer2 said:
vivster said:

It's kinda sad when Republicans claim that Democrats want to rule only via courts when all the GOP has been doing is packing courts with their judges. The 4 years Trump was president is gonna damage the country for decades. All because the US can't properly democracy.

Yet wants to export democracy for decades now...

It actually seems that they have been successful with that as well. The problem is that they're not bringing actual democracy and only their brand of democracy, which as we know, is not democracy at all. Looks like the countries the US invaded are now just as bad or worse off than the US.

Remember when the US invaded Germany to bring us democracy? Now we have almost a million COVID cases. Coincidence? I think not.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

While the internet is all worked up about Kyle Rittenhouse posting bail, I'd like to say again that cash bail is a terrible system that should be abolished. If someone is truly a danger, they should not be allowed to get out of holding just because they have money. If not, all you are really doing is imposing a system of discrimination on low income individuals, which often traps them into either spending time in prison despite being no risk to society (without being found guilty); or pushes them to rely on bail bonds which again can impose an exorbitant extralegal fine on an individual regardless of guilt. Our court systems should not rely on a system which is inextricable from income discrimination as a means of insuring individuals show up to their court date. The penalty to our fundamental freedoms is too great. We cannot both stand by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" and utilizing this discriminatory system.



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The perfect encapsulation of the Republican platform. "We're winning when the libs are mad". It's not about progress, it's not about improvement, it's just about being contrarian. With that attitude even committing high crimes against the country is a positive. Imagine BLM protestors saying "The cops are arresting us, so we're obviously doing something right."

Just think about this. There is a politician out there who proudly proclaims that doing high crimes is the correct thing to do and he is being praised by 70 million citizens for it. There are millions of people out there who want this. 70 million people are voting against democracy while complaining about voter fraud.

Last edited by vivster - on 21 November 2020

If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

Yeah you are right vivster. Lindsey Graham has no balls. He is just a trump shrill who went from anti trump 4 years ago to trump ball massager in early 2017. I'm having a hard time figuring out who is the biggest kiss ass... Ted Cruz or Lindsey Graham. Looks like Rubio is semi growing a pair of balls now.

What's crazy is that I almost respect Mitt Romney most out of the republicans now and I don't really like mormons that much. He at least has the balls to stand up to trump. Oh Ben Sasse has been real critical of trump lately. Perhaps he is trying to save the gop from the dumpster fire that trump is leading the entire party into.

Edit- I take that back about Rubio.  He is still a little bitch.

Last edited by sethnintendo - on 21 November 2020

vivster said:

The perfect encapsulation of the Republican platform. "We're winning when the libs are mad". It's not about progress, it's not about improvement, it's just about being contrarian. With that attitude even committing high crimes against the country is a positive. Imagine BLM protestors saying "The cops are arresting us, so we're obviously doing something right."

Just think about this. There is a politician out there who proudly proclaims that doing high crimes is the correct thing to do and he is being praised by 70 million citizens for it. There are millions of people out there who want this. 70 million people are voting against democracy while complaining about voter fraud.

Well, it's like progressives vs regressives. Liberals want change for the better. Republicans wanna go back to how it was in the 50's.



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Runa216 said:
vivster said:

The perfect encapsulation of the Republican platform. "We're winning when the libs are mad". It's not about progress, it's not about improvement, it's just about being contrarian. With that attitude even committing high crimes against the country is a positive. Imagine BLM protestors saying "The cops are arresting us, so we're obviously doing something right."

Just think about this. There is a politician out there who proudly proclaims that doing high crimes is the correct thing to do and he is being praised by 70 million citizens for it. There are millions of people out there who want this. 70 million people are voting against democracy while complaining about voter fraud.

Well, it's like progressives vs regressives. Liberals want change for the better. Republicans wanna go back to how it was in the 50's.

Yeah, I know.

The big question I'm asking myself is it the 1950's or 1850's they want to go back to...



sundin13 said:
While the internet is all worked up about Kyle Rittenhouse posting bail, I'd like to say again that cash bail is a terrible system that should be abolished. If someone is truly a danger, they should not be allowed to get out of holding just because they have money. If not, all you are really doing is imposing a system of discrimination on low income individuals, which often traps them into either spending time in prison despite being no risk to society (without being found guilty); or pushes them to rely on bail bonds which again can impose an exorbitant extralegal fine on an individual regardless of guilt. Our court systems should not rely on a system which is inextricable from income discrimination as a means of insuring individuals show up to their court date. The penalty to our fundamental freedoms is too great. We cannot both stand by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty" and utilizing this discriminatory system.

I have no inherent problem with Kyle Rittenhouse making bail. However, over the last few month I was helping a professor with a research project about bail abuses in the US. There are people who have served months in prison over things like traffic violations.