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iron_megalith said:
sundin13 said:

The rate of mail-in voter fraud is low even though about half of US States allow individuals to vote by mail without providing any reason. Many of these states are Republican states. In Oregon, the first state to adopt a universal vote by mail system, there have only been 15 cases of voter fraud identified over 19 years. That is not a volume worth killing people for.

There is no reason for this to be controversial, however there is every reason that we should have a system which is able to handle a large volume of mail in voting ballots safely and securely. We are at more risk if we don't take steps to prepare. In 2016, almost a quarter of all ballots were cast through the mail and this will increase in 2020 without any changes to existing law. Again, there is simply no argument in favor of gimping the Postal Service to harm mail-in voting. All that accomplishes is making our voting systems less secure.

And again, we should not be asking people to weigh decisions about their health and the health of those around them in order to vote. Yes, other things carry risk sometimes (however we shouldn't really be comparing other nebulous risks to a virus which will likely have killed over 200k Americans by election day...), however, again, voting is the most fundamental right in a functioning democracy. We should seek to remove barriers to ensure that those who wish to vote are able to do so. Again, "don't put up hurdles for voting" shouldn't be a controversial statement.

As for your last statement, what is the purpose of even writing that if you aren't going to make an argument?

I said my point that the problem is them encouraging more people to do mail-in voting even with no compelling reason to do so. But it seems that you have made up your mind that there's nothing we can do to prevent getting infected while still functioning properly in our daily lives. I just don't like how frozen in fear we are with this pandemic.

Now with regards to your questions as to why I brought that up and don't want to make an argument, is because I find your statement ludicrous but don't want to argue. I'm free to disagree with that statement of yours. In all honesty, you keep replying to me to start an argument when I'm not really interested in playing your game.

We can all have different point of views here and I can respect that. However, I'll be honest as to why I'm sick of arguing in this thread. It sickens me that people were willing to justify Antifa and BLM's cause and bad behavior and at the same time label Trump as a fascist. That's severely unreasonable for me and I don't want any part of that.

I'll still engage in a light discussion. I believe I'm free to post here as long as it is on topic and as long as I am not breaking any rules.

It doesn't matter if people are "encouraged". It is going to happen. As such, we need to ensure that our postal system is prepared for it. Further, if states believe that it will help prevent additional deaths, I see no reason why we shouldn't allow expanded mail-in voting. Again, there is a distinction between "restricting protest" and "expanding mail-in voting" in that one of them restricts constitutional rights while the other protects them. As such, it should not be baffling that states are willing to do one and not the other.

Also, while I don't think you did anything wrong in this discussion, if you were to antagonize without bringing arguments that may be considered trolling and may get you a thread ban. Again, not saying you did anything wrong here, just making sure you are aware that the rules of this thread are a little different than the overall forum rules.



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sundin13 said:
iron_megalith said:

I said my point that the problem is them encouraging more people to do mail-in voting even with no compelling reason to do so. But it seems that you have made up your mind that there's nothing we can do to prevent getting infected while still functioning properly in our daily lives. I just don't like how frozen in fear we are with this pandemic.

Now with regards to your questions as to why I brought that up and don't want to make an argument, is because I find your statement ludicrous but don't want to argue. I'm free to disagree with that statement of yours. In all honesty, you keep replying to me to start an argument when I'm not really interested in playing your game.

We can all have different point of views here and I can respect that. However, I'll be honest as to why I'm sick of arguing in this thread. It sickens me that people were willing to justify Antifa and BLM's cause and bad behavior and at the same time label Trump as a fascist. That's severely unreasonable for me and I don't want any part of that.

I'll still engage in a light discussion. I believe I'm free to post here as long as it is on topic and as long as I am not breaking any rules.

It doesn't matter if people are "encouraged". It is going to happen. As such, we need to ensure that our postal system is prepared for it. Further, if states believe that it will help prevent additional deaths, I see no reason why we shouldn't allow expanded mail-in voting. Again, there is a distinction between "restricting protest" and "expanding mail-in voting" in that one of them restricts constitutional rights while the other protects them.

Also, while I don't think you did anything wrong in this discussion, if you were to antagonize without bringing arguments that may be considered trolling and may get you a thread ban. Again, not saying you did anything wrong here, just making sure you are aware that the rules of this thread are a little different than the overall forum rules.

Agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying but I would argue that my posts, which are my opinion, are not inflammatory. If the moderators think it is and I deserve a ban hammer dropped on me then so be it. I'll completely stay away from these threads.

Last edited by iron_megalith - on 15 August 2020

sundin13 said:
Snoopy said:

Ah yes, I guess you never went to the grocery store, the convenient store, laundromat, postal office, ect. You just stayed home by yourself playing with your legos all day.

