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KLXVER on 08 July 2020
SpokenTruth said:
KLXVER said:

I agree, but we live in such a sensitive time right now. People get sidetracked too easy. 

Yes we want equality for everyone!.....THE GOLDEN GIRLS DID WHAT?!!!

Perfect example.    Did African Americans, BLM or Antif-Fa ask for that?  No, they didn't.  But did you know that? 

You are now actually siding with the 3 above groups without even realizing it.  None of them wanted or had anything to do with that episode being removed and in fact are now bothered that corporate America is using their movements to overbalance. 

Again, talk to the actual people.  Stop listening to 2nd and 3rd party filters.  They apply their own agendas before it reaches your ears. 

Well I dont think we should make it seem like the BLM movement, Antifa and all African Americans are the one and the same. Many African Americans dont support them. Im sure there are many good people in BLM and Antifa, but they have a problem with radicals. Just like every other group ever created. 



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KLXVER on 08 July 2020
SpokenTruth said:
KLXVER said:

Well I dont think we should make it seem like the BLM movement, Antifa and all African Americans are the one and the same. Im sure there are many good people in BLM and Antifa, but they have a problem with radicals. Just like every other group ever created. 

TALK TO THEM.  If your first reaction is radicals then you've not talked to a damn one of them. 

You talk about the MSM and or left wing media spinning stuff but won't take your own damn advice and listen to the actual sources.  If you despise media filtering so damn much, why don't you take 5 damn minutes to even talk to one of the actual people pouring their heart and soul into making change for themselves and their kids?

Are you afraid of what they'll say?  Are you worried they might actually have valid points?  Are you nervous about being wrong?  Fuck all of that.  Because our ego has enabled hate and death.

Check your PMs.

Now Im feeling that you are being a bit unfair. I can see what the BLM and Antifa have caused. Good and bad.

Im not a reporter. Im not going to fly to the US and talk to people. If there are anyone here, then I would love to hear from them.

I dont like the KKK for example because I have seen what they have done from afar. I have no interest in meeting anyone in that shitty organization. Not comparing BLM or Antifa to the KKK. Im just saying that I can take in information about a group of people without being directly involved.

Also Im not a republican, so you dont need to "save" me. Im not a hateful person at all. I just have a different opinion based on what I have seen and heard.



KLXVER on 08 July 2020
SpokenTruth said:
KLXVER said:

Now Im feeling that you are being a bit unfair. I can see what the BLM and Antifa have caused. Good and bad.

Im not a reporter. Im not going to fly to the US and talk to people. If there are anyone here, then I would love to hear from them.

I dont like the KKK for example because I have seen what they have done from afar. I have no interest in meeting anyone in that shitty organization. Not comparing BLM or Antifa to the KKK. Im just saying that I can take in information about a group of people without being directly involved.

Also Im not a republican, so you dont need to "save" me. Im not a hateful person at all. I just have a different opinion based on what I have seen and heard.

Oh...Oh.  My friend, so much to ask.

1. Why present a body of knowledge that you do not experience....from either side?

2. Why claim no position even though your public opinions on here aligns 1:1 with one of our parties?

3. What you have seen and heard has been filtered though whatever media you most align with.  If I or an African American told you A and your media told you B, who are you going to believe from 7,000 Km away?

Well I have listened to many people. I have read opinions of many people. Both inside and outside of BLM and Antifa. Both people on the right, the left and anyone in between. I always come back to a few people. Larry Elder, Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum and a few more. To me they make the most sense. They are great at communicating their opinions and seem very fair. I mean Candace Owens can go a bit overboard at times I agree, but I think her core message is something worth listening to. 



KLXVER on 08 July 2020
SpokenTruth said:
KLXVER said:

Well I have listened to many people. I have read opinions of many people. Both inside and outside of BLM and Antifa. Both people on the right, the left and anyone in between. I always come back to a few people. Larry Elder, Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum and a few more. To me they make the most sense. They are great at communicating their opinions and seem very fair. I mean Candace Owens can go a bit overboard at times I agree, but I think her core message is something worth listening to. 

