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Forums - Sony Discussion - PS5 Coming at the End of 2020 According to Analyst: High-Spec Hardware for Under $500

 

Price, SKUs, specs ?

Only Base Model, $399, 9-10TF GPU, 16GB RAM 24 30.00%
 
Only Base Model, $449, 10-12TF GPU, 16GB RAM 13 16.25%
 
Only Base Model, $499, 12-14TF GPU, 24GB RAM 21 26.25%
 
Base Model $399 and PREMIUM $499 specs Ans3 10 12.50%
 
Base Mod $399 / PREM $549, >14TF 24GB RAM 5 6.25%
 
Base Mod $449 / PREM $599, the absolute Elite 7 8.75%
 
Total:80
thismeintiel said:
Otter said:

Ace Combat 7 runs at 1080p on the Xbox One X and there are plenty of Xbox One X games with the exact same pixel count as Pro...It doesn't matter the power of the platform if developers don't want to  optimise or decide to optimise for things outside of resolution. 

I think Pro just needed to be a tad more balanced so we wouldn't see so games like No Mans Sky running slightly worse on the Pro version at 1440p vs the base system 108op. I don't think we've seen this yet with X1X

There was no need to do more with the Pro, though.  While MS has a completely different GPU in it, Sony took the GPU they already had and doubled it.  It allowed them to more than double the performance for a cheaper price, meaning they are most likely making more on the Pro than MS is making on the X.  Selling more of them, too. Remember, these are just mid-gen upgrades.  There job is really just to provide an option for early adopters who wanted a more powerful PS4/XBO, but will most likely move on to next gen much sooner than most.  So, they will be relevant for far less time than the OG systems, and sell a lot less. 

If the PS5 is B/C with the PS4, than the Pro pretty much becomes obsolete, as I'm sure it will offer the same upgrades and will probably be only $100 or so more than the Pro.  The OG PS4 will continue to sell to people with less disposable income, since it will be $200-$250 less than the PS5 and will still receive cross-gen games for the first year or two.  In other words, there wasn't really any reason too spend so much money on R&D and the chipset, if it was just going to sell to a small subset of people for 3-4 years.  MS only did so to have the crown of most powerful system, which really didn't improve their position.

CGI-Quality said:

A 4TB HDD will be nothing to implement (we're talking cheap things here). If it were a 4TB SSD, that would be different. We're also talking a bigger push for digital downloads, prompting larger HDDs.

No, there will not be 32GB consoles next gen, especially not of G6. Out of the question.

And no, $499 will not be the base price. It'll be $399 as I noted, with higher prices for a potential premium model. Aiming for affordability will take precedence over premium features, especially at launch.

I agree with your prediction of 16GB, not 32GB, and Sony aiming for $399.  However, I see very little chance of them putting in a 4TB HDD.  Sony is going to be spending a bunch of money on the other internals (Zen+/2, new Navi tech, 16 GDDR6 + (possibly) 4 GB DDR4 for the OS, maybe better cooling solution), I think they are going to try cutting costs where they can.  I think 2TB is more likely.  Hell, I wouldn't be surprised to see them try to get away with just 1TB, at least in the beginning.

I think the one place they would skimp especially at the start would be the HDD.  It can always be upgraded either by the user or by them when the system parts become cheaper down the road.  You can always delete games and install others.  It's one thing that doesn't give them an edge in power and very few people will call a deal breaker so it makes the most sense to skimp there.  I only ask that they make it easy to swap out so those of us that want more room can throw something UUUUUGE in there.



I am Iron Man

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CGI-Quality said:
Nate4Drake said:
Leak from a member at Beyond3d; same happened when first specs of WiiU were leaked.

""PS5 dev kits in the wild and i've some good news for you
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD""

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-2019.61027/page-34#post-2058510

Holy crap this is exactly the "option3" I put in the Poll...guys I really can't wait for an official announcement !

Outside of the memory (which I suspect will be 20GB total with 4 of LPDDR4 reserved for the OS ~ this is a big deal), I believe most of that (and as I noted: at least a 2TB HDD [not an SSD], Zen 2, Navi, 8-core proc @ around 3GHz). Should be a comfy fit for $399 as well. Not sure about that release date, but the timing of the purported revelation makes sense and would explain their plans to skip E3.

   I was thinking the same, that release date...maybe in Japan only ?  Anyway, I would be more than happy with these kind of specs and a price around $399 !



”Every great dream begins with a dreamer. Always remember, you have within you the strength, the patience, and the passion to reach for the stars to change the world.”

Harriet Tubman.

Nate4Drake said:
Leak from a member at Beyond3d; same happened when first specs of WiiU were leaked.

""PS5 dev kits in the wild and i've some good news for you
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD""

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-2019.61027/page-34#post-2058510

Holy crap this is exactly the "option3" I put in the Poll...guys I really can't wait for an official announcement !

It's fake, you can't do 880GB/s of memory bandwidth (or you can but not in a cost-effective way). The TF number is also likely to high.



6x master league achiever in starcraft2

Beaten Sigrun on God of war mode

Beaten DOOM ultra-nightmare with NO endless ammo-rune, 2x super shotgun and no decoys on ps4 pro.

