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Forums - Politics Discussion - American Republican Jesus

thismeintiel said:
collint0101 said:

Because healthcare and safety nets are "for their own gains and power" apparently. how many anti tax republicans actually donate to charity and help people that are less fortunate and how do those numbers compare to what could be accomplished if America had tax rates that were comparable to most of Europe, Canada, Asia ect? I've heard a lot about tax cuts recently but I don't recall hearing much about charity donations going up. That's why I can't vote republican, whole party is too focused on their own wallets and that's why we are flat out worse off in regards to education, wealth inequality and healthcare

Again, policies that give the government more money and control.  Unless you are naive enough to believe every dime of that money is spent well and goes to the exact causes.  If you do, I have a bridge for sale.  Either way, something Jesus was not about.  Individual responsibility, not an overpowering government that dictates everything for everyone. 

Well, 2017 was the first time charitable giving crossed $400B, hitting $410B, so...yea, I'd say so.  And 2018 may be even larger. People are also seeing higher wages, which is always good.

The dollar amount for charitable donations has gone up every year since 1977 with the exception of 1987, 2008 and 2009. There was more money going into charity last year than there was in 2016 simply because theres more money in the economy in 2017 than there was in 2016. Unless the gdp simply stops growing there always going to be an increase in how much money is going to charity no matter what kind of president and tax cuts we're dealing with. Thats simply not something to brag about. 



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thismeintiel said:

The entire problem with this concept is that Jesus had nothing to do with government. The government actually hated him and had him killed. Jesus taught for each individual to make their world better, not give nearly half of their belongings to the government to handle things. The policy was also 10% tithing to the church. The government always finds a way to get close to half, very immoral. Especially when we know they waste and funnel a lot of it. It's probably why the Right constantly gives more to charity than the Left. Their responsibility, not governments.

As always, it's funny to see the Left bust out Jesus whenever it's convenient. Are there hypocrites on the Right when it comes to religion? Of course. But the vast majority lie within the Left. They steal from taxpayers for their own gains and power. They tried to take God out of their convention platform, only being forced to keep it by those in charge. They do not teach tolerance, but demand full acceptance and praise for their ideals, threatening those that disagree. And they promote the killing of the little ones Jesus loved so much, not in horrible, life-threatening circumstances, but just as your everyday ordinary birth control.

The lefts God, science, told them about global cooling, then global warming, and now climate change. They only came to realize this because it requires interpretation, which is something the right wouldn't understand, because they believe exactly what the Bible says, which was the word of an invisible entity in the sky, unlike CO2...

Hiku said:

Sounds pretty spot on. I liked the healthcare bit.
If Jesus ran for office today, he would be called "a crazy socialist".

I suppose there are a lot of people who just believe in teachings of a religion when it's convenient for them. But some times you have to wonder if they are aware of the irony.
And on a similar note, not pertaining to religion, I wonder the same about racists and bigots.
Stan Lee just passed away, and he said that Marvel has always been a reflection of our world. And the only people it doesn't have room for are those with hatred, intolerance, and bigotry for those who are different.

I bet the people he is referring to actually agree with these sentiments, while they're watching the films. They root for the same heroes as we do, and against the same obvious villains. But when they step outside, the message is lost on them.

Funny how no one has pointed out that GOP Jesus is a racist. A white guy who dressed up as a middle eastern guy. He should be made an example of just like that racist Megyn Kelly...

Hiku said:
thismeintiel said:

Again, policies that give the government more money and control.  Unless you are naive enough to believe every dime of that money is spent well and goes to the exact causes.  If you do, I have a bridge for sale.  Either way, something Jesus was not about.  Individual responsibility, not an overpowering government that dictates everything for everyone. 

Well, 2017 was the first time charitable giving crossed $400B, hitting $410B, so...yea, I'd say so.  And 2018 may be even larger. People are also seeing higher wages, which is always good.

