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Forums - Politics Discussion - Pittsburg Shooting Killed 11 People. Gun control?

 

What should be done about guns in the US?

Nothing 9 13.43%
 
Strict background checks 35 52.24%
 
Ban guns 18 26.87%
 
other- comment down below. 5 7.46%
 
Total:67
CuCabeludo said:

i can tell you that here in Brazil, gun control didnt work, homicides are on 30/100.000 (In US is at 4/100.000). The criminals are the only ones with access to guns, armed to the teeth even with military equipment.

When you criminalize guns, only criminals get them, it's a saying over here.


In brazil its still legal to own a gun.
Thats why it failed.

If you can legally buy a gun, some idiot is going to give it or sell it to a criminal, or a criminal will buy one legally...... somehow they ll find there ways into the hands of criminals.
That is the problem.


"When you criminalize guns, only criminals get them, it's a saying over here."

And when you can legally buy a gun, guns will circulate and eventually land in the hands of a criminal.
Then it becomes a bloodbath..... civilians arnt ment to protect society, and take on crime.

Its best if no one has guns, and you leave the work to the cops and military.

 

Imo this is just proof, that it doesnt work, to allow a population to buy guns.
Regulation doesnt work for sh*t.

Ban all guns = violence drops, gun shootings ect.

Let the police do their jobs, and give them like 20-30 years to get all the guns in circulation destroyed and away from people.
Results will be seen then, in brazil like everywhere else in the world where you cant buy guns.



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JRPGfan said:
sc94597 said:

This is not true at all. For every single Tails, there are a hundred thousand Heads. More than 99.999% of gun owners don't use their guns to murder people. That is why detecting the Tails of the world is so hard. 

Easy solution.... dont allow anyone other than cops or military to own them? seems to work everywhere else in the world.

What do we do with the >350 million already out there? Easy?



SuaveSocialist said:
sc94597 said:

This is not true at all. For every single Tails, there are a hundred thousand Heads. More than 99.999% of gun owners don't use their guns to murder people. That is why detecting the Tails of the world is so hard

Many other countries make it look so easy.  West Korea could take a look at how they pulled it off and try to improve upon the measures they take.

Well other countries instituted their gun control policies, before the rate was over 1:1 with the population.Some countries (mostly small island countries) are more successful than others. 

 

But we have already discussed this and my skepticism that any real socialist could promote the disarmament of the proletariat by the bourgeois state before. Not interested in that conversation again.



sc94597 said:
JRPGfan said:

Easy solution.... dont allow anyone other than cops or military to own them? seems to work everywhere else in the world.

What do we do with the >350 million already out there? Easy?

Thats the sh*tty part.
It ll take years and years before you see a good "effect" from banning guns, simply because of how many guns, you fools allowed to go into circulation.

But ban guns, and 30 years down the line Im sure you ll see a postive effect.
I mean if it works everywhere else in the world, why wouldnt it work in the USA? or Brazil?

The problem is the gun lobbyist wont allow such a thing to happend in the US.
Guns is big bussiness, they profit off of death & crime and people's fear of it.




JRPGfan said:
CuCabeludo said:

i can tell you that here in Brazil, gun control didnt work, homicides are on 30/100.000 (In US is at 4/100.000). The criminals are the only ones with access to guns, armed to the teeth even with military equipment.

When you criminalize guns, only criminals get them, it's a saying over here.


In brazil its still legal to own a gun.
Thats why it failed.

If you can legally buy a gun, some idiot is going to give it or sell it to a criminal, or a criminal will buy one legally...... somehow they ll find there ways into the hands of criminals.
That is the problem.


"When you criminalize guns, only criminals get them, it's a saying over here."

And when you can legally buy a gun, guns will circulate and eventually land in the hands of a criminal.
Then it becomes a bloodbath..... civilians arnt ment to protect society, and take on crime.

Its best if no one has guns, and you leave the work to the cops and military.

 

Imo this is just proof, that it doesnt work, to allow a population to buy guns.
Regulation doesnt work for sh*t.

Ban all guns = violence drops, gun shootings ect.

Let the police do their jobs, and give them like 20-30 years to get all the guns in circulation destroyed and away from people.
Results will be seen then, in brazil like everywhere else in the world where you cant buy guns.

The only weapons sold legalized here are from a brazilian company (Taurus) which have the monopoly to sell guns, manly to police, terrible pispols for a price that is about 10 times more expensive than a pistol in US due to the huge amount of taxes on it. Criminals on drug cartels get heavy military equipment from overseas, then they can sell them to smaller criminals.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 29 October 2018

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JRPGfan said:
sc94597 said:

What do we do with the >350 million already out there? Easy?

