For Christianity to happen? No dig at religion. I think it is a integral part of human evolution.
Hunting Season is done...
For Christianity to happen? No dig at religion. I think it is a integral part of human evolution.
Hunting Season is done...
Pemalite said:
The "Biblical method" is based upon the claims found in the Bible and not evidence... The Bible then uses the power of fear and ignorance to conform people to it's indoctrination.
It's actually a good thing that science gets things wrong, makes mistakes. That is the entire point of the scientific method.
For God to be "all knowing and eternal", God needs to actually exist... And for the existence to be proven, you need a thing called evidence.
If you want to end your life, you have a mental illness or are suffering from such intense physical pain that Euthanasia is an option, either way, it's brought on by an illness.
The Bible is the claim, not evidence. Where do we draw the line? |
Must everything conform to the scientific method? Are other methods allowed? It's not the one, and only, method, is it?
Just because God doesn't do something you want them to or think they should, that mean's they don't exist? Hidden answers don't just appear because you want them to.
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Well is the Bible entirely fact or just a book to get you to potentially believe and follow? Has religion changed over time as well?
I'm not saying the scientific method is useless, it's useful, but can it prove 100% that God can't exist? If it ever does, then odds are many will change their minds.
What has science done? Chemical weapons, nukes, etc? Negatives along with positives?
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Has science proved God can't exist? Why not?
Do some Christians agree on some things? Do all scientists agree on everything?
Old science that made claims that weren't true is something to point out as an extremely bad thing?
Nobody knows until they find the answer they are content with, like science.
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What did they used to think and how did they use to treat some of these people? Differently than now? Why?
When it comes to suicide and mental health, the professionals, and you, know everything? Can't be wrong? Even partially?
What about people who decide to end someone else's life? Are they mentally ill? Could they just be sympathetic?
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If scientific claims were discarded they'd never have proven anything. They must have some faith in their idea's and continue.
Worshipers believe God is eternal, so, a lot, longer.
Good question. Where do we draw it? Can science answer that? Can it disprove the tooth fairy?
I can't help but feel you're a little biased here. Kinda like being given a Werther's Original when you'd much rather have a large glass of water. More water probably would've been a good idea along with the wishes though.
craighopkins said: Faith in Jesus Christ can save you from eternal darkness. Its the will of our heavenly Father that who ever believes in his son may have eternal life |
You kinda gotta prove a claim like this by designing an experiment that can be reliable recreated in a lab in a controlled environment, verified by at least three external, nonbiased sources.
Only then will Religion be treated with the respect you think it deserves.
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ResidentToxy said: Lol religion. An organised system for shared delusions. |
Outdated traditions masquerading as science.
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EricHiggin said: ...an indescribable amount of nonsense... |
After my previous encounters with you, why am I not surprised to see you're skeptical of science and in support of religion?
What is this, the regressive trifecta here? anti-science, republican, religious. The holy trinity of [redacted].
After seeing your posts in the US Politics thread, it's clear you like to debate (A lot, at great expense of your personal time) despite being utterly trash at it. Your points hold no value, your stance has no support, your arguments are fundamentally flawed, and based on everything I've read from you in various other threads, I am 100% certain that no amount of counter-pointing out your leaps in logic and hilariously flawed tactics would make you even consider that you're wrong. You're so far away from truth that arguing with you would make me look bad simply because I refuse to treat your points with respect due to the fact that they're so outlandishly removed from reality that they function as their own parody of themselves and thus arguing with them gives them power and Creedence they don't deserve.
Honestly, don't even bother responding to me because I'll read your answer once, slowly shake my head, and mentally envision the 10,000 word essay I'd need to write to explain every minute detail of your point and why it's wrong, how it's wrong, when the misconception started, how the falsehood was perpetuated, and whether or not you can be cured of your ignorance. It's actually painful skimming your posts because you consistently miss every point, refuse to use logic or science or rationality in your debate, and hold some pretty nasty opinions. It hurts to see that someone with the intelligence needed to operate a computer is somehow stuck in a time and place when your outdated, archaic views are still upheld, a time long in the past that needs to be relegated to history.