1-0 against Grubby in Wc3 frozen throne ladder!!

Nate4Drake said:
Leak from a member at Beyond3d; same happened when first specs of WiiU were leaked.

""PS5 dev kits in the wild and i've some good news for you
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD""

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-2019.61027/page-34#post-2058510

Holy crap this is exactly the "option3" I put in the Poll...guys I really can't wait for an official announcement !

GPU is a pipe dream, getting boring hearing it.



CGI-Quality said:
I can't believe some of you think they'll just throw 1TB SSDs in these things, but then, some of you also expect 32GB consoles. :P Also, you can't call anything a 'bottleneck' without knowing the entirety of the technology that's going into the chassis.

Regardless, Pem and I have done our best, so there's not really much else to argue. We'll just wait for the first specs to start being revealed later this year.

Honestly, talking up 4TB 2.5 inch HDDs is just as ridiculous as talking up 1TB SSDs.

Right now on amazon the cheapest 4TB HDD there is $118.

The Cheapest 1TB SSD is $108.

So what I am saying stands. If you consider that OEM pricing will be significantly lower than retail pricing then it will cost them about the same or less in 2020 for a 1TB SSD as it would cost them for a 4TB HDD.

And with regards to the rest of the tech in the system its really not that complicated. Be it 16GB or 20GB of available RAM the issue remains... a 2.5 inch sata drive that will peak at around 150MB/s (and actually less in the real world) is just going to be to slow. Look at the load times now with 5GB systems then imagine how they will be with at least 3 times more RAM. They are going to have to do something about that or not we will be seeing games with like 4 minute plus loading screens.

Only two ways to do that. SSD or HDD + embedded nand flash cache. So basically which ever solution is cheaper and less complicated to implement.

As for RAM, again this is simple. As of 2017 the price of 1GB of GDDR5 was $23 and 1GB of GDDR6 was $26. Again not OEM pricing. The main takeaway here isn't the cost but how similar the prices are; basically GDDR6 ram will cost around 10-20% more than whatever GDDR5 would have cost. At this point its a matter of if they are going for 8 chips of GDDR6 (ala PS4) or 12 chips (XB1X) resulting in 16GB or 24GB respectively. When you lok at it that way it doesn't sound s crazy anymore does it? 32GB is and was always crazy though.



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Trumpstyle said:
Nate4Drake said:
Leak from a member at Beyond3d; same happened when first specs of WiiU were leaked.

""PS5 dev kits in the wild and i've some good news for you
System will be revealed close to E3 2019 in Sony's Special event with some mind-blowing tech demos and a few megatons and a release date for Q1-Q2 2020! The Last of Us Part 2's motion matching in 4K 60fps is a joy to watch!
Specifications:
CPU: 8Core/16Threads at 3.2Ghz (boost) Zen2 (this is the biggest improvement we've ever seen CPU-wise, even bigger than PS2 to PS3)
GPU: Fully NAVI-Based GPU with some AMD's next generation arch features at 12.6tf to 14.2tf (GPU clock still undecided)
Memory: 24GB - 20GB GDDR6 at 880Gb/s - 4GB DDR4 reserved for OS
2tb HDD""

https://forum.beyond3d.com/threads/next-generation-hardware-speculation-with-a-technical-spin-2019.61027/page-34#post-2058510

Holy crap this is exactly the "option3" I put in the Poll...guys I really can't wait for an official announcement !

It's fake, you can't do 880GB/s of memory bandwidth (or you can but not in a cost-effective way). The TF number is also likely to high.

Not that I believe in ay of these rumors.... but you are wrong.

using 11 2GB GDDR6 20Gbs chips in a 352 bit bus gives you exactly 880GB/s of bandwidth. And if they really plan on attaching a 4GB pool of LPDDR4 ram for the OS then they will need some GDDR6 over head for the GPU t use reserved for the OS which means that of the 22GB available 2GB will be reserved for the OS making the OS have a total of 6GB of RAM.

Now question is that is such a convoluted approach more cost effective than just put 24GB f RAM and even using slower and cheaper 16GBs/18Gbs chips while still hitting around 760-800GB/s of bandwidth?

As for the TF number.... 14TF yes is too high but i expect around 12TF.



Honestly, talking up 4TB 2.5 inch HDDs is just as ridiculous as talking up 1TB SSDs.

No, it isn't.

Right now on amazon the cheapest 4TB HDD there is $118.

Doesn't matter. This is mainly about storage and such a hit is nothing like what you'd see from a GPU or RAM. Plus, the option to upgrade later on will also be present. 2TB HDDs (which are dirt cheap) in both machines at launch isn't unrealistic.

The Cheapest 1TB SSD is $108.

Irrelevant. SSDs cost more and will yield less storage in the long run for comparable prices.

So what I am saying stands.

Stand by it, as I will do the same.

If you consider that OEM pricing will be significantly lower than retail pricing then it will cost them about the same or less in 2020 for a 1TB SSD as it would cost them for a 4TB HDD.