Thats the sh*tty part.
It ll take years and years before you see a good "effect" from banning guns, simply because of how many guy idoits allowed to go into circulation.

But ban guns, and 30 years down the line Im sure you ll see a postive effect.
I mean if it works everywhere else in the world, why wouldnt it work in the USA? or Brazil?

Other countries, which banned weapons outright (there are few) introduced their bans well before there was an accumulation of weapons. Japan was doing it since the 16th century.

What you are asking is for either 1. an ineffective policy or 2. the criminalization of otherwise peaceful people and more excuses for police brutality.

 

My policy is usually, "police first." If the police disarm first, then I might support putting weapons in collective municipal caches for common use, otherwise why should the common people be disarmed?



CuCabeludo said:
JRPGfan said:

The only weapons sold legalized here are from a brazilian company (Taurus) which have the monopoly to sell guns, manly to police, terrible pispols for a price that is about 10 times more expensive than a pistol in US due to the huge amount of taxes on it. Criminals on drug cartels get heavy military equipment from overseas, then they can sell them to smaller criminals.

Theres a solution to that though.... get good quality Cops and lots of them.
Tighten controll of shipping, and make sure guns dont get in.

Its possible to controll that.



sc94597 said:
JRPGfan said:

Thats the sh*tty part.
It ll take years and years before you see a good "effect" from banning guns, simply because of how many guy idoits allowed to go into circulation.

But ban guns, and 30 years down the line Im sure you ll see a postive effect.
I mean if it works everywhere else in the world, why wouldnt it work in the USA? or Brazil?

Other countries, which banned weapons outright (there are few) introduced their bans well before there was an accumulation of weapons. Japan was doing it since the 16th century.

What you are asking is for either 1. an ineffective policy or 2. the criminalization of otherwise peaceful people and more excuses for police brutality.

 

My policy is usually, "police first." If the police disarm first, then I might support putting weapons in collective municipal caches for common use, otherwise why should the common people be disarmed?

Because the "common" people are part of the problem.
And yes its gonna be hard and take forever to get all those weapons out of circulation.

But do you know what happends if you dont try?

Shit will never get fixed.


Theres a hole in my roof..... oh well it ll just drip abit, and i ll fix it by saying "thoughts and prayers".
Nothing will change unless you guys decide it needs doing.

And realistically the only way is a total ban, because regulation just doesnt work.
The sooner it goes into effect, the sooner things get better.



JRPGfan said:
CuCabeludo said:

The only weapons sold legalized here are from a brazilian company (Taurus) which have the monopoly to sell guns, manly to police, terrible pispols for a price that is about 10 times more expensive than a pistol in US due to the huge amount of taxes on it. Criminals on drug cartels get heavy military equipment from overseas, then they can sell them to smaller criminals.

Theres a solution to that though.... get good quality Cops and lots of them.
Tighten controll of shipping, and make sure guns dont get in.

Its possible to controll that.

Our borders are too huge to be conrolled, even in US borders with Mexico, which are right now much better controlled, still lots of drugs and illegal guns come to US via Mexico. Imagine here in Brazil, which has even bigger borders with not only one, but several countries, in almost each one has its own drug cartels.

Last edited by CuCabeludo - on 29 October 2018

JRPGfan said:

Because the "common" people are part of the problem.
And yes its gonna be hard and take forever to get all those weapons out of circulation.

But do you know what happends if you dont try?

Shit will never get fixed.


Theres a hole in my roof..... oh well it ll just drip abit, and i ll fix it by saying "thoughts and prayers".
Nothing will change unless you guys decide it needs doing.

And realistically the only way is a total ban, because regulation just doesnt work.
The sooner it goes into effect, the sooner things get better.

How are the common people "part of the problem"? That is a myopic perspective, which ignores the social factors which lead to the crime rates in the U.S and the mass shootings in the first place. Rather than put people in a straight-jacket, the goal should be to fix the fundamental problems which lead to people killing others: income inequality, poverty, drug criminalization, social atomization, capitalism, etc. I'd rather fix these more fundamental problems than treat symptoms. 

And you really haven't addressed the costs of banning weapons. The murder rate, police brutality rates, productive resources, etc would increase in the medium term, and time and resources would be wasted in much the fashion that they were wasted during alcohol prohibition, and our current drug prohibition. 

The U.S is too big of a country, with too many people to effectively ban guns without there being significant costs -- costs which exceed the costs of the social symptoms in the first place. 

Ending the drug war, reforming the criminal justice system, and giving a universal basic income would be miles more effective at reducing overall murder rates than banning weapons, and it wouldn't put racial, ethnic minorities, undocumented immigrants, etc at the mercy of police. 

Last edited by sc94597 - on 29 October 2018