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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Wii, third party support by the end of this gen?

ctk495 said:

Will the wii by the end of this gen, have better third party support than the ps360?


Probably not in the way you're hoping. If you mean better as in more exclusives or more games being made for it then the Wii already has that as there are more exclusives for that system than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Of course many of those games are either budget, minigame compilations, casual, spinoffs, etc. If on the other hand you mean hardcore games then it's not likely to happen in my opinion just based on interviews and statements coming from the likes of Ubisoft, Take-Two, EA, etc.

Maybe their outlook will change next year and the games of 2010 or 2011 might be what you're hoping for but even then that would probably require a change in the buying habits of Wii gamers. For example when Take-Two can release a game like Carnival Games and get over a million in sales and then release a game like Bully and barely make it past one hundred thousand then what's the incentive for them to take away resources from cheaper casual games for the Wii to put them towards more expensive hardcore games for it?

Also many people seem to compare the Wii to the PS2 or DS but there are key differences between the Wii and either of those. For starters hardcore games sold well on the PS2 right out of the gate. Third parties never had any problems trying to figure out what sells well on the PS2 because their existing franchises already did and their newer ones didn't have any problems. As for the DS, it's competition isn't comparable to the multiplatform PC/PS3/360 game development that the Wii faces. There are relatively few PSP games that sell in the numbers we're seeing with multiplatform PC/PS3/360 games. Add in the cutthroat competition between the PS3 and 360 and the willingness of both to spend millions to help with development costs or advertising and it makes it even more lucrative for third parties.

Of course as I've said things could change but the fact that Nintendo is putting more advertising dollars into Wii Fit than it did with it's classic hardcore franchises leads me to think that third parties are going to follow Nintendo's lead and push casual games as well.



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Legend11 said:
ctk495 said:

Will the wii by the end of this gen, have better third party support than the ps360?


Probably not in the way you're hoping. If you mean better as in more exclusives or more games being made for it then the Wii already has that as there are more exclusives for that system than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Of course many of those games are either budget, minigame compilations, casual, spinoffs, etc. If on the other hand you mean hardcore games then it's not likely to happen in my opinion just based on interviews and statements coming from the likes of Ubisoft, Take-Two, EA, etc.

Maybe their outlook will change next year and the games of 2010 or 2011 might be what you're hoping for but even then that would probably require a change in the buying habits of Wii gamers. For example when Take-Two can release a game like Carnival Games and get over a million in sales and then release a game like Bully and barely make it past one hundred thousand then what's the incentive for them to takes away resources from cheaper casual games for the Wii to put them towards more expensive hardcore games for it?

Also many people seem to compare the Wii to the PS2 or DS but there are key differences between the Wii and either of those. For starters hardcore games sold well on the PS2 right out of the gate. Third parties never had any problems trying to figure out what sells well on the PS2 because their existing franchises already did and their newer ones didn't have any problems. As for the DS, it's competition isn't comparable to the multiplatform PC/PS3/360 game development that the Wii faces. There are relatively few PSP games that sell in the numbers we're seeing with multiplatform PC/PS3/360 games. Add in the cutthroat competition between the PS3 and 360 and the willingness of both to spend millions to help with development costs or advertising and it makes it even more lucrative for third parties.

Of course as I've said things could change but the fact that Nintendo is putting more advertising dollars into Wii Fit than it did with it's classic hardcore franchises leads me to think that third parties are going to follow Nintendo's lead and push casual games as well.


That's a well thought out and valid opinion there. You've improved.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

RolStoppable said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
RolStoppable said:
 

As self proclaimed expert for sarcasm, I have to tell you that he wasn't being sarcastic. Just look through his posting history, posts like this are a common thing for him. That's really how he views the world.

That's impossible, lol. Just do the numbers in his cost of 50 million but sell 1 million, vs cost of 10 million, but sell 700,00, comment.

It's GOT to be sarcasm, or I've never truely detected it.


