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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan Sales Week 38 Media Create/Famitsu/Dengeki - September 17-23, 2018

Miyamotoo said:
DélioPT said:

 

He is wrong, sales of smartphones didnt effect or lower price point of consoles, actualy it made worse for handhelds, why would someone pay $250-300 for gaming handheld when they can buy smartphone/tablet that offers so much more outside only gaming even for less money or even for free through subscription. Phones/tablets made things worse for handhelds and Switch, not better. There is valid point of inflation, but when we comparing $170 from 2012. and $300 in 2018. we again talking about huge difference in any case, with adjusted inflation make difference maybe is around $20 for 3DS price point.

That really depending from price point of device itself, 3DS had price point of $250 and now you have 2DS for $80, some Switch revision will defiantly at one point have price point of around $150. People that buying secondary consoles will waiting for lower price point, not to mention families that plans to have multiply Switch units per family (device per person instead device per family).

Simple, 3DS had huge price cut because didnt sell well enough, it's simple like that, they wouldn't make huge price cut if they were satisfied with sales. So point is about sales, if Switch had bad or if Nintendo wasn't satisfied with Switch sales you can bet that Switch would have also price cut. You need that huge majority of people buying console for what consoles is offering currently not because what console will offer in year or two.

I am not assuming anything, fact is that handhelds are much popular in Japan than they are home consoles in any case. Even Wii that sold 102m in Japan sold less than 13m in Japan while 3DS sold almost 25m in Japan alone from 73m combined world wide. So yeah its very safe that in Japan huge majority see Switch on first place like handheld only. How Nintendo is marketing Switch is totally different thing, we talking about very specific market that very difrent compared to others markets.

Might!? Fact is that 3DS had huge price point advantage for same time period, just for record, Switch with price point of $300 was selling better than 3DS was selling with price of $250, 3DS start selling better in same time period only after huge price cut. Switch has own advantages, but still dont have appealing and popularity like Nintendo handheld usual have in Japan because still have high price point for handheld. Are you serious!? Even $200 Switch would destroy 3DS sales in same time period, fact is that handhelds were always much more device per person not per family, and $300 is still high price point for that appealing. Also, maybe you dont realise, but 3DS had incredible strong sales first few years in Japan, 3DS become 3rd best selling handheld/console ever in Japan, only DS and GB/GBA sold better than 3DS.

"He is wrong, sales of smartphones didnt effect or lower price point of consoles"

It's not about directly affecting prices, but more how prices are perceived.
Example: if your most expensive item was a 300$ console, other stuff under that price was, in comparison, cheaper. Now, that people are used to buying items for double that price or more, those 300$ don't look that expensive anymore.
Perceptions of prices change based on the stuff you buy.

"some Switch revision will defiantly at one point have price point of around $150"

Why should this happen? Not even MS is cutting in half their prices. And their biggest price cut came from removing Kinect and not a regular price cut.
Do you really expect Nintendo to lower their price by that much when they see their competition (PS4) making a killing at 299? Only if they want to make less money.
What the market has been telling since last gen, is that lower price tags aren't that relevant anymore. If there's a good reason to buy it at a higher price, they'll buy it - specially because they (the market) have realised that pricing won't change as before.

"I am not assuming anything, fact is that handhelds are much popular in Japan than they are home consoles in any case."

It's not about what system sells the most in Japan.
Your assumption was this: people perceive it as a handheld because they play it as a handheld the most.
I didn't even question where you got this data from. What i said is that that doesn't mean it's perceived as a handheld. Which means that they can accept price being higher as it is a different device.

"not to mention families that plans to have multiply Switch units per family (device per person instead device per family)."
Aren't you confusing this with Nintendo's desire to have families own more than one system?

"3DS had huge price cut because didnt sell well enough, it's simple like that,"
So, the lack of system sellers for a long time and lack of a vibrant release schedule, meant nothing when people considered buying a 3DS? It was just the price?

Of course Switch is selling better than 3DS at 250. It's not hard to see why.
Again, of course Switch would sell better than 3DS at 200$. But that's not the point: you are assuming that price is what's stopping Switch sales from exploding. And what i showed you is to not take that for granted.
Why? Becasue price isn't the end all be all of system sales: value perception, system sellers, hybrid concept. All these things are already decreasing the 130$ gap.



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Price cut for PS4 pro to just under 40k yen starting Oct 12:



Should see some impact but probably not a big effect to be seen in the normal weekly sales.



Megiddo said:

Price cut for PS4 pro to just under 40k yen starting Oct 12:



Should see some impact but probably not a big effect to be seen in the normal weekly sales.