In spite of charities, around 40 000 people die annually in the US because they can't afford healthcare. A number that is 0 in the rest of the developed world. Not every individual with the power to help does so. And among those who do, you're at the mercy of which cause they chose to support. If that sentiment worked, we wouldn't have any need for taxes. There are many people who do not care for the greater good.
That's where living in a society and a democracy comes in. Government may not always do what the majority wants. But if the majority keep voting to get their way, the elected officials who betray them are removed. Although the majority/popular vote isn't really a thing in USA either. And they can just lie if their constituents are gullible enough. But I digress...

As for Jesus, he performed miracles that are not possible for an individual.

How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?

collint0101 said:
thismeintiel said:

Again, policies that give the government more money and control.  Unless you are naive enough to believe every dime of that money is spent well and goes to the exact causes.  If you do, I have a bridge for sale.  Either way, something Jesus was not about.  Individual responsibility, not an overpowering government that dictates everything for everyone. 

Well, 2017 was the first time charitable giving crossed $400B, hitting $410B, so...yea, I'd say so.  And 2018 may be even larger. People are also seeing higher wages, which is always good.

The dollar amount for charitable donations has gone up every year since 1977 with the exception of 1987, 2008 and 2009. There was more money going into charity last year than there was in 2016 simply because theres more money in the economy in 2017 than there was in 2016. Unless the gdp simply stops growing there always going to be an increase in how much money is going to charity no matter what kind of president and tax cuts we're dealing with. Thats simply not something to brag about. 

If Trump pushed to make the largest charitable donation is worldwide history, the MSM would either cover another story for a week about how Trump crushed an anthill because he was told to do so by Putin and he should be impeached, or they would explain how that money pile was lying around from Obama and it's all thanks to him, not Trump.



EricHiggin said:
thismeintiel said:

The entire problem with this concept is that Jesus had nothing to do with government. The government actually hated him and had him killed. Jesus taught for each individual to make their world better, not give nearly half of their belongings to the government to handle things. The policy was also 10% tithing to the church. The government always finds a way to get close to half, very immoral. Especially when we know they waste and funnel a lot of it. It's probably why the Right constantly gives more to charity than the Left. Their responsibility, not governments.

As always, it's funny to see the Left bust out Jesus whenever it's convenient. Are there hypocrites on the Right when it comes to religion? Of course. But the vast majority lie within the Left. They steal from taxpayers for their own gains and power. They tried to take God out of their convention platform, only being forced to keep it by those in charge. They do not teach tolerance, but demand full acceptance and praise for their ideals, threatening those that disagree. And they promote the killing of the little ones Jesus loved so much, not in horrible, life-threatening circumstances, but just as your everyday ordinary birth control.

The lefts God, science, told them about global cooling, then global warming, and now climate change. They only came to realize this because it requires interpretation, which is something the right wouldn't understand, because they believe exactly what the Bible says, which was the word of an invisible entity in the sky, unlike CO2...

Hiku said:

Sounds pretty spot on. I liked the healthcare bit.
If Jesus ran for office today, he would be called "a crazy socialist".

I suppose there are a lot of people who just believe in teachings of a religion when it's convenient for them. But some times you have to wonder if they are aware of the irony.
And on a similar note, not pertaining to religion, I wonder the same about racists and bigots.
Stan Lee just passed away, and he said that Marvel has always been a reflection of our world. And the only people it doesn't have room for are those with hatred, intolerance, and bigotry for those who are different.

I bet the people he is referring to actually agree with these sentiments, while they're watching the films. They root for the same heroes as we do, and against the same obvious villains. But when they step outside, the message is lost on them.

Funny how no one has pointed out that GOP Jesus is a racist. A white guy who dressed up as a middle eastern guy. He should be made an example of just like that racist Megyn Kelly...