I personally will likely not be utilizing mail-in voting. My grandparents on the other hand haven't been going out. We have family delivering them groceries (leaving them outside the door) so they don't have to risk their health. One of the primary mail-in voting populations is the elderly, which makes the fact that the Republicans are suddenly waging a war against it all the more baffling.

Additional populations who tend to vote by mail include disabled individuals, who likely haven't been spending significant amounts of time in protests, and the military population, who also likely haven't been spending significant amounts of time at protests.

Because they know it can be easily tampered with. Also, why not drive your grandparents to vote? Your family seems to be willing to drive and deliver multiple things for them. I'm sure they can pick them up if they cared so much about them and want them to vote. And again, it's not just protests, but basic things you still have to do.

Last edited by Snoopy - on 15 August 2020

Torillian said:
Snoopy said:

Ah yes, I guess you never went to the grocery store, the convenient store, laundromat, postal office, ect. You just stayed home by yourself playing with your legos all day.

If we had a national event in which every registered voter is supposed to go to our local walmart on the same day I'd say a pandemic is probably not the best time for it and we should maximize ordering online. And that's a walmart with a massive amount of room to keep more people socially distant. Don't know if you've been to vote in the US but often there's quite a line and crowd depending on when exactly you go with notably less room than you r average grocery or convenience store. 

You don't have to go at the same time. Going by history, about half the people in your area isn't even going to vote anyways. We should focus on getting more polling places open in heavily dense population or perhaps extend the time we can vote. We don't want mail in votes because of fraud which undermines the election and you know it.



Snoopy said:
Torillian said:

If we had a national event in which every registered voter is supposed to go to our local walmart on the same day I'd say a pandemic is probably not the best time for it and we should maximize ordering online. And that's a walmart with a massive amount of room to keep more people socially distant. Don't know if you've been to vote in the US but often there's quite a line and crowd depending on when exactly you go with notably less room than you r average grocery or convenience store. 

You don't have to go at the same time. Going by history, about half the people in your area isn't even going to vote anyways. We should focus on getting more polling places open in heavily dense population or perhaps extend the time we can vote. We don't want mail in votes because of fraud which undermines the election and you know it.

I do not "know it" so I would suggest you bring more than an appeal to "common sense" for your claim. In recent elections as many as 20% of the ballots cast were either absentee or mail-in. You have not presented any reason that increasing this would increase fraud beyond what the system can deal with when it's 20%.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/17/eavs-deep-dive-early-absentee-and-mail-voting-data-statutory-overview



...

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Snoopy said:
sundin13 said:

I personally will likely not be utilizing mail-in voting. My grandparents on the other hand haven't been going out. We have family delivering them groceries (leaving them outside the door) so they don't have to risk their health. One of the primary mail-in voting populations is the elderly, which makes the fact that the Republicans are suddenly waging a war against it all the more baffling.

Additional populations who tend to vote by mail include disabled individuals, who likely haven't been spending significant amounts of time in protests, and the military population, who also likely haven't been spending significant amounts of time at protests.

Because they know it can be easily tampered with. Also, why not drive your grandparents to vote? Your family seems to be willing to drive and deliver multiple things for them. I'm sure they can pick them up if they cared so much about them and want them to vote. And again, it's not just protests, but basic things you still have to do.

...what?

The issue is not and never has been regarding transportation. The issue is going to a polling place which does not require individuals to wear masks and waiting in a line next to these people for potentially several hours depending on where you live.

And again, we already have a quarter of the voting population doing mail in voting, including in many red states. Mail-in voting is not a significant risk. We have been doing it in large numbers for years and it has yet to create any significant issues warranting this reaction.



Quick question regarding the US constitution. Which article, if any, describes the preservation of democracy and its processes like voting? The current government doesn't seem to be very fond of democracy and is trying its best to disassemble it. Just wondering if the Constitution would have something to say about that.

I know Germany's constitution has such an article and we have an extra constitutional court that will go ape shit if someone even thinks about attacking the concept of democracy.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

SOCIAL MEDIA AND BIG TECH ARE SO BIASED AGAINST THE...left?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/facebook-fire-employee-conservative-right-wing-breitbart-charlie-kirk-dimaond-and-silk-a9659301.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/06/business/instagram-biden-trump-algorithm/index.html



Snoopy said:
Nothing can stop the Trump train woot woot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcErHHOLgY

Why do you still support Trump?



jason1637 said:
Snoopy said:
Nothing can stop the Trump train woot woot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZcErHHOLgY

Why do you still support Trump?

A lot of reasons, but the main reason at this point is he isn't actively trying to destroy this country like these "protesters" are. Democrats seems to be supporting these "protestors" and not doing their jobs to stop them. Also, I just look at all of these liberal cities or states like California and see how everyone is fleeing to more conservative areas. Kind of like what Joe Rogan just did by moving to Texas lol