There's nothing wrong with the numbers in his example. Selling 1m copies at $60 a piece makes $60m, selling 700k copies at $50 a piece makes $35m. The PS360 game generates more revenue by a large margin. As he said, it's basic math. But of course, due to his bias he takes a lower sales number for the Wii to make the HD consoles look better.

Hmm, if it was anybody but you Rol, I'd believe you, but no, you're trying to trick me, what he wrote has to be sarcasm, and I'm not responding until the man himself pops on and tells me he was serious.



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.

Several notes...

http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=7934

^One of the numerous stupid metrics that was launched at the Wii and PS3 launch to try to show how the XB360 would crush them all. Notice when the Wii started destroying their hopes, they slowed, then even stopped counting the Wii in one of these. Finally, all these stupid metrics happened to become counter productive to their arguments.

Bully is a port from a game that had most of its sales on the last gen winner, which is the PS2. So it had no chance to sell well on the WIi, especially with the port being so poor. These games that were on Playstation have NO base on the Wii, so they have a hard time selling well if they're not heavily advertised. As there were few franchises on Gamecube, the publishers will now have a hard time with these.

The only reason Doom 3, Far Cry, Half Life 2, ... were exclusives to XBox is because they were PC games on Windows, so used DirectX, and as the XBox was basically a PC using DirectX, it was very easy to port. As DirectX is a shitty framework made to only work in Windows environment, it's very hard to translate efficiently to OpenGL and other free standards that are used in most consoles. So that's why. Ninja Gaiden was the only true exclusive.

Besides, detractors just don't see it, but most hardcore games people love are out from Japan. They talk like most of the 3rd party games comes from western devs. Like DS have shown, that's not the case. Even the DS still gets poor western support. The Wii surely will be the same. That's what people saying it won't get hardware support mean: they're stuck in a FPS world of games, which are dominated by western devs. But fortunately, games are not just FPS, there are plenty of other genres, and like for the DS, Japan will basically be forced to support the Wii to survive and make more profit. Playstation 3 and XB360 just won't cut it there. The rest will follow.



What is it about people always showing shock and amazement at the weakest system of this gen beating up on it's more powerful competitors. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. Ps2 beat GCN and Xbox. Ps1 beat N64 and saturn. SNES beat the Genesis. NES beat the Master System. Heck even the Atari 2600 beat the Colecovison and Intelivision. Honestly, what makes people think this Gen is gonna be any different? My theory is that the system with the least power has to be the system to innovate, it's gotta be fun, rather than relying on visuals to sell games. And lets face it, even the worst graphics whores among us would not play a beautiful unplayable game, Gameplay has always ruled the gaming industry and always will.



Kickin' Those Games Old School.       -       201 Beaten Games And Counting

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yushire said:
OK, I already research 3rd party games for the Wii and surprise surprise the Wii have MORE TITLES than the PS3, I didnt include 360 here because it already have one year advantage. BTW Im researching the three "big publisher THQ, Activision and Ubsoft I didnt include EA and Atari because EA and Atari have too many titles already for the Wii since EA was a multiplat publisher and Atari was anime games publisher. First was Ubisoft:

For PS3:

Tom Calancy's HAWX
Blazing angels 2 Secret Mission of WWII
Assasin's creed
Blazing angels squadrons of WWII
Haze
Tom Clancy's Endwar
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 2
Lost
Beowulf
Tom Clancy's GRAW 2
Surf's Up
Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas
Splinter Cell double agent
Enchanted Arms

Now for the Wii:

Emergency Heroes
No More Heroes
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2
The Dog Island
Nitrobike
My Word Coach
Cosmic Family
Prince of Persia Rival Swords
Blazing Angels Squadron of WWII
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Rayman Raving Rabbids
Red Steel
CSI Hard evidence
Cranium Kabookli
Petz Horze 2
Petz Dogz 2
Petz Catz 2
Driver Parallel Lines
Surf's Up
Far Cry Vengeance
Splinter Cell double Agent
Open Season
Monster 4x4 World Circuit
GT Pro series

Have you noticed that the Ps3 games have no variety at all? Only shooters and FPS and even double in games the Wii have more variety can cater to all demographics?


