Forums - Gaming Discussion - Should Final Fantasy become a new type of game or should Final Fantasy not become a new type of game?

twintail said:
Xxain said:

It took AC:O for me to realize how underdeveloped the world of FFXV is.

I think anyone could have told you this. AC0 released after FF15 is the one of the latest releases in an open world IP, but a publisher who specialises in open world.

I dont think the troubled development FF15 is an indication of anything relating to the open world for the next FF.

I took into account the development history, but the game still has elements that feel backwards or against the concept of an open world game. It feels like the ideas were naturally just outdated.

vivster said:

As much as I hate FFXV from the bottom of my heart it's not really a good comparison. FFXV is going for a complete different experience than ACO or other western open world games. The open world isn't even an actual open world. It's just a series of large areas as it is done in all large scale JRPG. In fact I have yet to see the first open world JRPG. The thing is, do we even need it? The west has already perfected open world games so it's nice to still have your regular JRPGs. Going into a JRPG and expecting ACO or the Witcher is like going into a JPOP concert and expecting Finnish Hard Rock.

Right now I'm playing FFXII which is from gameplay extremely similar to FFXV, except that it's not shit at everything it does. It's not about exploring necessarily but about experiencing a world with lots of strange and amazing set pieces while also having some roaming in between to fill time. Having amazing set pieces and varied environments is simply not possible with the western formula of open world.

I believe and hope that it will stay on the same path. We don't need more open world games, we need more big scale JRPGs that don't suck ass like FFXV. FFXII and Xenoblade Chronicles are great examples to lead.

I actually forgot to write in the OP that FFXV feels less open world and more like if the Calm Lands were the entire game. SE has made it clear that they intend to continue the open world and quite frankly bro, that opens the door to be compared to other open world games even if they're not directly trying to a western style open world. With that being said, I'm on the opposite side, they should redesign a Final Fantasy that fully commits to an open world if they plan to continue on that path. I love XV but it so half assed.

Intrinsic said:
Please I don't want FF to become AC.........

Please no.

To be clear: I am not saying that Final Fantasy should be more like AC. NO! I am saying that open world Final fantasy needs to understand what makes an open world tick because FFXV was open world in the most simplest form. 

DakonBlackblade said:

AC O and FF XV are completly different games that try to do completly different things. And ACO isn't even one of the best open worlds, its standard AC open world, lots of uninteresting things to do everywhere and some nice vistas. Anyway FF shouldn't try to be open world at all, it should go back to being more linear, maybe take a leaf from Persona 5's success and stick to your guns, we don't need every game to be open world.

Final Fantasy is Global brand and one of the premiere Japanese IP's that is intended to represent the highest quality work from the country. It is not some B class JRPG. Where P5 is at Final Fantasy has been there done that a loooooong time ago. Up until recently, Final Fantasy has always been a leader that set the bar for Japanese RPG's and Japanese gaming in  general. SE should never turn Final Fantasy away from that role because that pressure is what makes Final Fantasy the beloved series that it is. Your idea is simply run away.



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FFXV was a major let-down, but regardless, I don't like the idea of generalizing western vs Japanese. Also, a game doesn't become great based on how "open" it's open-world elements are, or how close to "real-life" it's mechanics are.

But after reading your post: damn, I have to try AC:O now. Only AC game I've ever played was Black Flag, and only for a few hours at that.



XV's world was underdeveloped at the time of release it's nothing to do with the type of game it is it's just down to SE not handling it well games as far back as the original Xenoblade out do XV's open world and at the time SE were making corridor like designs for XIII they as a developer just aren't geared to open world design. What they need to do is stick to a segmented design all connected by a world map for example is we use FFVII as an example they can have all the towns and such as large segmented areas and then when you leave them you go to a world map.



Xxain said:
twintail said:

I think anyone could have told you this. AC0 released after FF15 is the one of the latest releases in an open world IP, but a publisher who specialises in open world.

I dont think the troubled development FF15 is an indication of anything relating to the open world for the next FF.