Hiku said:

In spite of charities, around 40 000 people die annually in the US because they can't afford healthcare. A number that is 0 in the rest of the developed world. Not every individual with the power to help does so. And among those who do, you're at the mercy of which cause they chose to support. If that sentiment worked, we wouldn't have any need for taxes. There are many people who do not care for the greater good.
That's where living in a society and a democracy comes in. Government may not always do what the majority wants. But if the majority keep voting to get their way, the elected officials who betray them are removed. Although the majority/popular vote isn't really a thing in USA either. And they can just lie if their constituents are gullible enough. But I digress...

As for Jesus, he performed miracles that are not possible for an individual.

How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?

collint0101 said:

The dollar amount for charitable donations has gone up every year since 1977 with the exception of 1987, 2008 and 2009. There was more money going into charity last year than there was in 2016 simply because theres more money in the economy in 2017 than there was in 2016. Unless the gdp simply stops growing there always going to be an increase in how much money is going to charity no matter what kind of president and tax cuts we're dealing with. Thats simply not something to brag about. 

If Trump pushed to make the largest charitable donation is worldwide history, the MSM would either cover another story for a week about how Trump crushed an anthill because he was told to do so by Putin and he should be impeached, or they would explain how that money pile was lying around from Obama and it's all thanks to him, not Trump.

US media is shitty and biased what's your point? As for the murder rates of other countries https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

The us is way higher than basically every other rich nation.  For the sake of answering your question "How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?" About 1.95 per 100k in Belgium who is on the higher end of rich nations compared to the USA who has a murder rate of 4.88 per 100k, right there in the same league as kazakhstan and Rwanda



collint0101 said:
EricHiggin said:

The lefts God, science, told them about global cooling, then global warming, and now climate change. They only came to realize this because it requires interpretation, which is something the right wouldn't understand, because they believe exactly what the Bible says, which was the word of an invisible entity in the sky, unlike CO2...

Funny how no one has pointed out that GOP Jesus is a racist. A white guy who dressed up as a middle eastern guy. He should be made an example of just like that racist Megyn Kelly...

How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?

If Trump pushed to make the largest charitable donation is worldwide history, the MSM would either cover another story for a week about how Trump crushed an anthill because he was told to do so by Putin and he should be impeached, or they would explain how that money pile was lying around from Obama and it's all thanks to him, not Trump.

US media is shitty and biased what's your point? As for the murder rates of other countries https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

The us is way higher than basically every other rich nation.  For the sake of answering your question "How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?" About 1.95 per 100k in Belgium who is on the higher end of rich nations compared to the USA who has a murder rate of 4.88 per 100k, right there in the same league as kazakhstan and Rwanda

It has to be all death's by any weapons that aren't legal. My point is if 40,000 die because they don't have healthcare, which let's be honest, is not the only reason they died, how many die in comparison because of rules other countries have that are different than America?



Hiku said:
EricHiggin said: 

How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?

Does this relate to the video? They referenced healthcare, but if they talked about gun violence, or homicide rates, I must have missed it.
But to answer your question, assuming there is a reference in the video (please make sure to point out where, in your next reply) and you're not just throwing in a random subject, considering all these countries have significantly lower homicide rates than USA, the answer is; probably substantially fewer cases than occur in USA.

Japan 0.28
Iceland 0.30
Norway 0.51
Spain 0.63
Portugal 0.64
South Korea 0.70
Australia 0.94
Sweden 1.08
United Kingdom 1.20
France 1.35
Etc.

United States 5.35

Burglars will rarely bring guns with them in countries that don't allow guns, because they know there will be no gun in the house. If things go south, they can run away without losing their lives.
In USA however, there's the risk that any house they break into has guns inside. So they consider bringing their own guns. For... protection. 

On a semi-serious note, you're probably more likely to get caught up in one of USA's school shootings.



