@dabaus513 sorry to say this, but I think you and most of the members in core gaming sites and forums are blinded by "core gaming" mentality that's plaguing in "the internets". You all think that the games that will come out in the system must AAA titles to make the games enjoyable or playable. So what if most of third party games arent AAA titles? As long as its not bad or mediocre and as long as its playable thats enough for a average gamer to purchase it.

Thats why "core" gamers are only a small percent in the gaming community because theyre hard to please. Do you even think an average gamer must read reviews or watch X-Play and atleast it have a 8.0 rating just to purchase a game that he really wants?

Lemme give you an example:

This is one member of youtube which is also a gamer showing his wii game collections:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=EdRwDiH9luI&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PN08VO169hs&feature=related

So tell me NOW are those games mostly are 1st party games? Are those games ports PS2 and PSP? (Well the ports that you think that are just port games added a little bit of waggle without consideration by developers if it works or not, just as you all say for developers to make money). Are those games full of mini games? Well theres Rayman and Monkey ball but even monkeyball have singleplay to it.

THIS video is the reason why Wii is succesful. Because of GAMES thats why it sells well, its not because it just caters to moms and kids and nongamers. Do you even wonder why Wii solds well till today even without games? Thats irrational if Wii could even survive by just shovelwares and Wii Sports.

Do you know why theres a stampede in Nintendo in E3 '06?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OeR0fL9ofYY

Tell you what, its not only because of Wii Sports


http://youtube.com/watch?v=pn4qpeNoVyA

Do you now understand?

ZenfoldorVGI said: De85 said: Agree 110%. Will the Wii have more 3rd party titles available than PS3 or 360? Yes, however the OP was ambiguously worded as "better." In my opinion quality trumps quantity, and the higher quality 3rd party games are all on PS3 and 360. That's not going to change Ah, but you can't paint in broad strokes and still be considered correct, or in opinionated terms "valid."   I think some people get offended when I say their opinion is not valid. However, what I mean is, "Your opinion has a very small chance of being correct."   Now, if I said "The PS3 has no games." My opinion would be invalid(and very childish in its presentation.)   If you say "higher quality 3rd party games are all on the PS3 and 360" your opinion would be invalid, because certainly in the Wii's lifetime even thus far it has seen some "higher quality" 3rd party games, or even just one, however, just one makes your absolutely stated opinion provably incorrect.   Instead you should say that most AAA 3rd party titles will end up on the 360 and PS3.   The devil is in the details, and sometimes how you word your opinion changes it from absolutely incorrect, to perfectly plausable, with all due respect.   In other words, I fully respect your opinion, but I think it has been proven wrong with releases of games like RE4, Okami, Bully, Guitar Hero 3, Rock Band, and Zack and Wiki.

RE4 (Port)

Okami (Port)

Gutar Hero 3 (no DLC) 

Rockband (gimped,is coming very late compare to the other versions)

Zack and Wiki (low budget game,sold badly)

 I could go on with the list,but I'm not a troll and this is just my opinion, it makes me angry when people try to make the Wii third party line up good.I am sure it will improve post-E3 but for now is poor ,saying than the wii has good third party games is like saying than the psp library is better than the DS(You see I don't hate nintendo,I own a DS).

 