I took into account the development history, but the game still has elements that feel backwards or against the concept of an open world game. It feels like the ideas were naturally just outdated.

vivster said:

As much as I hate FFXV from the bottom of my heart it's not really a good comparison. FFXV is going for a complete different experience than ACO or other western open world games. The open world isn't even an actual open world. It's just a series of large areas as it is done in all large scale JRPG. In fact I have yet to see the first open world JRPG. The thing is, do we even need it? The west has already perfected open world games so it's nice to still have your regular JRPGs. Going into a JRPG and expecting ACO or the Witcher is like going into a JPOP concert and expecting Finnish Hard Rock.

Right now I'm playing FFXII which is from gameplay extremely similar to FFXV, except that it's not shit at everything it does. It's not about exploring necessarily but about experiencing a world with lots of strange and amazing set pieces while also having some roaming in between to fill time. Having amazing set pieces and varied environments is simply not possible with the western formula of open world.

I believe and hope that it will stay on the same path. We don't need more open world games, we need more big scale JRPGs that don't suck ass like FFXV. FFXII and Xenoblade Chronicles are great examples to lead.

I actually forgot to write in the OP that FFXV feels less open world and more like if the Calm Lands were the entire game. SE has made it clear that they intend to continue the open world and quite frankly bro, that opens the door to be compared to other open world games even if they're not directly trying to a western style open world. With that being said, I'm on the opposite side, they should redesign a Final Fantasy that fully commits to an open world if they plan to continue on that path. I love XV but it so half assed.

Intrinsic said:
Please I don't want FF to become AC.........

Please no.

To be clear: I am not saying that Final Fantasy should be more like AC. NO! I am saying that open world Final fantasy needs to understand what makes an open world tick because FFXV was open world in the most simplest form. 

DakonBlackblade said:

AC O and FF XV are completly different games that try to do completly different things. And ACO isn't even one of the best open worlds, its standard AC open world, lots of uninteresting things to do everywhere and some nice vistas. Anyway FF shouldn't try to be open world at all, it should go back to being more linear, maybe take a leaf from Persona 5's success and stick to your guns, we don't need every game to be open world.

Final Fantasy is Global brand and one of the premiere Japanese IP's that is intended to represent the highest quality work from the country. It is not some B class JRPG. Where P5 is at Final Fantasy has been there done that a loooooong time ago. Up until recently, Final Fantasy has always been a leader that set the bar for Japanese RPG's and Japanese gaming in  general. SE should never turn Final Fantasy away from that role because that pressure is what makes Final Fantasy the beloved series that it is. Your idea is simply run away.

P5 isn't B tier, and FF is still leading the JRPG both in sales and in technical prowess. They don't need to make it open world to achieve it though. You are just excited by what seems the first time you played an open world game... it gets boring quite fast.



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I think they're trying to do two different things, rather than one being a lacking version of the other.

One of my favorite worlds is the one in Final Fantasy XIII-3, because it was a somewhat smaller but as a result much more personal pseudo open world.
Both because of how you familiarized yourself with the characters though more intricate than usual NPC side quests (with real time passing of time like Majora's Mask), and due to you constantly re-treading familiar ground. Increasingly making landmarks more and more nostalgic and memorable because you start associating them with things in the story, rather than running past an area once that you'll never see again.

A concept also applied to Nier: Automata, which I really like. It's not necessarily better or worse than say the vast open space of something like Skyrim. I feel that they're different enough to warrant existing in a different space.
I want some games to have a vast explorable world like Skyrim, and I want some games to have a more personal pseudo open world like Nier.

Last edited by Hiku - on 31 January 2019

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Wyrdness said:
XV's world was underdeveloped at the time of release it's nothing to do with the type of game it is it's just down to SE not handling it well games as far back as the original Xenoblade out do XV's open world and at the time SE were making corridor like designs for XIII they as a developer just aren't geared to open world design. What they need to do is stick to a segmented design all connected by a world map for example is we use FFVII as an example they can have all the towns and such as large segmented areas and then when you leave them you go to a world map.

Unbelievable.

World maps and pre-rendered backgrounds were not desired by developers. They were workarounds for the tech not being there for fully realized 3D worlds. When we got tech what happened to World maps and pre-rendered backgrounds? They abandoned by abandoned by all that could afford to do so. Hell, even in the current day C class developers like Compile Heart have abandoned both. You are asking for regression in technology from SE. Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Final Fantasy, a global leading IP regressing back to the PS1 days while all its competitors move forward. Do you like the Final Fantasy series?