**Edit so there's no confusion**
Yes I hate religion. I believe that, at its core, it's a fundamentally broken belief system and that faith is damaging to the human psyche when it's replacing logic and reason. There are people who do good with it, there are those who behave morally and rationally even when under the influence of religion, but too often I see people using 'god' as an excuse to get away with shitty behaviour, faulty beliefs, a disrespect of science, and a backwards outlook on life. It irks me even more knowing that for some reason it's considered not cool or taboo or disrespectful to ream into religion for the sham that it is. Religion is the pyramid scheme of thought processed, the homeopathy of spirituality. It's fake, it's nonsense, and I won't pretend that it deserves any more respect than the scam it is. Religion is a mental disease, one of delusion and a self-removal from reality that should be treated with compassion and diligence in order to fix it, not encouraged by years of tradition and perpetuated on the global scale.
Good riddance to the whole concept. ESPECIALLY when it is put at odds with science.
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JWeinCom said:
Faith is not a path we use to get tot he truth in any other area of life. There is no reason to ignore the methods we use to come to sound conclusions in other areas of life when it comes to religion. As for the doctor, he is subject to human limitations. He has a right to and a need for personal satisfaction outside his work, he has to deal with physical and mental exhaustion, he has responsibilities outside work, etc. Knowing what we do about humans, it would be unreasonable to expect him to work to his absolute maximum capacity. God, assuming the typical definition, on the other hand is not subject to any such limitations, and being omnipotent, can cure all of the patients with no ill effects to himself, and can do so with 100% reliability. Simply put, if you could snap your finger and eliminate all childhood cancer, would you? I'm assuming yes. So, is god incapable of eliminating all childhood cancer, or is he capable of doing so, but chooses not to? Those are the only possibilities. |
Do we always use science? Do we use science at times even without being aware of it? What else might we not be aware of when consciously operating? Can something be said that's not factually correct, yet have deeper meaning beyond the obvious?
Where do the doctors rights come from? Why can't another human remove those rights?
God could also wipe everything out and restart since this universe clearly sucks as per our opinion. They could also reboot us all in the new one where nobody has to even think because it's self automated and perfect. Would that be better?
Every human would make changes, and create entirely unique universes. Which would be perfect and free from negativity? A universe with only positivity? Scientifically that doesn't work. God technically can if everything written and taught is true to the word. Is it though is the question? Some old science eventually get's proven, or get's modified based on new findings. Time is important when it comes to truth.
Runa216 said:
After my previous encounters with you, why am I not surprised to see you're skeptical of science and in support of religion? What is this, the regressive trifecta here? anti-science, republican, religious. The holy trinity of [redacted]. After seeing your posts in the US Politics thread, it's clear you like to debate (A lot, at great expense of your personal time) despite being utterly trash at it. Your points hold no value, your stance has no support, your arguments are fundamentally flawed, and based on everything I've read from you in various other threads, I am 100% certain that no amount of counter-pointing out your leaps in logic and hilariously flawed tactics would make you even consider that you're wrong. You're so far away from truth that arguing with you would make me look bad simply because I refuse to treat your points with respect due to the fact that they're so outlandishly removed from reality that they function as their own parody of themselves and thus arguing with them gives them power and Creedence they don't deserve. Honestly, don't even bother responding to me because I'll read your answer once, slowly shake my head, and mentally envision the 10,000 word essay I'd need to write to explain every minute detail of your point and why it's wrong, how it's wrong, when the misconception started, how the falsehood was perpetuated, and whether or not you can be cured of your ignorance. It's actually painful skimming your posts because you consistently miss every point, refuse to use logic or science or rationality in your debate, and hold some pretty nasty opinions. It hurts to see that someone with the intelligence needed to operate a computer is somehow stuck in a time and place when your outdated, archaic views are still upheld, a time long in the past that needs to be relegated to history. **Edit so there's no confusion** Yes I hate religion. I believe that, at its core, it's a fundamentally broken belief system and that faith is damaging to the human psyche when it's replacing logic and reason. There are people who do good with it, there are those who behave morally and rationally even when under the influence of religion, but too often I see people using 'god' as an excuse to get away with shitty behaviour, faulty beliefs, a disrespect of science, and a backwards outlook on life. It irks me even more knowing that for some reason it's considered not cool or taboo or disrespectful to ream into religion for the sham that it is. Religion is the pyramid scheme of thought processed, the homeopathy of spirituality. It's fake, it's nonsense, and I won't pretend that it deserves any more respect than the scam it is. Religion is a mental disease, one of delusion and a self-removal from reality that should be treated with compassion and diligence in order to fix it, not encouraged by years of tradition and perpetuated on the global scale. Good riddance to the whole concept. ESPECIALLY when it is put at odds with science. |
Talk about jumping to conclusions without enough evidence...
