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George Floyd was an innocent African-American, murdered by police brutality. The riots are street justice and pay back for police brutality. How long will the riots last? The police offer who knelt on George Floyd's neck has been charged with murder. #GeorgeFloyd #ICan'tBreathe

Last edited by Phoenix20 - on 29 May 2020

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Phoenix20 said:

George Floyd was an innocent African-American, murdered by police brutality. The riots are street justice and pay back for police brutality. How long will the riots last? The police offer who knelt on George Floyd's neck has been charged with murder. #GeorgeFloyd #ICan'tBreathe

Street justices isnt destroying peoples cars or  business. 



SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

"But only the black ones.  She didn't stab any of the white rioters"

Looks to me like she spared plenty black participants too...

Did I say she stabbed every black person that passed her?

No. I simply wanted to provide further information for anyone who's reading your post and potentially comes away with an inaccurate impression...

By the way, in your post, you mentioned the woman in the wheelchair was pretending to be disabled: how do we know this?

Phoenix20 said:
George Floyd was an innocent African-American, murdered by police brutality. The riots are street justice and pay back for police brutality. How long will the riots last? Will the 4 cops be charged for the murder of George Floyd?

"The riots are street justice and pay back for police brutality."

>Looks to be just crime inflicted on innocent parties that had nothing to do with the event.

"Will the 4 cops be charged for the murder of George Floyd?"

>I don't think it will be murder. Seems too extreme of a charge: looks to be a manslaughter charge. That's my non-lawyer opinion so take with a pinch of salt.

In related news, preliminary findings in George Floyd's autopsy showed no asphyxia or strangulation.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf



https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/derek-chauvin-arrested-george-floyd-death-minneapolis-police-officer/
The officer in the video kneeling on George Floyd's neck has been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.



Phoenix20 said:

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2020/05/29/derek-chauvin-arrested-george-floyd-death-minneapolis-police-officer/
The officer in the video kneeling on George Floyd's neck has been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter.

I stand corrected. They're the lawyers, not me.



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Rioting does change things so opposing rioting because you think it's fruitless is wrong.

I don't see why police stations/cars aren't legitimate targets of protest/arson and if riot police are ready for a riot they should be able to handle the odd petrol bomb.

Looting hurts the cause and shouldn't be happening if local businesses are paying protection to the people who are actually able to protect their businesses.

I don't get why every incident of police brutality against a black person is racialised. I mean, I do get it but sometimes there are times when it's just because some/most police officers are cunts. Look at the protests in France. You don't have to be black to be beaten or murdered by police officers.

My own (white) city had police brutality riots in the 80s. No looting because of protection money. The police would go to a poor part of town and if any teenager gave them backchat or disrespected them then 6-8 grown men would put kids in the back of the van and beat the shit out of them without consequence.

The rioting should be about letting them know that it will cost them more $$$$ if they don't change their ways. The looting needs to stop.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

Pyro as Bill said:
Rioting does change things so opposing rioting because you think it's fruitless is wrong.

I don't see why police stations/cars aren't legitimate targets of protest/arson and if riot police are ready for a riot they should be able to handle the odd petrol bomb.

Looting hurts the cause and shouldn't be happening if local businesses are paying protection to the people who are actually able to protect their businesses.

I don't get why every incident of police brutality against a black person is racialised. I mean, I do get it but sometimes there are times when it's just because some/most police officers are cunts. Look at the protests in France. You don't have to be black to be beaten or murdered by police officers.

My own (white) city had police brutality riots in the 80s. No looting because of protection money. The police would go to a poor part of town and if any teenager gave them backchat or disrespected them then 6-8 grown men would put kids in the back of the van and beat the shit out of them without consequence.

The rioting should be about letting them know that it will cost them more $$$$ if they don't change their ways. The looting needs to stop.

You can't use logic to explain anger. It isn't about logic. It isn't about saying "How do I best affect change?". It is the cries of the voiceless boiling over. While we can very much criticize these actions, we must acknowledge that "riots do not develop out of thin air" (MLK) and we need to address these causes instead of just attacking those who are rightfully angry.

I will also say that I have an issue with the idea that police brutality is an issue with the police officers. I don't believe it is. This isn't one bad apple, or several bad apples, or dozens of bad apples, it is a poisoned orchard. It is the system itself which creates this injustice, not individual action. We don't just need to throw every cop who crosses a line in jail, we need to fundamentally change our policing systems. It is the system itself that is broken and these injustices will never be corrected if we keep treating the symptom as if it was the cause.

PS: These were largely just general things that I wanted to say as a result of your post, not necessary direct rebuttals to points you had made.



sundin13 said:
Pyro as Bill said:
Rioting does change things so opposing rioting because you think it's fruitless is wrong.

I don't see why police stations/cars aren't legitimate targets of protest/arson and if riot police are ready for a riot they should be able to handle the odd petrol bomb.

Looting hurts the cause and shouldn't be happening if local businesses are paying protection to the people who are actually able to protect their businesses.

I don't get why every incident of police brutality against a black person is racialised. I mean, I do get it but sometimes there are times when it's just because some/most police officers are cunts. Look at the protests in France. You don't have to be black to be beaten or murdered by police officers.