Xxain said:
Wyrdness said:
XV's world was underdeveloped at the time of release it's nothing to do with the type of game it is it's just down to SE not handling it well games as far back as the original Xenoblade out do XV's open world and at the time SE were making corridor like designs for XIII they as a developer just aren't geared to open world design. What they need to do is stick to a segmented design all connected by a world map for example is we use FFVII as an example they can have all the towns and such as large segmented areas and then when you leave them you go to a world map.

Unbelievable.

World maps and pre-rendered backgrounds were not desired by developers. They were workarounds for the tech not being there for fully realized 3D worlds. When we got tech what happened to World maps and pre-rendered backgrounds? They abandoned by abandoned by all that could afford to do so. Hell, even in the current day C class developers like Compile Heart have abandoned both. You are asking for regression in technology from SE. Do you understand how ridiculous that sounds? Final Fantasy, a global leading IP regressing back to the PS1 days while all its competitors move forward. Do you like the Final Fantasy series?

It's not regression it's actual structured design the towns and all will still be large open while the world map would be a hub, it's the point of view you've just given here that is ironically what has put SE in this position along with other developers in the genre and is what's actually ridiculous, they're busy chasing what some think is the standard for all even if it doesn't suit the design of the game or a series when in actual some of these older design approaches are still very much viable.

It's like when 3D game out and people thought that 2D no longer had any place in gaming when that was far from the case, under the narrow minded view you're pushing games like Octopath and Bravely would never exist because of they use older design approaches, older designs can be refined and made viable. XV when it was still Versus was going to have a world map that acts as a hub between the towns before the change over.



I don't think FF needs to be extremely open world. They could make the next one with smaller hub areas, but the main thing that irks me about JRPG's is their NPC's being so static and robotic, like they are always happy/giddy, even in the face of impending doom, while others display that "I don't care, I'm the cool guy". I know the West has their own stereotypes and tropes, just Japan and JRPG's are simply oozing with them, and I feel like they need to tone them back a bit, really work on some interesting NPC's that will seek you out, stuff like Witcher series does, as well as Skyrim with radiant quests and radiant NPC's.

That said, I'd still love for the next FF to be real time combat, but more refined and varied (yes it can be done).



               

Xxain said:

Final Fantasy is Global brand and one of the premiere Japanese IP's that is intended to represent the highest quality work from the country. It is not some B class JRPG. Where P5 is at Final Fantasy has been there done that a loooooong time ago. Up until recently, Final Fantasy has always been a leader that set the bar for Japanese RPG's and Japanese gaming in  general. SE should never turn Final Fantasy away from that role because that pressure is what makes Final Fantasy the beloved series that it is. Your idea is simply run away.

Persona isn't B tier. And the irony of what you said is that P5 is a far superior game than FFXV (wich I like btw) and FF XIII (wich I also like). Critics know it, gamers know it, Atlus knows it, Square knows it, P5 is a masterpeace. Square needs to stop trying to reinvent the wheal and stick to their guns, FF games were as good as they were cause Square wasn't trying to westernise nor copy anything and was just making great games. I mean they did just that, stuck to their guns, on FF XIV and delivered what is considered to be by many the best MMO on the market right now (me included), they didn't copy WoW or westernised their view, they made the game they wanted and despite failling spetacularly at first, they got it right on attempt number 2 and delivered something brilliant.

Also it seens you had never played an open world game before (wich I find odd, unless you are a new gamer or used to stick strickly to Japanese style games), the formula gets old real fast and ACO isn't realy one of the best open worlds out there.



DakonBlackblade said:

AC O and FF XV are completly different games that try to do completly different things. And ACO isn't even one of the best open worlds, its standard AC open world, lots of uninteresting things to do everywhere and some nice vistas. Anyway FF shouldn't try to be open world at all, it should go back to being more linear, maybe take a leaf from Persona 5's success and stick to your guns, we don't need every game to be open world.

Pretty much this ^



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