I don't think it will change total PS4 sales much on the long run. Rather, I think this will change the ratio between the base and Pro models closer to parity between the two

Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 01 October 2018

Kerotan said:
DélioPT said:

He is not wrong. He brought a very good perspective to sales: 
Although sales of the handhelds and consoles haven't really changed much, as you admit, sales of smartphones and cia., have. And that actually helped to virtually lower the price of game devices (in comparison).
With that, a price tag of 300$ has a much lower impact today than it had 10 years ago. And that's not irrelevant.

You are also forgetting something that changed last gen: consoles lowering their price tags to a minimum are becoming a thing of the past and because of that gamers already now that it's not really worth waiting for a lower price point.

The 3DS price cut wasn't just because it was 250$, the console had very little meaningful support coming soon or announced to make it worthwhile paying that price.
Switch didn't have that problem. Not even close.

PS4, since launch, has only lost 25% of it's orignal price (400 to 300) and that didn't stop them from selling 80+ million units.
If Switch goes that route, it won't reach that price of around 200$ anytime soon. And by then, who knows how the market will be.

"offcourse that in Japan $170 3DS will sell better than $300 Switch simple because $300 is high price to start like Nintendo handhelds usually selling in Japan"
  You are assuming that because people mainly use it for playing on the go, that it means they see it as a handheld.
Nintendo, from the start, has been selling it as a home console on the go.
It's very much expectable for japanese consumers to see it as such and, therefore, thinking differently about the 300$ price point.

As i said, 3DS might have the price advantage, but Switch has it's own advantages.
And if i'm not mistaken, at this point in time, 3DS only had Mario and Mario Kart to sell the console. Switch has that, plus Zelda, Splatoon 2 and the TV gaming bonus.
Can the 130$ price difference really explain the sales gap? Given the hype and what's on the way, i don't think so.

Very well said. It's actually crazy to think ps4 sales exploded from launch to 80m and its price hasn't even dropped permanently that much since launch. 

Totally different things, PS4 launch price was $400 and currently officially is $300 you could even buy it for $200 not to mention $250, so thats (even $300) usual price point for home consoles, Switch still has launch price point and $300 that not price point of handheld in any case.

 

DélioPT said: 
Miyamotoo said: 

He is wrong, sales of smartphones didnt effect or lower price point of consoles, actualy it made worse for handhelds, why would someone pay $250-300 for gaming handheld when they can buy smartphone/tablet that offers so much more outside only gaming even for less money or even for free through subscription. Phones/tablets made things worse for handhelds and Switch, not better. There is valid point of inflation, but when we comparing $170 from 2012. and $300 in 2018. we again talking about huge difference in any case, with adjusted inflation make difference maybe is around $20 for 3DS price point.

That really depending from price point of device itself, 3DS had price point of $250 and now you have 2DS for $80, some Switch revision will defiantly at one point have price point of around $150. People that buying secondary consoles will waiting for lower price point, not to mention families that plans to have multiply Switch units per family (device per person instead device per family).

Simple, 3DS had huge price cut because didnt sell well enough, it's simple like that, they wouldn't make huge price cut if they were satisfied with sales. So point is about sales, if Switch had bad or if Nintendo wasn't satisfied with Switch sales you can bet that Switch would have also price cut. You need that huge majority of people buying console for what consoles is offering currently not because what console will offer in year or two.

I am not assuming anything, fact is that handhelds are much popular in Japan than they are home consoles in any case. Even Wii that sold 102m in Japan sold less than 13m in Japan while 3DS sold almost 25m in Japan alone from 73m combined world wide. So yeah its very safe that in Japan huge majority see Switch on first place like handheld only. How Nintendo is marketing Switch is totally different thing, we talking about very specific market that very difrent compared to others markets.

Might!? Fact is that 3DS had huge price point advantage for same time period, just for record, Switch with price point of $300 was selling better than 3DS was selling with price of $250, 3DS start selling better in same time period only after huge price cut. Switch has own advantages, but still dont have appealing and popularity like Nintendo handheld usual have in Japan because still have high price point for handheld. Are you serious!? Even $200 Switch would destroy 3DS sales in same time period, fact is that handhelds were always much more device per person not per family, and $300 is still high price point for that appealing. Also, maybe you dont realise, but 3DS had incredible strong sales first few years in Japan, 3DS become 3rd best selling handheld/console ever in Japan, only DS and GB/GBA sold better than 3DS.