Activision for PS3:

Call of Duty 3
Call of Duty 4
Guitar Hero III legends of Rock
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Soldier of Fortune Payback
Spider Man 3 the game
The History Channel Battle of the Pacific
Tony Hawk's proving ground
Tony Hawk's Project 8
Transformers the game
World Series Poker

Now for he Wii:

Barbie- mmkay
Bee Movie game
Cabela's Big game hunter
Call of Duty 3
Dancing with the Stars
Guitar Hero 3
Hot Wheels Beat that
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Monster Jam
Rapala tournament Fishing
Shrek the third
Spider Man 3 the game
Spiderman friend or foe
Tony Hawk Downhill Jam
Tony Hawk proving ground
Transformers the game
World Series Poker

Id rather take a list no variety with potentially 1 good game than a list of complete shit. But thats just me.

Do I see the wii getting the most support? Of course I do. Do i see it getting the most AAA games from 3rd party publishers? No. The wii has positioned itself as the "only party games" sell console and there is nothing wrong with that but dont expect it to steal all the major franchises form the ps360.  

 



 

 

 

ookaze said:
Several notes...

http://www.gamingtarget.com/article.php?artid=7934

^One of the numerous stupid metrics that was launched at the Wii and PS3 launch to try to show how the XB360 would crush them all. Notice when the Wii started destroying their hopes, they slowed, then even stopped counting the Wii in one of these. Finally, all these stupid metrics happened to become counter productive to their arguments.

Bully is a port from a game that had most of its sales on the last gen winner, which is the PS2. So it had no chance to sell well on the WIi, especially with the port being so poor. These games that were on Playstation have NO base on the Wii, so they have a hard time selling well if they're not heavily advertised. As there were few franchises on Gamecube, the publishers will now have a hard time with these.

The only reason Doom 3, Far Cry, Half Life 2, ... were exclusives to XBox is because they were PC games on Windows, so used DirectX, and as the XBox was basically a PC using DirectX, it was very easy to port. As DirectX is a shitty framework made to only work in Windows environment, it's very hard to translate efficiently to OpenGL and other free standards that are used in most consoles. So that's why. Ninja Gaiden was the only true exclusive.

Besides, detractors just don't see it, but most hardcore games people love are out from Japan. They talk like most of the 3rd party games comes from western devs. Like DS have shown, that's not the case. Even the DS still gets poor western support. The Wii surely will be the same. That's what people saying it won't get hardware support mean: they're stuck in a FPS world of games, which are dominated by western devs. But fortunately, games are not just FPS, there are plenty of other genres, and like for the DS, Japan will basically be forced to support the Wii to survive and make more profit. Playstation 3 and XB360 just won't cut it there. The rest will follow.

 That's a very poorly thought out article in my opinion.  Anyways I'll address some of the points he brought up which in my opinion don't really make any sense.

For starters the Doom3, Far Cry, Half Life 2 on Xbox comment is correct but it's pretty much irrelevant this generation as most developers are using game engines that have already been ported to consoles.  It also actually runs counter to the argument he is trying to put forth.  The fact that it's now relatively easy to port between PC/360/PS3 would suggest even more games being made for them not less.  So why would he include that in an argument for why the Wii will get more support?

Then he talks about Japan and third parties needing to support the Wii in order to survive but that is nonsense especially since most sales of hardcore Japanese games are already happening outside of Japan.  Take a look at Devil May Cry 4 for example, it's a game that actually appeals to the Japanese audience yet only about 17% of it's sales so far have come from Japan.  The ratio gets even worse for many other hardcore games.  Also since the videogame market is growing faster outside of Japan and game development costs are going up, even if the Wii has managed to postpone the problem, it doesn't change the fact that eventually Japanese videogame companies are going to become more reliant on sales from outside of Japan.  