My own (white) city had police brutality riots in the 80s. No looting because of protection money. The police would go to a poor part of town and if any teenager gave them backchat or disrespected them then 6-8 grown men would put kids in the back of the van and beat the shit out of them without consequence.

The rioting should be about letting them know that it will cost them more $$$$ if they don't change their ways. The looting needs to stop.

You can't use logic to explain anger. It isn't about logic. It isn't about saying "How do I best affect change?". It is the cries of the voiceless boiling over. While we can very much criticize these actions, we must acknowledge that "riots do not develop out of thin air" (MLK) and we need to address these causes instead of just attacking those who are rightfully angry.

I will also say that I have an issue with the idea that police brutality is an issue with the police officers. I don't believe it is. This isn't one bad apple, or several bad apples, or dozens of bad apples, it is a poisoned orchard. It is the system itself which creates this injustice, not individual action. We don't just need to throw every cop who crosses a line in jail, we need to fundamentally change our policing systems. It is the system itself that is broken and these injustices will never be corrected if we keep treating the symptom as if it was the cause.

PS: These were largely just general things that I wanted to say as a result of your post, not necessary direct rebuttals to points you had made.

Policing is supposed to be by consent so take their budget and give it to the local gangsters if that's what it takes for the looting to stop and the public to not have to worry about being murdered by state officials.

Local gangsters made up most early police forces because the state realised how much power they could get by putting them on the payroll. I've had enough police and gangster dealings to know what sort of person becomes a police officer (there are exceptions) and the two aren't as different as they'd like to think.



Nov 2016 - NES outsells PS1 (JP)

Don't Play Stationary 4 ever. Switch!

SpokenTruth said:
KLAMarine said:

1). By the way, in your post, you mentioned the woman in the wheelchair was pretending to be disabled: how do we know this?

2). In related news, preliminary findings in George Floyd's autopsy showed no asphyxia or strangulation.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6933246/Derek-Chauvin-Complaint.pdf

1). Video evidence shows her later walking around without the need for the high end motor powered wheelchair. While it's possible she may still be partially ambulatory despite an infirmity, it seems a little strange that she would eventually start walking around during the middle of a riot where she could have easily been injured (and she was already assaulted as seen in the earlier video) and/or her expensive wheelchair would have been stolen (it was in view of the camera footage).

2). Do you know what else it said in the very next paragraph? "Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous."  I'm adding this because I simply wanted to provide further information for anyone who's reading your post and potentially comes away with an inaccurate impression.

1) Care to provide this video? I'd like to watch it.

2) My post included a link, it's right there for people to read through right after the "In related news, preliminary findings...no asphyxia or strangulation", it's hard to miss. A plethora of information that could not be copy-pasted, unfortunately so best bet is for people to click the link themselves.

I cannot say the same for your post about stabbings: no link for further information. For whatever reason, there was no mention of the objects thrown at the woman's head or the beatings to her head but certainly a mention of her stabbing. It paints an incomplete picture so I knew then and there I just had to get some video footage for people to be able to watch rather than learn about this stabbing incident secondhand.

I'm actually hesitant to call it a stabbing, she never managed to stab anyone based on the videos I watched. She does swing it at empty air before getting blasted with fire extinguisher and getting hit in the head with objects. You called it a stabbing regardless, perhaps you have videos of these successful stabbings?



KLAMarine said:
Otter said:

>On the bit about statistics, ever heard of 'correlation does not equal causation'?

"Regarding the second part, so you think this person is a genuine protestor? Not everything has to be argument, to me and many others, his demeanor and prep seems way off, make a judgement call for yourself."

>I really don't know and who gives a shit? He smashed some windows and then pissed off. Why should anyone besides that store honestly care!?

"But you'll notice that he stands alone out like a sore thumb in all the footage you'll see."

>Yeah, I think the umbrella does that.

"The man wore clean, full-body coverings. He had a large umbrella to shelter him from overhead surveillance. He had one job. He brought a hammer. He was calm & methodical. He acted, then exited, avoiding to engage." Like its just strange and reason for suspicion"

>Still proves nothing beyond his being suspicious.

"Proves". No one is proving anything in this discussion. You ridiculed the idea that this could be an undercover officer.

If police or any other agency are using agents to fuel unrest, participate riots etc. That's in the public interests and it's the only reason we are looking at this video.

"ever heard of 'correlation does not equal causation'?"

Of course but you're not providing any alternate cause for the disparity whilst there's been strong and long documentation of racism in  the police force & the US in general.

Just last week this woman went viral hysterically pretending to be in danger whilst using the mans' race as a weapon against him, because she belives him being "African American" will trigger a more imminent and threatening response from the police.

And at the very least we can say the "cause" is the action of the police and there are many documentated cases, 3 from the last week alone, where they kill unarmed people through reckless actions. They were all black but that doesn't even matter, there needs to be accountability.

And honestly you intent of roadblocking these conversations without having any actual believe or stance is also part of the problem. What exactly are you arguing? That racism doesn't exist? I'm personally going to be more selective about how I spend my energy,  so I won't respond to you again but please think long and hard about what your actual stance is before committing to this endless devil's advocacy. 

Last edited by Otter - on 30 May 2020