naznatips said: Also, how many of you that are posting here against my post actually own a ps360? All I see is "Wii code:...." in most of your signatures. How would you know anything about what good online component, hard drive and HD graphics are worth if you don't own the consoles you are arguing against. Just FYI if all you own is a 360 and not a PC you have no idea what a good online component, a hard drive, and HD graphics are worth either. Racing games make you twist it to the side and tilt, adventure games get the nunchuk going, and shooters...well other than Metroid which was great...none of them work at all. Er... other than Metroid there aren't any playable FPS games on consoles. Dual analog controls are horrid, and other than the Wii that's all you can play on consoles. I would rather play an awful shooter with good controls like Medal of Honor Heroes 2 on Wii than play a good shooter with awful controls like Halo 3. That said, I'd rather play a good shooter with good controls than either like The Orange Box or Call of Duty 4 on PC. So now that the initial wow factor of the wii mote is starting to calm down it is time for gamecube turbo to show off what else it has in its card deck... I'm still waiting for that next gen experience where I can trash talk to people while i beat them in brawl...download demos of new games...play VC games with a freind from his house...and put the 58 inch 1080p TV to good use while playing wii games. While it's not perfect, my friends and I either use voice chat or IMs to trash talk. As well as our preset taunts in Brawl of course. Mario Kart has leaderboards, score tracking, downloadable ghost data, and 12 players online. Downloadable demos of DS games are coming to the Wii. WiiWare gives the Wii tons of online games with leaderboards and other features just like you'd find on Xbox Live. Some of them are as much as 8 players online. It's also getting support from major 3rd parties much quicker than Live Arcade ever did. Hell, some devs canceled their Live Arcade games for WiiWare. What 360 games have you been playing in 1080p? The biggest 360 game isn't even 720p. A better question is what 360 games are you playing at 60FPS? Cause I get to play all my biggest Wii games at 60FPS. Brawl, Galaxy, Mario Kart, Metroid. Kinda funny that the console not known for graphics is the only one keeping framerates at a consistent 60FPS. But, the Wii also sells games on gameplay and performance rather than pretty screenshots. So I guess it's just target audience right? More on topic: Like the DS, Wii will gain 3rd party support overtime.  It obviously won't have the kind of support the PS2 did, but in the second half the generation it should be the primary dev platform for everything but FPS games (which seem to be all anyone can develop anymore so probably won't be very many games).

Naznatips said it all and better than I ever could.
Great post, thanks naz.
Especially the 60fps is something a lot of people forget to mention, though a stable framerate is one of the most important parts in enjoying a game.

beastieboys25 said: ZenfoldorVGI said: De85 said: Agree 110%. Will the Wii have more 3rd party titles available than PS3 or 360? Yes, however the OP was ambiguously worded as "better." In my opinion quality trumps quantity, and the higher quality 3rd party games are all on PS3 and 360. That's not going to change Ah, but you can't paint in broad strokes and still be considered correct, or in opinionated terms "valid."   I think some people get offended when I say their opinion is not valid. However, what I mean is, "Your opinion has a very small chance of being correct."   Now, if I said "The PS3 has no games." My opinion would be invalid(and very childish in its presentation.)   If you say "higher quality 3rd party games are all on the PS3 and 360" your opinion would be invalid, because certainly in the Wii's lifetime even thus far it has seen some "higher quality" 3rd party games, or even just one, however, just one makes your absolutely stated opinion provably incorrect.   Instead you should say that most AAA 3rd party titles will end up on the 360 and PS3.   The devil is in the details, and sometimes how you word your opinion changes it from absolutely incorrect, to perfectly plausable, with all due respect.   In other words, I fully respect your opinion, but I think it has been proven wrong with releases of games like RE4, Okami, Bully, Guitar Hero 3, Rock Band, and Zack and Wiki.  RE4 (Port) Okami (Port) Gutar Hero 3 (no DLC)  Rockband (gimped,is coming very late compare to the other versions) Zack and Wiki (low budget game,sold badly)  I could go on with the list,but I'm not a troll and this is just my opinion, it makes me angry when people try to make the Wii third party line up good.I am sure it will improve post-E3 but for now is poor ,saying than the wii has good third party games is like saying than the psp library is better than the DS(You see I don't hate nintendo,I own a DS).

I'd like to point out few problems in your post.

One problem is, that Wii already has the best 3rd party games released this gen so far.
Another problem is, that what's wrong with ports? They are games, aren't they? Besides, if we count out ports, PS360 3rd party support doesn't look serious in any terms anymore.
Third problem was, that DLC is coming to GH3 (Wii version is said to have the best guitar) and Rockband coming to Wii indicates someone waking up to reality and giving Wii some support.
Fourth problem is that you suddenly turned sales to equal is a game good or not. Usually it takes a good game to sell good, but a game being good doesn't automatically mean good sales.