Legend11 said:
ctk495 said:

Will the wii by the end of this gen, have better third party support than the ps360?


Probably not in the way you're hoping. If you mean better as in more exclusives or more games being made for it then the Wii already has that as there are more exclusives for that system than both the PS3 and 360 combined. Of course many of those games are either budget, minigame compilations, casual, spinoffs, etc. If on the other hand you mean hardcore games then it's not likely to happen in my opinion just based on interviews and statements coming from the likes of Ubisoft, Take-Two, EA, etc.

Maybe their outlook will change next year and the games of 2010 or 2011 might be what you're hoping for but even then that would probably require a change in the buying habits of Wii gamers. For example when Take-Two can release a game like Carnival Games and get over a million in sales and then release a game like Bully and barely make it past one hundred thousand then what's the incentive for them to take away resources from cheaper casual games for the Wii to put them towards more expensive hardcore games for it?

Also many people seem to compare the Wii to the PS2 or DS but there are key differences between the Wii and either of those. For starters hardcore games sold well on the PS2 right out of the gate. Third parties never had any problems trying to figure out what sells well on the PS2 because their existing franchises already did and their newer ones didn't have any problems. As for the DS, it's competition isn't comparable to the multiplatform PC/PS3/360 game development that the Wii faces. There are relatively few PSP games that sell in the numbers we're seeing with multiplatform PC/PS3/360 games. Add in the cutthroat competition between the PS3 and 360 and the willingness of both to spend millions to help with development costs or advertising and it makes it even more lucrative for third parties.

Of course as I've said things could change but the fact that Nintendo is putting more advertising dollars into Wii Fit than it did with it's classic hardcore franchises leads me to think that third parties are going to follow Nintendo's lead and push casual games as well.


 Agree 110%.  Will the Wii have more 3rd party titles available than PS3 or 360? Yes, however the OP was ambiguously worded as "better."  In my opinion quality trumps quantity, and the higher quality 3rd party games are all on PS3 and 360.  That's not going to change



It's all a matter of perspective, really. Certainly people who owned computers when the NES came out figured that the quality of NES games was far below par compared to what they had on their systems, yet you'll find far more people who fondly recollect the likes of Super Mario Brothers than people who fondly recollect the likes of King's Quest or Might and Magic...



Sky Render - Sanity is for the weak.

De85 said:
 

Agree 110%. Will the Wii have more 3rd party titles available than PS3 or 360? Yes, however the OP was ambiguously worded as "better." In my opinion quality trumps quantity, and the higher quality 3rd party games are all on PS3 and 360. That's not going to change


Ah, but you can't paint in broad strokes and still be considered correct, or in opinionated terms "valid."

 

I think some people get offended when I say their opinion is not valid. However, what I mean is, "Your opinion has a very small chance of being correct."

 

Now, if I said "The PS3 has no games." My opinion would be invalid(and very childish in its presentation.)

 

If you say "higher quality 3rd party games are all on the PS3 and 360" your opinion would be invalid, because certainly in the Wii's lifetime even thus far it has seen some "higher quality" 3rd party games, or even just one, however, just one makes your absolutely stated opinion provably incorrect.

 

Instead you should say that most AAA 3rd party titles will end up on the 360 and PS3.

 

The devil is in the details, and sometimes how you word your opinion changes it from absolutely incorrect, to perfectly plausable, with all due respect.

 

In other words, I fully respect your opinion, but I think it has been proven wrong with releases of games like RE4, Okami, Bully, Guitar Hero 3, Rock Band, and Zack and Wiki. 



I don't need your console war.
It feeds the rich while it buries the poor.
You're power hungry, spinnin' stories, and bein' graphics whores.
I don't need your console war.

NO NO, NO NO NO.