"He is wrong, sales of smartphones didnt effect or lower price point of consoles"

It's not about directly affecting prices, but more how prices are perceived.
Example: if your most expensive item was a 300$ console, other stuff under that price was, in comparison, cheaper. Now, that people are used to buying items for double that price or more, those 300$ don't look that expensive anymore.
Perceptions of prices change based on the stuff you buy.

"some Switch revision will defiantly at one point have price point of around $150"

Why should this happen? Not even MS is cutting in half their prices. And their biggest price cut came from removing Kinect and not a regular price cut.
Do you really expect Nintendo to lower their price by that much when they see their competition (PS4) making a killing at 299? Only if they want to make less money.
What the market has been telling since last gen, is that lower price tags aren't that relevant anymore. If there's a good reason to buy it at a higher price, they'll buy it - specially because they (the market) have realised that pricing won't change as before.

"I am not assuming anything, fact is that handhelds are much popular in Japan than they are home consoles in any case."

It's not about what system sells the most in Japan.
Your assumption was this: people perceive it as a handheld because they play it as a handheld the most.
I didn't even question where you got this data from. What i said is that that doesn't mean it's perceived as a handheld. Which means that they can accept price being higher as it is a different device.

"not to mention families that plans to have multiply Switch units per family (device per person instead device per family)."
Aren't you confusing this with Nintendo's desire to have families own more than one system?

"3DS had huge price cut because didnt sell well enough, it's simple like that,"
So, the lack of system sellers for a long time and lack of a vibrant release schedule, meant nothing when people considered buying a 3DS? It was just the price?

Of course Switch is selling better than 3DS at 250. It's not hard to see why.
Again, of course Switch would sell better than 3DS at 200$. But that's not the point: you are assuming that price is what's stopping Switch sales from exploding. And what i showed you is to not take that for granted.
Why? Becasue price isn't the end all be all of system sales: value perception, system sellers, hybrid concept. All these things are already decreasing the 130$ gap.

I already explained why that didn't affect in positive way if comparing with consoles, and actually compared with handhelds effected in negative way, like I explained.

You don't read and pay attention, I wrote: "some Switch revision will defiantly at one point have price point of around $150", not that they will make price cut of  $150 in one price cut, first price cut for Switch will of course be only $50, and fact is that almost every handheld/console out there at one point had at least twice lower price point compared to launch price point. official price point for PS4 is $300, but PS4 very often has price point much lower than official price point, for instance  last November PS4 had price point of $200 during Black Friday deals when it killed with sales. So yeah price cuts always effecting sales espacily in rong long, and that esapcily goes for handhelds (people dont want to pay less for handheld compaerd to home consoles) or in this case of Switch where Nintendo planing to sell Switch like device per person instead device per family like other home consoles.

Ofcourse I am, its logical to assume when handhelds are incomparible much more popular than home consoles in Japan and that because of that they will look at Switch on first place like handheld.

No, you can bet that plenty of people for instance would love to buy to each their kid Switch but price is still high for something like that so they buying Switch per family curently, actually reason why handhelds always selling much more than home consoles in Japan is point that handhelds selling multiply per family.

Huge majority of people buying system for what is offering now, not what will system offer in year-two, you have hard time realising that. Fact that 3DS sales explode right after price cut proves that.

You again ignoring fact that $300 is still high to have sales and popularity like Nintendo handhelds usualy have in Japan, and high price point in order to Switch start selling like device per person. You didnt show me anything, your points dont make sense or they are very weak, so again I don't see point contine replying to you, so I will not reply you any more.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 01 October 2018

Megiddo said:

Price cut for PS4 pro to just under 40k yen starting Oct 12:



Should see some impact but probably not a big effect to be seen in the normal weekly sales.

Why the pro?



Pocky Lover Boy! 

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Jranation said:
Megiddo said:

Price cut for PS4 pro to just under 40k yen starting Oct 12:



Should see some impact but probably not a big effect to be seen in the normal weekly sales.

Why the pro?

The pro was the most in expensive in Japan relative to the slim PS4 before this price cut. It was 30k yen for a slim and 45k yen for a pro, so a pro was 50% more. Whereas in NA/Europe it's 300 dollars/Euros for a slim and 400 dollars/Euros for a pro, so a pro is 33% more. This drop in Japan just puts it at the same level elsewhere in terms of pricing relative to the slim.



Jranation said:
Megiddo said:

Price cut for PS4 pro to just under 40k yen starting Oct 12:



Should see some impact but probably not a big effect to be seen in the normal weekly sales.

Why the pro?

Most probably more profitable. Apart from the casing, the only thing that really changes is the CPU/GPU SoC, and since that one is in 14nm about the same size as the PS4 chip at 28nm, the price is actually very similar despite being twice as powerful