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Forums - Gaming Discussion - What exactly do you consider to be "SJW agenda" in games?

 

Does the inclusion of women in BFV bother you?

Yes 15 22.06%
 
No 53 77.94%
 
Total:68
Lafiel said:

Firstly, Battlefield 5 is by faaaar not the first in the series to have events or characters that didn't exist/happen or were rewritten to be more manageable to the modern palate, were you complaining back then? There are tons and tons of games releasing each year that are altered that way and not "to fit with moral standards some people have today", but to fit the sensibilities of the main target-audience (US/western 14-40 year old males) and we let it slide? Why? Because these games have no claim to historical accuracy, they are not works of historians and not used/ment to educate.

Wait! Are you saying that the story told in Battlefield: Bad Company 1 & 2 wasn't a documentation either?

Well, at least the Wolfenstein series kept its focus on historic accuracy than on entertaining the players!



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EA came out and said they weren't going for historical accuracy for BFV, and they altered many of the BF1 to make gameplay faster-paced.

On the flip side, Kingdom Come Deliverance - a game that really did go all out for historical accuracy- had criticism because it wasn't racially diverse, with the only non-white faction being invaders. I like diversity in gaming but sometimes I think people just want to get offended so they have an excuse to lose their shit - in this case it wasn't a battle worth fighting.



TheBird said:
EA made it so damn clear that they are pushing an agenda here and trying to rewrite history when they try to say that BFV is a historically accurate game

https://web.archive.org/web/20180530140512/http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/05/24/battlefield-v-producer-says-dice-will-always-put-fun-over-authentic

They've said they're going for fun, not authentic (although from my point of view I don't think they do the former well either) so I don't get where you're coming from when you claim they're trying to be historically accurate.



Faelco said:

The Star Wars controversy is a good example. The Last Jedi had a lot of plot flaws and a lot of poorly written and handled stuff that fans didn't like, but if you say that you didn't like it, then you're a stupid reactionary far right supporter. The character of Rose is very poorly written, with an awful face-palming plot full of logical flaws and angrying decisions, but people who don't like her are racist and misogynistic because nobody is allowed to complain about a female Asian character, even if the very numerous flaws have nothing to do with her race or gender. Fans were also racist Nazis when they complained about Jar-Jar! 

The Last Jedi was a flaming hot mess for all those reasons and more, a fuckup almost beyond my imagination although my expectations already were low after TFA. Yet people that call the incredible clumsily protrait "nature loving (more so than slave-children), engineer, ex slave, resistence ultra" that is ultimately exposed as a rushing-into-romance-for-the-sake-of-having-a-pairing character called Rose the "yellow/asian bitch" and the enigmatic-for the-sake-of-being-enigmatic and therefore wholely unlikeable and needlessly sacrificed before we have a chance to get to know anything about her character admiral Holdo the "purple SJW bitch" are simply sexists and racists. Even if they make sensible points aswell they always come stained with an agenda.



There is a difference between including and pandering. When the latter is too obvious I count it as bad writing. Not sure if it is a SJW agenda. Its more an SJW when a de is going to insult its audience when they disagree about the pandering. The Lesbian kiss in Tlou 2 is not pushing a SJW agenda.

But if the narrative over the whole game is only women can kick the asses of men and men can only hurt men, I would say it is bad writing. If someone complaints about it and ND is going to call everyone sexist who does that. If they do that they are pushing an SJW agenda.

Now I hope they will not, but seeing how invincible Nadine was, it could be. Though she was a lot better in Lost Legacy as a character. For now I doubt if Tlou 2 wants to push a narrative like that and its rather luck than intended that the women in Tlou 2 seem a bit invincible (in the few trailers I have seen) . There will probably be some male antagonist (lacked) out there which forms a thread to Ellie and her friends.

Which was Star Wars biggest mistake nothing and no one even remotely forms a thread to Rey. Although I doubt its pushing an agenda it is just poor writing. As for BFV its not the inclusion of women that bothers me its the inclusion of a cybernetic superwoman that bothers me and EA's reaction to gamers who thinks that a game based on ww2 should be at least give a credible picture of ww2. 