How much of what I've said here lately is of my personal beliefs vs my knowledge of religion in general?
While I remember writing "nonsense", I don't remember using the word "indescribable" along with it. Not sure where exactly that came from, but I could be wrong.
EricHiggin said:
Do we always use science? Do we use science at times even without being aware of it? What else might we not be aware of when consciously operating? Can something be said that's not factually correct, yet have deeper meaning beyond the obvious? Where do the doctors rights come from? Why can't another human remove those rights? God could also wipe everything out and restart since this universe clearly sucks as per our opinion. They could also reboot us all in the new one where nobody has to even think because it's self automated and perfect. Would that be better? Every human would make changes, and create entirely unique universes. Which would be perfect and free from negativity? A universe with only positivity? Scientifically that doesn't work. God technically can if everything written and taught is true to the word. Is it though is the question? Some old science eventually get's proven, or get's modified based on new findings. Time is important when it comes to truth. |
Uhhhhhh... what? None of this is remotely responsive to the point I made. I didn't mention anything about science, and have no idea what removing a doctor's rights has to do with anything. I did not assert this universe clearly sucks, and was incredibly careful to limit the conversation to negatives that are unrelated to free will.
I'm sorry, I really have no idea what you're saying, and you're spinning the conversation in ten different directions with ten different questions. If you want to try and focus on the key point you want to make, and maybe ask one or two clarifying questions, then I'm game, but I can't respond to this in a concise way.
JWeinCom said:
Uhhhhhh... what? None of this is remotely responsive to the point I made. I didn't mention anything about science, and have no idea what removing a doctor's rights has to do with anything. I did not assert this universe clearly sucks, and was incredibly careful to limit the conversation to negatives that are unrelated to free will. I'm sorry, I really have no idea what you're saying, and you're spinning the conversation in ten different directions with ten different questions. If you want to try and focus on the key point you want to make, and maybe ask one or two clarifying questions, then I'm game, but I can't respond to this in a concise way. |
You talked about getting to truth. Science is something that does that. It's just an example.
You mentioned the doctor's rights, as to why it was ok for them to choose not to do something.
You pointed out what God could do, because of the negatives that you or people don't seem to like. I took it further.
EricHiggin said:
You talked about getting to truth. Science is something that does that. It's just an example. You mentioned the doctor's rights, as to why it was ok for them to choose not to do something. You pointed out what God could do, because of the negatives that you or people don't seem to like. I took it further. |
I mean... conversation just kind of doesn't work that way. There's no way asking me a question about science can be responsive to a post that says nothing about science. Asking if someone can take away a doctor's rights has nothing to do with why we should expect perfection from god and not of a doctor. I'm making points and you're asking me questions that are at best tangentially related to the topic.
The conversation was about whether god, if he exists, should be worshiped.
I argued that he should not. Because he is omnipotent he could, if he chose, eliminate all suffering that is not a consequence of free will. Yet, we live in a world where there is a huge amount of suffering that is not a result of free will.
This leaves us with three possibilities.
God exists and wants us to suffer from causes entirely beyond human control. That is sadistic. We should not worship that kind of god.
God exists, but is not omnipotent. More reasonable, but it rules out the judeo-christian god as portrayed in the bible.
There is no god who is concerned with human well-being. That seems most reasonable.