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Forums - Politics Discussion - Starbucks Billionaire: You Can’t Have Healthcare Or College

contestgamer said:
Rab said:

You're not wrong in saying many do travel to the US for serious illnesses, the US at the highest level can supply some of the best care, but what really helps the UHC system is the cheaper preventative care option due to people generally in UHC systems visiting their Dr's far more regularly because it's cheaper to do so, this has the knock on effect of people being less seriously sick later on, not needing these expensive later options when health issues get serious because it was left too late 

Basically in a nutshell if your on a UHC you will visit the Dr more because it's cheap and preventing many of your illness getting more serious leading to less people needing the expensive options later

In the current US system, people hold off from visiting their Dr due to higher costs until the illness is more serious, this stimulates spending and research into areas of late/serious health issues, but overall results are lower in health outcomes and life expectancy as seen in World data where the US does poorly in overall health outcomes   

  

hm, never looked at it that way. Makes sense. Can we still have private healthcare options like we do now at the highest level if we have a public option? For people that want fast care/no wait times or just can afford top level care for a serious illness?

Many countries around the world have both public and private healthcare, so there's no reason why one would exclude the other. What's happening right now though is that private insurers are buying American politicians (in both parties) to ensure that public healthcare doesn't get anymore entrenched because they all know most people would leave the private healthcare system for the public one since the government will be able to better negotiate and result in cheaper healthcare overall.



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Wyrdness said:
lightningfunk said:

the people arguing that there should be free stuff really need to hit rock bottom so that they can learn something new like economics

It's best you don't make comments like these because the are countries where health care and education are integrated into the system the way people want.

Starbucks makes a fortune selling overpriced coffee and the employees aren't making a lot of money. If they paid exceptionally well and gave health benefits, I'd be more impressed. Also, employed people are generally healthy. They can also fire people and pull those benefits.

Now I would like the government to come up with some sort of affordable public healthcare solution, but thus far dems are more talk than viable ideas. The solutions they do suggest are never affordable either which is why no single state has tried it.

On a side note, a vast majority of the country does have healthcare. I'm guessing many who don't have healtcare, don't even bother looking at the Obamacare website. If you're poor (around or under $20K a year) you probably qualify for free healthcare or a big subsidy.

Honestly, many are just ignorant to their options when they may qualify for a low cost healthcare plan. Some people just don't want to pay any premiums even if they're relatively small.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 12 August 2018

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Mr Puggsly said:

If you're poor (around or under $20K a year) you probably qualify for free healthcare or a big subsidy.

Not if they live in a state governed by sociopaths like Texas which did not expand Medicaid. Subsidies are not available for the poorest out there.



Megiddo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

If you're poor (around or under $20K a year) you probably qualify for free healthcare or a big subsidy.

Not if they live in a state governed by sociopaths like Texas which did not expand Medicaid. Subsidies are not available for the poorest out there.

Instead of reading bullshit I decided to check the website myself.

I went to Healthcare.gov, put in a Austin Texas zip code, put in $20K for expected income. That qualifies for $299 a month subsidy which virtually covers a health plan.

It would still cost you about $200 a month out of pocket for a good plan (low copays and deductible). Frankly, that's pretty reasonable. You could even pay $2.63 a month for a plan that has a high deductible ($5000) but low copays. Or $80 month for something better but cheaper than the superior $200 a month plan, etc. Hence, if you're relatively poor the government is already catering to you in some form.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 13 August 2018

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We have universal healthcare in Israel and College/Uni is fairly cheap.



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VAMatt said:
DirtyP2002 said:

Germany has 100% free education and a very decent healthcare and social security system established. Germany reported a budget surplus of 25 billion Euro (28 billion USD).
That means Germany actually made a profit.

This is not true.  There is no free education anywhere.  That is not possible.  

As for a budget surplus, no, that's not profit  That just means they stole more money from the taxpayers than they should have.  

SPIN!

You don't have to pay for education in Germany. Sure taxes will be spent here, but there is no extra fee or anything like it for it.

 

I am not saying Germany is the greatest country on this planet, even though I reall like living here and think it is a great country to raise my children. I will probably never leave it.
I am just pointing out that there is a way to let people have free access to education and health care AND have a great and strong economy at the same time.



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

contestgamer said:
Rab said:

You're not wrong in saying many do travel to the US for serious illnesses, the US at the highest level can supply some of the best care, but what really helps the UHC system is the cheaper preventative care option due to people generally in UHC systems visiting their Dr's far more regularly because it's cheaper to do so, this has the knock on effect of people being less seriously sick later on, not needing these expensive later options when health issues get serious because it was left too late 

Basically in a nutshell if your on a UHC you will visit the Dr more because it's cheap and preventing many of your illness getting more serious leading to less people needing the expensive options later

In the current US system, people hold off from visiting their Dr due to higher costs until the illness is more serious, this stimulates spending and research into areas of late/serious health issues, but overall results are lower in health outcomes and life expectancy as seen in World data where the US does poorly in overall health outcomes   

  

hm, never looked at it that way. Makes sense. Can we still have private healthcare options like we do now at the highest level if we have a public option? For people that want fast care/no wait times or just can afford top level care for a serious illness?

Generally there's some private healthcare to supplement public healthcare in the countries that have it. Most of the time the public healthcare gives a high basic coverage and the public ones extend over this by either covering things public healthcare doesn't or not as extensive, or they give you better options, live private hospital rooms, better meals in hospitals, and so on. Most private healthcare companies do a mix of both.

You don't pay very much for the private healthcare either since most is already covered by the public. Generally even with both public healthcare and the best and most expensive private healthcare plan, you're still a ways cheaper than hospitals in the US.

Some countries also have mandatory healthcare travel insurance when traveling to the US, to make sure their inhabitants are covered and don't have to pay the US prices. In most cases, this includes flying you back home to your country on their costs on serious sicknesses or accidents as the transport in an ambulance flight plus treatment in an hospital at home is cheaper than having to cover for the same treatment in the US.



numberwang said:
acer67 said:

why isnt everybody in the world trying to move to germany?

The third world is...

Half of the Third World has better healthcare than the United States (and some better than Germany, if Costa Rica is anything to go by)... 

 

Let that sink in... 



Mr Puggsly said:
Megiddo said:

Not if they live in a state governed by sociopaths like Texas which did not expand Medicaid. Subsidies are not available for the poorest out there.

Instead of reading bullshit I decided to check the website myself.

I went to Healthcare.gov, put in a Austin Texas zip code, put in $20K for expected income. That qualifies for $299 a month subsidy which virtually covers a health plan.

It would still cost you about $200 a month out of pocket for a good plan (low copays and deductible). Frankly, that's pretty reasonable. You could even pay $2.63 a month for a plan that has a high deductible ($5000) but low copays. Or $80 month for something better but cheaper than the superior $200 a month plan, etc. Hence, if you're relatively poor the government is already catering to you in some form.

I said the poorest out there. You don't have any idea what the 'poorest' means if you think an individual with a 20k expected income is poor.

https://www.kff.org/medicaid/issue-brief/the-coverage-gap-uninsured-poor-adults-in-states-that-do-not-expand-medicaid/

Go try the same thing and put 10k expected income instead. Or do 20k with 4 dependents.

Last edited by Megiddo - on 13 August 2018

Funny we have both here in Germany. Basically for free btw.