Unlike the homicide ratios, these figures are not adjusted for population size. But needless to say, USA is not 288 times the size of Japan. It's barely 3 times as large.
And no, they didn't have 96 samurai sword school attacks.
USA doesn't have a monopoly on mentally unstable people. But what they do have is 5% of the world's population, and 42% of the world's guns.
So the answer to the problem is obviously... more guns. Arm the teachers, the doctors, the pastors, the nuns, the rabis. Nothing could go wrong.

There are countries with worse gun violence statistics than USA. But they're so called undeveloped nations.

"If a man strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him and shoot him. That is the law". Sounded like gun violence to me.

Are the standards for murder and school shootings the exact same across all Countries? So stop the innocent, peaceful, civil people from doing what they want to do, so the guilty, disruptive, uncivil criminals can do what they want to? If the US has 288X the amount of guns, or close to that, than Japan does, then you may have a point. Otherwise not, which is my assumption. I'd guess you'd be a lot closer if you said America has 288X the amount of BS coming out of their media.

No reply to racist GOP Jesus? Where did GOP Jesus talk about comics and super hero's? 



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Hiku said:
EricHiggin said:

"If a man strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him and shoot him. That is the law". Sounded like gun violence to me.

Are the standards for murder and school shootings the exact same across all Countries? So stop the innocent, peaceful, civil people from doing what they want to do, so the guilty, disruptive, uncivil criminals can do what they want to? If the US has 288X the amount of guns, or close to that, than Japan does, then you may have a point. Otherwise not, which is my assumption. I'd guess you'd be a lot closer if you said America has 288X the amount of BS coming out of their media.

No reply to racist GOP Jesus? Where did GOP Jesus talk about comics and super hero's? 

I see the reference you're referring to in the video now, thanks.

I'm not sure I follow what you're trying to say about the difference in guns in circulation in the country. Are you suggesting USA has more than 288x times the guns Japan does? Or less? And what would that mean? My point was that there is a correlation between more guns = more gun violence. And there's a lot of statistics we can look at regarding that.
But regarding Japan, their gun ratio (guns per person) is 0.003.
USA's is 1,205. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country

Meaning they have more guns than they have people. And that USA's number is 401X higher than Japan's.
You'll have to tell me what you make of that.

But from your reply to collint0101, I guess you are of the mindset that there must be some equivalent to the ~40 000 who in USA unnecessarily die every year from not being able to afford healthcare, in other developed countries?
I'm not sure how to track your suggestion about victims of murders where a deadly weapon was used other than homicide rates. Perhaps amount of people living in poverty, or homeless people? If you have any other ideas then feel free to share.

Your welcome.

The note beside America, which can be taken a couple different ways, says either 300 million guns, or 600 million, so not 1,205 per person, but 1 or almost 2 per person.

First it's estimated. Secondly that 401X, which I'm having trouble matching, has to be divided by 3 due to the population difference, so it would only be 133%.

I don't know either, I just posed the question, with the point that you can't only blame a lack of healthcare on those deaths, and that there are many ways in which people can die, so worrying about the largest contributors would seem like a good place to start.



EricHiggin said:
collint0101 said:

US media is shitty and biased what's your point? As for the murder rates of other countries https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/murder-rates-by-country.html

The us is way higher than basically every other rich nation.  For the sake of answering your question "How many people die in other developed nations because they can't protect themselves from the criminals or crazies with weapons?" About 1.95 per 100k in Belgium who is on the higher end of rich nations compared to the USA who has a murder rate of 4.88 per 100k, right there in the same league as kazakhstan and Rwanda

It has to be all death's by any weapons that aren't legal. My point is if 40,000 die because they don't have healthcare, which let's be honest, is not the only reason they died, how many die in comparison because of rules other countries have that are different than America?

I gave you a list of every nation listed by homicide rates and Hiku took it a step further. What else do you want? 



collint0101 said:
EricHiggin said:

It has to be all death's by any weapons that aren't legal. My point is if 40,000 die because they don't have healthcare, which let's be honest, is not the only reason they died, how many die in comparison because of rules other countries have that are different than America?

