Found this: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000973033/article/bleak-times-for-giants-fitzgerald-backs-rosen-kelce-connection

Practically from the moment it began -- almost literally, because Eli Manningforced a throw on the Giants' second offensive play of the game to a third-string tight end in double coverage, resulting in the inevitable interception -- the Giants were overmatched and outclassed. Their offensive line was often overwhelmed. Their defense frequently looked listless. Defenses are keying on making Odell Beckham Jr. a non-factor and it is working. And Manning was terrible, too, beyond the fact that he was under pressure. He was off target when he did throw downfield, and that wasn't often. He checked down so relentlessly that TV cameras caught coach Pat Shurmur, a steady defender of Manning, appearing to yell "throw the ball" in frustration. Manning, who gave the Giants two Super Bowl championships and is such a beloved player that his benching last season -- however deserved it was -- provoked fan outrage, heard boos. Two straight 1-5 starts to the season will do that.

I'd say we are at a point where not even Giants fans would defend the Giants. Shame on MTZehvor.

Week 5 of 2016... no memory of such a thing. Let me check.

Packers won 23-16 against the Giants. The irony. Not only did the Packers win contrary to what you said, but they defeated the hapless Giants that you seem to defend at all costs.

Your hyperbole isn't any better. I am reminded of the time when you argued that the QB position in American football isn't the most important and impactful position by far. You have to learn to admit that you are wrong when you opened with a really bad argument. Don't drag it out like Bravely Default and pass it off as sound.

Remember, this year's Giants have a record of 1-5 and it's evident that they won't be able to turn this season around, because the team sucks at too many positions, including QB. That's why I said we are at a point where not even Giants fans would defend this team. You continue to liken this to the situation of the Packers being 3-2 when Packers fans certainly didn't throw in the the towel for that season. They were frustrated by a clear loss, sure, but it's beyond doubt that fans were still expecting playoffs at the end of the season, if somebody asked them that question.

I said that you seem to defend the Giants at all costs which then led to the real conclusion in my previous post: You are defending yourself because you can't admit how wrong you were. All of this started when I told you that you say disturbingly nice things about a team that is total crap, because you don't want to come across as a hater. Everyone who frequents the NFL thread knows that you are a Patriots fan and most people remember that the Patriots fell to the Giants in the Super Bowl, twice. It would be natural for a Patriots fan to hate the Giants, but you don't want to be put in that corner. The whole point here is that it wouldn't make you or anyone else a hater if the Giants got called crap and their front office a bunch of idiots; this year's Giants are really that bad. You are free to say that the Giants suck donkey balls.

Also, the discussions with you tend to quickly drift into complete seriousness. I find myself in a fight because of something that was essentially a one-liner, one of those jokes that are funny because they are true. You don't want to be perceived as a Patriots fan who is still bitter because of two losses to the Giants in the Super Bowl. But remember, in both of those years the Giants visited Lambeau Field and took advantage of Packers teams that were off the mark in all three phases of the game on those given days. But that was then and this is now. I am a Packers fan and have no fears to call the 2018 Giants crap, because objectively they are crap.

Changing two picks after reading up on injuries.

Greg Olsen returns for the Panthers while Crowder and Thompson will be out for the Redskins. Peterson is apparently a bit banged up, so the Redskins' weapons are limited.

The Dolphins are apparently still not sure if Tannehill will play with a right shoulder injury. The Bears have Mack on defense, so this uncertainty at QB makes it very hard to trust the Dolphins. Not that I trusted them much before, because the Bears defense is legit.

Changing two picks after reading up on injuries.

Greg Olsen returns for the Panthers while Crowder and Thompson will be out for the Redskins. Peterson is apparently a bit banged up, so the Redskins' weapons are limited.

The Dolphins are apparently still not sure if Tannehill will play with a right shoulder injury. The Bears have Mack on defense, so this uncertainty at QB makes it very hard to trust the Dolphins. Not that I trusted them much before, because the Bears defense is legit.