So, what you actually said to Zen, was that RE4 and Okami are good games, but they are ports (which is irrelevant) and GH3 and Rockband are good games, but less featured (they are also ports, which apparently didn't matter in this case. Less featured does matter, but the games are still on the Wii), while Zack&Wiki is a good game, but it sold badly (now this depends on Capcoms expectations) and was made with a small budget (yes, the costs are why Saturn and N64 got better 3rd party support than PSX, since devs wanted to use more money on games that are on platform that sold less). Big budget or a game being good doesn't guarantee game selling a lot, but small budget on a less selling good game usually warrants a sequel.

I can see why you didn't want to carry on, but please feel free to continue.

Better third-part support than 360 and PS3? I'm not sure that will ever happen... but it's impossible to deny that Wii third-party support has vastly increased since launch. Anyone who's been following gaming news over the last 18 months should be able to come up with numerous examples offhand. Like:

Guitar Hero 2 not on Wii, Guitar Hero 3 doing stellar sales on Wii
Rock Band not announced for Wii, now belatedly getting a Wii version
Call of Duty 3/4 not on Wii, Call of Duty 5 will be
Konami's Pro Evo soccer 07 not on Wii, 08 is (and apparently quite good)
Sonic the Hedgehog exclusive to 360/PS3, Sonic Unleashed also coming to Wii

And I'm sure you could come up with many other examples. The biggest change I've seen over the past year is more and more third-parties changing their development from 360/PS3 to 360/PS3/Wii versions, and I expect that trend to grow as we continue to move forward throughout the generation. Think about it: how many top-tier third-party games that were announced in the last few months were announced as 360/PS3 only? Some, to be sure, but not as many as at the beginning of 2007. Most of the 360/PS3 games still in development are ones that were announced years and years ago, not recent decisions. You'd better believe that if Capcom were starting work on Resident Evil 5 right now, there'd be a Wii version as well.

So we'll see more and more games appearing on all three platforms as time passes, since publishers would have to be foolish to avoid the console with the highest hardware AND software sales. Meanwhile, the Wii will continue to get many third-party exclusives as well, due to the unique nature of its control scheme. By the end of the generation, the Wii third party support should be "as good as" that on the other consoles, even if it never ends up dominating as much as its market numbers suggest it should.

beastieboys25 said: ZenfoldorVGI said: De85 said: Agree 110%. Will the Wii have more 3rd party titles available than PS3 or 360? Yes, however the OP was ambiguously worded as "better." In my opinion quality trumps quantity, and the higher quality 3rd party games are all on PS3 and 360. That's not going to change Ah, but you can't paint in broad strokes and still be considered correct, or in opinionated terms "valid."   I think some people get offended when I say their opinion is not valid. However, what I mean is, "Your opinion has a very small chance of being correct."   Now, if I said "The PS3 has no games." My opinion would be invalid(and very childish in its presentation.)   If you say "higher quality 3rd party games are all on the PS3 and 360" your opinion would be invalid, because certainly in the Wii's lifetime even thus far it has seen some "higher quality" 3rd party games, or even just one, however, just one makes your absolutely stated opinion provably incorrect.   Instead you should say that most AAA 3rd party titles will end up on the 360 and PS3.   The devil is in the details, and sometimes how you word your opinion changes it from absolutely incorrect, to perfectly plausable, with all due respect.   In other words, I fully respect your opinion, but I think it has been proven wrong with releases of games like RE4, Okami, Bully, Guitar Hero 3, Rock Band, and Zack and Wiki.  RE4 (Port) Okami (Port) Gutar Hero 3 (no DLC)  Rockband (gimped,is coming very late compare to the other versions) Zack and Wiki (low budget game,sold badly)  I could go on with the list,but I'm not a troll and this is just my opinion, it makes me angry when people try to make the Wii third party line up good.I am sure it will improve post-E3 but for now is poor ,saying than the wii has good third party games is like saying than the psp library is better than the DS(You see I don't hate nintendo,I own a DS).