I gave you a list of every nation listed by homicide rates and Hiku took it a step further. What else do you want? 

Murder and homicide are not the same thing. The list mentions homicide here and there but seems to be about murder stats. That only covers a portion.



The Christ described in the Bible would go to the border to feed and wash the feet of the "migrant caravan" while Republicans would pelt him with trash most and call him a SJW and weak on border security.



Hiku said:
EricHiggin said:

Your welcome.

The note beside America, which can be taken a couple different ways, says either 300 million guns, or 600 million, so not 1,205 per person, but 1 or almost 2 per person.

First it's estimated. Secondly that 401X, which I'm having trouble matching, has to be divided by 3 due to the population difference, so it would only be 133%.

I don't know either, I just posed the question, with the point that you can't only blame a lack of healthcare on those deaths, and that there are many ways in which people can die, so worrying about the largest contributors would seem like a good place to start.

They're estimates, yeah. There's no tracking device on each gun (yet).

The 401X figure is the difference in gun ratio. Which is measured by guns per person/capita. Difference in population size is not a factor when you look at ratios. That would be when you look at the total amount of guns in the country. Which we can do by multiplying the ratio to the population. I'll go by the more conservative 1.205 ratio listed for USA.

USA
1.205 x 325 Million people = 391 million guns

Since Japan has roughly 38% of USA's population, they would have 148 million (38% of those guns), in a similar scenario. Let's see how much they actually have.

Japan
0.003 x 126 million = 0,37 million guns

Do you see now where the 401X figure comes from? Multiply 0,37 million (370 000) with 401, and you'll get 151 million. Which is ~38% (Japan's population difference to USA) of the 391 million guns in USA.
(I dropped a decimal here and there so it came out 148 million earlier instead of 151, but you get the idea.)

So yes, the math checks out on the 401X ratio difference. You don't divide it by 3 because it's a ratio.

Anyway, regarding the ~40 000 annual death toll in USA I mentioned in regards to people dying from not being able to afford healthcare, I think there's been a misunderstanding there, as you keep saying "can't only blame healthcare for those deaths".
I'm not quite sure, but it sounds like you took it as the number of people who die unnatural deaths in USA every year?
That is not the case. This figure is estimates of deaths directly caused by the inability to afford healthcare, specifically. The amount of preventable cases of deaths in general, per year, in USA is significantly higher than 40 000. Then we're talking over a million per year
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preventable_causes_of_death

Regarding healthcare, while that 40 000 - 46 000 death figure is estimate and may be off by several thousands, the point remains that this figure is 0 in every other developed nation.
Because they all have literally affordable healthcare systems. Where if you for some reason still can't afford it in spite of the low cost, the government will pay for it if you show them your finances. No one dies because they can't afford healthcare. We've made it a human right, like public schooling. Which was only something rich children were able to attend before people stood up for themselves and said their children deserved an education as well. The same was done for healthcare in the whole developed world. Except USA.

Ya ok I didn't think you had accounted for pop difference. So regardless of the estimates, being higher than 288X would lead me to agree it's probably partially to blame, but I still wouldn't place all that much blame on just the physical guns themselves.

I am assuming it's inability to afford healthcare. Your saying it only covers something like someone who get's cancer and can't afford the treatment that falls under that, assuming they didn't knowingly spend a lot of time around radioactive materials that gave them that cancer for example? That would change the way I was thinking about it.

I understand the reasons people push for free stuff, I just don't necessarily agree with them all. I'm not a believer that people are born with rights or are super special and need to be taken care of. Now if someone wants to do that for somebody else, I'm not really going to argue with that, because it shouldn't really impact me. Now if they decide I'm just a bad person and they'll take my money to do 'what's right' anyway, now that most certainly is impacting me and that's a problem. Personally, I don't look at rights like many do, because history as taught us that as right and moral as we might think we are, way more often than not, we have been wrong, so.