Candace Owens is an opportunist.  She was not always a Republican but saw a business market opportunity and exploited it.  What is that market you ask?  Simply stated it's a counter-voice.  A pedestal that can be raised by Republicans to say, "See, here is a black person that agrees with us when 39,999,999 of you other blacks are wrong and we're going to make her rich for it even if we would have enslaved her ancestors....and her if it was still legal but (shhhhhh) don't let her know that."

That ignorance aside, it still does't address my points.  Have you talked to any of them?  A single God damned person?  You are basically saying that the majority of 40 million fucking people (people A) are wrong about feeling the way they feel and that the very people that cannot ever in their lives feel that way (people B) are telling people A how they can feel. The arrogance is off the damn charts for one group to tell another what they feel or how they feel or what oppresses them.


On a personal note, I reached out to you via PM.  Gave you a personal fact about me and you come back with this shit?  And you wonder why we riot.  You obviously listened to nobody and I'm saddened I gave you a personal empathetic ear to help you. I don't even care if you were Lebensborn* or not. I don't know or care but I still wanted to give you a chance. How disheartening to see that you do not for others.

*Let's see how many know your history. Do you?

I have never said they are wrong about how they feel. But you certainly seem to think my feelings are wrong. I dont like this conversation at all. You make me out like Im a bad person for not agreeing with you. Like you hover above me and reach a helping hand to me, a dirty peasant, who cant think for himself. 

Its always the same thing. You preach that we should all be equal, but as soon as someone doesnt see something your way, they are somehow lesser people and cant be helped. Im done. Shame on you.



sundin13 on 08 July 2020
KLXVER said:

Well I have listened to many people. I have read opinions of many people. Both inside and outside of BLM and Antifa. Both people on the right, the left and anyone in between. I always come back to a few people. Larry Elder, Candace Owens, Brandon Tatum and a few more. To me they make the most sense. They are great at communicating their opinions and seem very fair. I mean Candace Owens can go a bit overboard at times I agree, but I think her core message is something worth listening to. 

I feel like your support for Candace Owens is one of those things that you just don't tell people. It just makes you look bad to say you are "always coming back" to a shameless grifter and propagandist. She is possibly the single worst person you could be getting information from about just about anything. The little I've seen of Brandon Tatum and his video with fake college and real propaganda outfit "PragerU" indicates to me that he isn't much better. 



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Machiavellian on 08 July 2020
KLXVER said:
sundin13 said:

What I want is for us to fix the systems which are home to racist practices such as the policing system and the criminal justice system, and for us to provide funding for poor communities in order to ensure that they are given equal opportunities in life. Even when we move forward from our racist practices in the past, the impacts still remain and until we address both the broken, racist systems, and the systems rife for abuse that still exist today, and the consequences of those racist systems and the systems that we have already taken steps to dismantling, we do not have true racial equality and justice and the work is not over.

Your work will never be over. Because by the time anything gets fixed, you have created 20 other issues. Its become a career for people to complain at this point and they dont want to lose their career. So it will never be over.

This is the classic do nothing stance.  Oh the problem is hard so why ever do anything.  You worry about the few so you can dismiss the many.



LurkerJ on 08 July 2020

I watched some of this debate the other day. Am I a Candace Owens fan? No. Do I support her? No. Do my views align with her? No. Does that mean everything she says is wrong and laughable? No. At least, no more laughable than the reporters on CNN, MSNBC or Fox news, who are supposed to be professionally trained reporters.

I listen to everyone and I manage to agree and disagree with everyone. If anything, My views are aligned with the likes of Kyle, Krystal and Jeremy Scahill, all lefties. But I still have room to listen to Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and many others on the right, and like it or not, they do bring up great and challenging counter arguments as well as weak ones, that's why they have massive audience. 

"Ew how dare you listen to these people, I can't hear them over the sound of my CNN" crowd couldn't be more ironic if they tried. 



sundin13 on 08 July 2020
LurkerJ said:

I watched some of this debate the other day. Am I a Candace Owens fan? No. Do I support her? No. Do my views align with her? No. Does that mean everything she says is wrong and laughable? No. At least, no more laughable than the reporters on CNN, MSNBC or Fox news, who are supposed to be professionally trained reporters.

