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Forums - Politics Discussion - Starbucks Billionaire: You Can’t Have Healthcare Or College

Mr Puggsly on 21 August 2018
Rab said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I'm suggesting a massive country like the US is different than a tiny country like Denmark. Not just in population, but the size of the country.

If the 50 states became 50 countries, we'd see massive changes on how those states are run due to differing ideologies in certain regions. Its not an excuse, its an obvious truth. Some of these new countries would shift to a welfare state with varying degrees of success. Many people would also move to the less the taxed countries to avoid massive taxing like Denmark. Much like Europe, they wouldn't all share the same ideas on taxing, immigration, etc.

First and foremost, the US needs to get better at spending and simply being more efficient with spending. If you want to shift into a welfare state, that's kind of important.

Obvious truth? Jeez, what's up with all this cognitive bias BS, people are so imbedded in their fairy kingdom thinking 

With larger countries you have efficiencies of scale, but really anything can be managed at any scale, conservatives use the "size" excuse but have never actually shown any evidence, pretty much what that FOX Anchor did with her cognitive bias shining like a beacon

If you truly want to convince people of your argument, then stop with the excuses and and the same FOX one-liners

WELL its easier to move into a socialized welfare state when the people share the same ideologies and willingness to be taxed up the ass (such as the tiny country of Denmark). In the US, region to region some would be more open to it than others. This is reality/obvious truth and you would know that if you live in the US. Hence, if a president promised socialized healthcare with a massive tax increase, he would likely lose or hurt the party significantly in much of the country. I actually like some of the changes Obama made to healthcare, but the massive premium increases did not make him popular among the working class. Bear in mind, Obama promised to lower premiums and failed miserably at that.

Most importantly, spending on US healthcare is simply too high and we already spend a fortune covering about 30% of the population with free or heavily subsidized healthcare. So that means the government needs to find cheaper ways to get healthcare to people relying on taxed funded healthcare or price control. However, based on the horrible job our government did giving healthcare to veterans, people continued to lose faith in our government to provide healthcare.

So first and foremost, I believe our government needs to get better at providing healthcare and do it for less. Or maybe throw money at private companies that can do it. Otherwise do price controls and hope they don't fuck things up.

I'm not saying providing some sort of "free" healthcare for the country is impossible, I'm saying you aren't considering why its an unpopular idea. You simply haven't seen our government in action.



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Lawlight on 21 August 2018
Proxy-Pie said:
We have universal healthcare in Israel and College/Uni is fairly cheap.

Population of 8M and low average salary.



Rab on 21 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
Rab said:

Obvious truth? Jeez, what's up with all this cognitive bias BS, people are so imbedded in their fairy kingdom thinking 

With larger countries you have efficiencies of scale, but really anything can be managed at any scale, conservatives use the "size" excuse but have never actually shown any evidence, pretty much what that FOX Anchor did with her cognitive bias shining like a beacon

If you truly want to convince people of your argument, then stop with the excuses and and the same FOX one-liners

WELL its easier to move into a socialized welfare state when the people share the same ideologies and willingness to be taxed up the ass (such as the tiny country of Denmark). In the US, region to region some would be more open to it than others. This is reality/obvious truth and you would know that if you live in the US. Hence, if a president promised socialized healthcare with a massive tax increase, he would likely lose or hurt the party significantly in much of the country. I actually like some of the changes Obama made to healthcare, but the massive premium increases did not make him popular among the working class. Bear in mind, Obama promised to lower premiums and failed miserably at that.

Most importantly, spending on US healthcare is simply too high and we already spend a fortune covering about 30% of the population with free or heavily subsidized healthcare. So that means the government needs to find cheaper ways to get healthcare to people relying on taxed funded healthcare or price control. However, based on the horrible job our government did giving healthcare to veterans, people continued to lose faith in our government to provide healthcare.

So first and foremost, I believe our government needs to get better at providing healthcare and do it for less. Or maybe throw money at private companies that can do it. Otherwise do price controls and hope they don't fuck things up.

I'm not saying providing some sort of "free" healthcare for the country is impossible, I'm saying you aren't considering why its an unpopular idea. You simply haven't seen our government in action.

Just put it in here, you guys obviously don't want to try, keep the excuses coming if it's comforting  



Mr Puggsly on 21 August 2018
Machiavellian said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Republicans didn't just oppose Obama because they wanted to make him look bad, they simply have different ideologies. Its like trying to get democrats to support anything Trump does, even stuff people actually want like getting tough on immigration and lower taxes.

I think American people primarily just want cheaper and easier access to healthcare plans. I'm more in the center about this. I do see Healthcare.gov as a good solution to help the minority in this country that don't quite have access to good healthcare for various reasons. It arguably needs better options though and perhaps the subsidies can be overly generous in country with many safety nets already.

Right now though democrats are leaning into the single payer idea more than fixing Obamacare. Obama felt like a moderate compared to where dems are going now.

There is a difference between different ideologies and just plain stubborn denial.

https://www.politico.com/story/2010/10/the-gops-no-compromise-pledge-044311

Or you can watch this video on how Republicans whole stragety was to oppose Obama on everything even if it helped or supported things they wanted

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/the-republicans-plan-for-the-new-president/

Democrats never supported lower taxes and Obama administration was considered pretty tough when it comes to immigration.  I guess going the extra mile and taking children without any means to get them back to their parents wasn't tough enough but to each their own.