Actually, one could argue that the PSP library is better, but that's even more subjective. Judging from metacritic/gamerankings, I'd say it's not much worse. Anyway, I agree with the rest of what you said. Bully is also a port. I think Z&W is overrated and isn't the best adventure game, but I know I'm in the minority on that one. No More Heroes is a great game but I believe the developer is frustrated by the sales and will put the next game on a different system. I'll join the minority of those here that believe the Wii will not have the best third party support, both from a ratings and sales standpoint. Keep in mind all multiplatform games on 360 and PS3 have a much larger userbase than the Wii, and that won't change.

windbane said: Actually, one could argue that the PSP library is better, but that's even more subjective. Judging from metacritic/gamerankings, I'd say it's not much worse. Anyway, I agree with the rest of what you said. Bully is also a port. I think Z&W is overrated and isn't the best adventure game, but I know I'm in the minority on that one. No More Heroes is a great game but I believe the developer is frustrated by the sales and will put the next game on a different system. I'll join the minority of those here that believe the Wii will not have the best third party support, both from a ratings and sales standpoint. Keep in mind all multiplatform games on 360 and PS3 have a much larger userbase than the Wii, and that won't change.

The only game that is in competition with Zack and Wiki is Sam and Max, so it is either the best or second best adventrue game on the market ...

The PS3 and XBox 360 may have a larger userbase at the moment, but they both also have much more expensive development costs. We have heard that it costs 2 to 4 times as much to produce a similar game on the XBox 360/PS3 as it does to produce a game for the Wii; if you're comparing Apples to oranges this could be much more dramatic in either way as Zack and Wiki is probably 1/30 as expensive as Gran Turismo, while singstar is probably similar to Super Mario Galaxy.

Now I think it is fair to say that a lot of third party publishers will see the Wii as a very good way to hedge against risk; for the cost of Resident Evil 5 Capcom can develop Zack and Wiki, Resident Evil: The Umbrella Chronicles and (probably) Monster Hunter 3 (and potentially have resources left over) which means that the risk of losing money from poor sales is fairly low.

Sullla said: Call of Duty 3/4 not on Wii, Call of Duty 5 will be Konami's Pro Evo soccer 07 not on Wii, 08 is (and apparently quite good) Sonic the Hedgehog exclusive to 360/PS3, Sonic Unleashed also coming to Wii

 Call of Duty 3 is on Wii.  Do you not mention Sonic and the Secret Rings on Wii because it includes a Mario Party type game?

Nickelbackro said: What is it about people always showing shock and amazement at the weakest system of this gen beating up on it's more powerful competitors. THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE CASE. Ps2 beat GCN and Xbox. Ps1 beat N64 and saturn. SNES beat the Genesis. NES beat the Master System. Heck even the Atari 2600 beat the Colecovison and Intelivision. Honestly, what makes people think this Gen is gonna be any different? My theory is that the system with the least power has to be the system to innovate, it's gotta be fun, rather than relying on visuals to sell games. And lets face it, even the worst graphics whores among us would not play a beautiful unplayable game, Gameplay has always ruled the gaming industry and always will.

 The SNES is not weaker than the Genesis.  Also, the PS1 had lots of advantages over the N64 (even though in just power, you are correct).

windbane said: Actually, one could argue that the PSP library is better, but that's even more subjective. Judging from metacritic/gamerankings, I'd say it's not much worse. Anyway, I agree with the rest of what you said. Bully is also a port. I think Z&W is overrated and isn't the best adventure game, but I know I'm in the minority on that one. No More Heroes is a great game but I believe the developer is frustrated by the sales and will put the next game on a different system. I'll join the minority of those here that believe the Wii will not have the best third party support, both from a ratings and sales standpoint. Keep in mind all multiplatform games on 360 and PS3 have a much larger userbase than the Wii, and that won't change.

When you say "frustrated" do you mean they are so happy that they threw a party because the sales were so good? Then yes, they are frustrated. Whether the next game goes to a different system probably depends on what type of game they make.