Last edited by Qwark - on 26 August 2018

Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

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SecondWar said:
TheBird said:
EA made it so damn clear that they are pushing an agenda here and trying to rewrite history when they try to say that BFV is a historically accurate game

https://web.archive.org/web/20180530140512/http://www.ign.com/articles/2018/05/24/battlefield-v-producer-says-dice-will-always-put-fun-over-authentic

They've said they're going for fun, not authentic (although from my point of view I don't think they do the former well either) so I don't get where you're coming from when you claim they're trying to be historically accurate.

EA former Chief Creative Officer (Soderlund, who "quit" recently) said:

"These are people who are uneducated — they don’t understand that this is a plausible scenario"

 

So, women with prosthetic arms and katanas attacking the Germans on the frontline are a "plausible scenario", and you're uneducated if you disagree. 

 

Wow, I wonder why some people decided not to buy the game! 

Last edited by Faelco - on 26 August 2018

Thanks for the thread, I was about to make one on this topic, but you covered.
The riot on BFV was not proportional, is far beyond we have seen for any other game.
We have seen lots of games representing woman and are not accused of following an SJW agenda.I really cant understand BFV is forced SJW and other tons are not, even the ones that do not care about creating a specific plot to include diversity, molding the game design for it.
What is happening here. This case got big because BFV is a big game, and lots of players bought this idea that they never realized before: they dont want to play their big war FPS game as a woman, so, they starting blaming the company of forcing SJW agenda (inventing lots of excuses, like not being historically accurate).



LuccaCardoso1 said:
Faelco said:
I never use that term, but Battlefield is a good example of rewriting history to make it fit with the morals that some people have today.

Like making Achilles or a British Queen black. "History hurts my feeling, so we should modify History to make it according to my principles". It's a very dangerous slope, and is usually used in totalitarian regimes or dystopias.

If you read books like 1984, A brave new world or Fahrenheit 451, you would recognize some obvious patterns that our society started to follow lately. Fahrenheit 451, particularly, explains that it became a society of forbidden (and burned) knowledge and culture because of "SJW". They explain that some small groups of people started to make forbidden stuff that offended them, like books or shows, and it became worse and worse, to the point where almost all scientific knowledge, history, or culture is banned from society. Because it's offensive and can hurt the feelings of people.

History is History. It's bad? Then good, it will show to new generations what to do or not. But rewriting History because it offenses you? Who those people think they are?

The point is: EA is not rewriting history because people can get offended that women are not included. They're including women because women play games, and EA wants their money. Get it? Putting women in BFV is as inaccurate as having weapons never jam in BF1. And both decisions were made so that EA can get more money. If you're mad at BFV for having women, you should also be mad at BF1 for including WWII cannons in it, at CoD WWII for having a cannon shoot twice as fast as it would in the real war and at any other war game, because none of them is 100% historically accurate.

Or you can just think a bit about it and get to the conclusion that they're meant to be games, not documentaries. They don't claim to be 100% accurate. It's like complaining about Mario's fireballs working underwater because that would never happen in the real world.

If I want to play a game set in either WW1 or Ww2 I want it to be credible.If it isn't I will not buy it. And having concept fully automatic weapons in WW1 was already a good indication. Having women with prostetic arms and katana's on the front line is everything but credible. Appearently more gamers think so and they are not excited for this game. If EA betted on getting more sales that way they betted wrong and there is no reason to feel sorry for them. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

ARamdomGamer said:
Adding "minorities" to my established franchises that had no minorities is bad.

Making new IPs with said "minorities" as part of the universe is also bad.

There is no winning here. It will always be forced, an agenda, pandering.

Yeah remember the out rage on Lara Croft, GTA, Horizon Zero Dawn, Detroit, Until Dawn, Uncharted, Tlou part 1 and the DLC. About starring a minority protagonist. I don't they all sold great. 



Please excuse my (probally) poor grammar

This is already explained by multiple users in the threads you're referring to. I doubt that you're interested in a discussion or the answers that anyone might give considering the way you framed this.