Again, irrelevant. Getting an SSD will simply be about speed, but you want more storage as we head towards a stricter digital future. A 2TB HDD is the the most likely option with 4TB (since you and others are hung up on the ceiling I predicted) being the highest case (this should have been obvious, but alas, here we are).

And with regards to the rest of the tech in the system its really not that complicated.

No one claimed it was and I have always said it is a fairly easy concept to grasp.

Be it 16GB or 20GB of available RAM the issue remains... a 2.5 inch sata drive that will peak at around 150MB/s (and actually less in the real world) is just going to be to slow. Look at the load times now with 5GB systems then imagine how they will be with at least 3 times more RAM. They are going to have to do something about that or not we will be seeing games with like 4 minute plus loading screens.

16GB of G6 won't be an issue. That plus 4GB of LPDDR4 isn't an unrealistic scenario.

Only two ways to do that. SSD or HDD + embedded nand flash cache. So basically which ever solution is cheaper and less complicated to implement.

As for RAM, again this is simple. As of 2017 the price of 1GB of GDDR5 was $23 and 1GB of GDDR6 was $26. Again not OEM pricing. The main takeaway here isn't the cost but how similar the prices are; basically GDDR6 ram will cost around 10-20% more than whatever GDDR5 would have cost. At this point its a matter of if they are going for 8 chips of GDDR6 (ala PS4) or 12 chips (XB1X) resulting in 16GB or 24GB respectively. When you lok at it that way it doesn't sound s crazy anymore does it? 32GB is and was always crazy though.

When I look at RAM, it will always be crazy to expect more than you should. All else is largely moot.


 My take.

Fair enough......

For the record My real take on storage isn't even an SSD. I believe it will be some sort of combination solution. like 256GB embedded nand flash and a 2TB upgradeable HDD. You can get a 240GB SSD now for under $30. Means sony and MS can et 240GB worth of nand flash for under $10. 

I just don't see them using only a HDD. And using the above mentioned method ensures that every console has faster nand flash in them and devs can build their games around that knowledge.

 

Robert_Downey_Jr. said: 

I think the one place they would skimp especially at the start would be the HDD.  It can always be upgraded either by the user or by them when the system parts become cheaper down the road.  You can always delete games and install others.  It's one thing that doesn't give them an edge in power and very few people will call a deal breaker so it makes the most sense to skimp there.  I only ask that they make it easy to swap out so those of us that want more room can throw something UUUUUGE in there.

The thing about the HDD is nt even the amount f it that is there. They honestly can get away with anything above 1TB and it won't be the end of the world.

The issue with storage is its speed. Every generation games are  designed primarily for hardware found in consoles. Thats where the bulk f the sales come frm. So consoles basically set the minimum requirements. 

If you give devs 16GB - 20GB of RAM you can bet your last dollar they will find a way to run out of it. If the current transfer speeds of HDDs is what we are taking into next gen can you imagine how long the load times will be? What about streaming in data? And whatever is in the console on day one sets the tone for the next 7 years.

If one cnsle ships with either a cache drive +HDD r just an SSD and the other ships with your good old HDD and nothing else....... trust me when I say one will be better than the other. Noticeably better. 

Last edited by Intrinsic - on 11 February 2019

Intrinsic said:

GDDR5 ram is pretty much impossible. That will ensure a bandwidth bottleneck right out the gate.

Well. Actually it doesn't... DDR2 Ram can have more bandwidth than GDDR6. It really depends how wide you wish to take things.
There comes a point though where it's just cheaper to opt for GDDR6 over GDDR5 due to complexity.

Cerebralbore101 said:

SSD isn't really needed with consoles. They boot up fast enough from regular harddrives. A PC on the other hand can take forever to boot up. 

My Xbox One X might boot up fairly quickly on spinning rust... (Time is all relative.) However, it takes -forever- to load my games library off multiple 4 Terabyte external drives before I can start using anything.
My PC however... Boots up in mere seconds and is usable from the get-go.

Nate4Drake said:

 Off topic, about the amount of RAM, which seems to be an hot topic, I feel that Sony are not gonna be so stingy, as going from gen to gen, the increase of RAM was always very generous.  From PS3 to PS4 the increase was 16X : can we expect a 2X only from PS4 to PS5 ?   I myself said 16GB for a base model, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sony opt for more RAM in the end.

 


Sony doesn't have a choice. Unlike prior generations... Ram capacity increased whilst the price came down/stayed the same... So they COULD increase DRAM counts by 16x.
Tech isn't evolving as fast as it used to... And that will have an effect on things like consoles.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

Wait, are people saying a 12TF GPU is unrealistic??? lol

Also 24GB Ram was hinted on Digital Foundry.



Regardless of the specs and hardware that are going to be in the PS5, I'm hoping people have their expectations in check regarding the graphical/visual difference between the PS4 to PS5. (even less so for PS4 Pro)

The night & day difference we saw with the PS2/PS3 graphical leap wasn't nearly as apparent when we went from PS3/PS4. This unavoidable reality is really gonna hit home once PS5 lands, and PS4 Pro/4K TV owners are going to be potentially underwhelmed the most out of the PS4 consumer base.