The American healthcare system is pretty broken and will remain so.  The cost will continue to go sky high and for all the people saying how great it is that you have the Cleveland or Mayo clinic, when a time comes when they need that insurance they believe will cover them for some expensive procedure, medication or medical expense and get turned down, is when they realize the US can have all the great tech and drugs in the world but doesn't mean anything if you cannot get access to it.  Having your savings nuked, pleading with your friends and neighbors to help never feels good and all the while more options are taken away because its too expensive to keep you alive.  No one think about these social services until you need it then it's a whole different story.

A single payer system will never happen in the US because big insurance companies will make sure as they always have to make it go away.  The discussion still needs to happen because it seems people really are way to concerned how much money big insurance companies make compared to how many lives can be saved.  I am not saying that Insurance companies should not make money but the cost of everything needs to be put in check.  If my doctor charges me 60 bucks to a simple procedure you can do at home for 5 bucks or less, that's where the bloat comes in.  Its that kind of bloat within the system I keep hearing people champion saying this is how it is.  With that kind of thinking there will never be any change in the US, because no one wants to put any effort.

Certainly in the modern era of politics the democrats don't push for lower taxes, nor did I say they did. I said lower taxes is a popular idea the democrats oppose.

Obama was indeed considered tough on immigration and he boasted about kicking people out. Today though... the media equates those kind of policies to Nazi Germany. Maybe even a blemish in his time in office.

The separating kids from the parents thing is a lot more complicated then the media spins it. Some aren't even the parents, some get raped along the way, and much of it could be avoided if they simply didn't attempt to enter the country illegally. Simply sending people back seems more complicated than it ought to be.

The government has the ability to find ways to provide healthcare at a lower cost. That's what the government funded healthcare plans attempt to do. I argue the government should focus on making procedure that bankrupt people cheaper and get their nose out of the cheap procedures most of us can afford easily. If we paid for the simple procedure and cheap stuff our self, then we would price shop better than the government and healthcare providers do. But many will argue we need the government and healthcare plans to cover everything, so we get more bloat.

Last edited by Mr Puggsly - on 21 August 2018

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Mr Puggsly on 21 August 2018
Rab said:
Mr Puggsly said:

WELL its easier to move into a socialized welfare state when the people share the same ideologies and willingness to be taxed up the ass (such as the tiny country of Denmark). In the US, region to region some would be more open to it than others. This is reality/obvious truth and you would know that if you live in the US. Hence, if a president promised socialized healthcare with a massive tax increase, he would likely lose or hurt the party significantly in much of the country. I actually like some of the changes Obama made to healthcare, but the massive premium increases did not make him popular among the working class. Bear in mind, Obama promised to lower premiums and failed miserably at that.

Most importantly, spending on US healthcare is simply too high and we already spend a fortune covering about 30% of the population with free or heavily subsidized healthcare. So that means the government needs to find cheaper ways to get healthcare to people relying on taxed funded healthcare or price control. However, based on the horrible job our government did giving healthcare to veterans, people continued to lose faith in our government to provide healthcare.

So first and foremost, I believe our government needs to get better at providing healthcare and do it for less. Or maybe throw money at private companies that can do it. Otherwise do price controls and hope they don't fuck things up.

I'm not saying providing some sort of "free" healthcare for the country is impossible, I'm saying you aren't considering why its an unpopular idea. You simply haven't seen our government in action.

Just put it in here, you guys obviously don't want to try, keep the excuses coming if it's comforting  

 

Hah, is this that fairy kingdom you were referring to earlier?

"C'mon guys, just try! I live in a small homogenous country, so I know everything."

"Hey people in the middle east, why don't you just TRY peace? Its all so simple."



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Rab on 21 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
Rab said:

Just put it in here, you guys obviously don't want to try, keep the excuses coming if it's comforting  

 

Hah, is this that fairy kingdom you were referring to earlier?

"C'mon guys, just try! I live in a small homogenous country, so I know everything."

"Hey people in the middle east, why don't you just TRY peace? Its all so simple."

Lots of self comforting, sleep easy now you have earned it  



Mr Puggsly on 21 August 2018
Rab said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Hah, is this that fairy kingdom you were referring to earlier?

"C'mon guys, just try! I live in a small homogenous country, so I know everything."

"Hey people in the middle east, why don't you just TRY peace? Its all so simple."

Lots of self comforting, sleep easy now you have earned it  

 

I always tell people who have trouble sleeping they just aren't trying hard enough.

Because the solution to every problem is you just gotta try. Its never more complicated than that. Any objections is just denial. That's what we learned from talking to a person from homogenous and isolated island nation. Everything is just so simple when you try!



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Immersiveunreality on 21 August 2018
Wyrdness said:
lightningfunk said:

the people arguing that there should be free stuff really need to hit rock bottom so that they can learn something new like economics

It's best you don't make comments like these because the are countries where health care and education are integrated into the system the way people want.

Yeah but none should think those things are free, better implemented than US maybe but never free.



Rab on 24 August 2018

Majority Of REPUBLICANS Now Want Medicare For All, MORE than the establishment Democrat Senators 

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rHin7DUUvU 



TranceformerFX on 24 August 2018

Oh yes. What a good idea to create a thread pertaining to Health Care in a gaming thread, when even most people going through college can't even tell you how "free" Healthcare even works...

Where's my popcorn...