I listen to everyone and I manage to agree and disagree with everyone. If anything, My views are aligned with the likes of Kyle, Krystal and Jeremy Scahill, all lefties. But I still have room to listen to Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and many others on the right, and like it or not, they do bring up great and challenging counter arguments as well as weak ones, that's why they have massive audience. 

"Ew how dare you listen to these people, I can't hear them over the sound of my CNN" crowd couldn't be more ironic if they tried. 

My respect for Kyle Kulinski and Krystal Ball and Ben Shapiro isn't much higher than my respect for Candace Owens, but at least I don't find their frequent idiocy to be quite as dangerous as Candace Owens'.

And by the way, there are a ton of idiots who have a large audience. That doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that people buy what they are selling, which is more often some flavor of Kool-Aid than strong arguments. 

PS: I wouldn't wish an hour long clip of Candace Owens on my worst enemy...



LurkerJ on 08 July 2020
sundin13 said:
LurkerJ said:

I watched some of this debate the other day. Am I a Candace Owens fan? No. Do I support her? No. Do my views align with her? No. Does that mean everything she says is wrong and laughable? No. At least, no more laughable than the reporters on CNN, MSNBC or Fox news, who are supposed to be professionally trained reporters.

I listen to everyone and I manage to agree and disagree with everyone. If anything, My views are aligned with the likes of Kyle, Krystal and Jeremy Scahill, all lefties. But I still have room to listen to Ben Shapiro, Steven Crowder and many others on the right, and like it or not, they do bring up great and challenging counter arguments as well as weak ones, that's why they have massive audience. 

"Ew how dare you listen to these people, I can't hear them over the sound of my CNN" crowd couldn't be more ironic if they tried. 

My respect for Kyle Kulinski and Krystal Ball and Ben Shapiro isn't much higher than my respect for Candace Owens, but at least I don't find their frequent idiocy to be quite as dangerous as Candace Owens'.

And by the way, there are a ton of idiots who have a large audience. That doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that people buy what they are selling, which is more often some flavor of Kool-Aid than strong arguments. 

I know,CNN and MSNBC, and Fox are perfect examples of that as I clearly mentioned in my post. And you think some irrelevant youtuber is more dangerous than these channels? Don't make me laugh. 

As for your respect, or lack of, doesn't mean much when you haven't told us what pieces of news you read or watch. It's easy to be dismissive but in the end, one way or another, what you watch or read is just as easy to dismiss. 



sundin13 on 08 July 2020
LurkerJ said:
sundin13 said:

My respect for Kyle Kulinski and Krystal Ball and Ben Shapiro isn't much higher than my respect for Candace Owens, but at least I don't find their frequent idiocy to be quite as dangerous as Candace Owens'.

And by the way, there are a ton of idiots who have a large audience. That doesn't prove anything. All it proves is that people buy what they are selling, which is more often some flavor of Kool-Aid than strong arguments. 

I know,CNN and MSNBC, and Fox are perfect examples of that as I clearly mentioned in my post. And you think some irrelevant youtuber is more dangerous than these channels? Don't make me laugh. 

As for your respect, or lack of, doesn't mean much when you haven't told us what pieces of news you read or watch. It's easy to be dismissive but in the end, one way or another, what you watch or read is just as easy to dismiss. 

I don't think I said that I feel Candace Owens is more dangerous than CNN/MSNBC/FOX. I would appreciate if you didn't put words in my mouth. That would be great.

As for what pieces of news I read/watch, I typically don't listen to any opinion pundits. This type of punditry is only valuable when an individual demonstrates consistently that they speak in good faith and their opinions are supported by evidence that they are fairly portraying. Of the individuals listed who I am familiar with, none of them have sufficiently demonstrated this. As such, I try to form my own opinions based not on the opinions of others, but on the evidence itself. Depending on the specific subject we are talking about, I will often seek out scientific studies which provide empirical evidence regarding this subject as opposed to listening to someone's anecdotal, half-formed opinions which have been filtered through the lens of whatever ideology they are trying to sell. 

But I think that is all largely besides the point. An individual's idiotic and dangerous takes can be criticized without holding up another individual whose takes are better. Even in a world where everyone is wrong, reality does not change. Even in a world where everyone is wrong, Candace Owens does not suddenly gain merit.