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Forums - Politics Discussion - Starbucks Billionaire: You Can’t Have Healthcare Or College

Bofferbrauer2 on 18 August 2018
contestgamer said:
Megiddo said:

I seem to have a much better understanding of American culture than you do. How else would you explain your country being vastly more wealthy and yet having worse conditions for its most fragile citizens than countries with much less of its per capita GDP? It's because Americans shun the idea of helping someone below them. It's always "why do I have to pay for this" or "why do I have to pay for that". And that mindset allows politicians to continue cutting taxes on the wealthy so the rich keep hoarding their wealth and the middle class is happy because those under them now have less support. It's hilarious to see. Nobody in America makes a ruckus about the billions in unneeded corporate subsidies but oh no, if just one person uses their food stamps to buy something not completely nutritious it sparks immediate reform. America is a barbaric state compared to most other nations. It can't even guarantee all of its citizens something as basic as healthcare and instead chooses to have corporations profit off of dying people.

Healthcare isnt a right. No other animal has healthcare and humans didnt have it for 99% of history. The law of nature is of every man for themselves.

By that logic, the US shouldn't have such things as Police, Firefighters or even an Army. Oh, and no rights either, as they're not part of the "law of nature"



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Mr Puggsly on 18 August 2018
Megiddo said:
Have you not seen price comparisons for how much Medicare pays providers compared to private insurers? You might want to do a little research before posting because it looks really silly. In terms of overall costs, government negotiated medical expenses are much less overall than private insured negotiated medical costs.

It doesn't really matter how much more the private spends, the government isn't paying for that. Outside the US many countries that do a public option also have private, people with money tend to lean private.

Essentially, if the public option is getting services cheaper then maybe people should be able to buy some sort of public health care plan. But it doesn't seem to exist and the health care services the government does provide has gained notoriety for being terrible. The primary thing Healthcare.gov seems to do is give subsidies to private healthcare companies.



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Megiddo on 18 August 2018

Yes. That's because there is no government-negotiated plan for people under 65. That is why the "Medicare for all" movement is attempting to change that by allowing people under 65 to pay for a government-negotiated plan if they choose to do so. And you are correct, having socialized healthcare does not eliminate private insurance. They usually just become more focused in specialized care rather than general care since most everyone uses public healthcare.



Mr Puggsly on 18 August 2018
Bofferbrauer2 said:
contestgamer said:

Healthcare isnt a right. No other animal has healthcare and humans didnt have it for 99% of history. The law of nature is of every man for themselves.

By that logic, the US shouldn't have such things as Police, Firefighters or even an Army. Oh, and no rights either, as they're not part of the "law of nature"

Well the government is supposed to take care of its citizens and providing all the services you mentioned is a relatively small part of the overall budget. For example, I was surprised to read we only spend like a $100 billion on the police collectively (I would have guessed much more), I imagine fire services are less. The military budget is huge, but still only like 16% of the budget.

Providing healthcare is a different though, its something many prefer to buy privately for various reasons. More importantly the US government already spends a fortune on it. The government spends over a trillion just on healthcare.

So that's the flaw in your argument, you aren't considering we already spend significantly more on health and social services. While services like police, firefighters, and a kick ass military is a lot cheaper to provide.



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Mr Puggsly on 18 August 2018
Megiddo said:

Yes. That's because there is no government-negotiated plan for people under 65. That is why the "Medicare for all" movement is attempting to change that by allowing people under 65 to pay for a government-negotiated plan if they choose to do so. And you are correct, having socialized healthcare does not eliminate private insurance. They usually just become more focused in specialized care rather than general care since most everyone uses public healthcare.

No, the "Medicare for All" movement is more ambitious than that. They want Medicare to be much bigger in what it provides and ideally be completely tax funded. Essentially move the entire country to single payer. If a private option still existed, that would probably be limited to the wealthy.

I want more people to have access to affordable healthcare services. That's why I'm not inherently opposed to the Healthcare.gov option. Essentially, a fraction of the population is getting lost in the cracks for various reason and I don't mind subsidies as way of remedying that problem. If dems made their social service goals more realistic, I'd probably take them more seriously.



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darkenergy on 18 August 2018
Megiddo said:

The America that did the New Deal is dead. Now both political parties are seeking only to increase corporate profits since corporations have flooded politics with legal bribes to do their bidding. FDR would be shouted down as a socialist who isn't pragmatic with only crazy ideas if he were alive today.

We have a modern FDR, and his name is Bernie Sanders.

I also wanted to thank you as you are one of the few people here who is giving out logic and facts.

nidavellir said:
It's impressive to see some people in the comments being so against free education and healthcare... In many countries it works well, in many European countries the life expectancy and other health index are much higher than in the US, which is supposed to be the first power of the planet. Plus, we do not have more debts than other countries: better access to health and education create wealth, it's simple.

You can thank their corporate overlords that brainwashed them to turn against free education and healthcare.



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Rab on 18 August 2018

Fox News criticizes Denmark for their Socialist policies, Denmark replies   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSd8ellS52M 



darkenergy on 18 August 2018
Rab said:

Fox News criticizes Denmark for their Socialist policies, Denmark replies   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSd8ellS52M 

Just say this yesterday and Fox News has finally lost it, LOL.



Proud to be a Californian.

Mr Puggsly on 19 August 2018
Rab said:

Fox News criticizes Denmark for their Socialist policies, Denmark replies   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSd8ellS52M 

I'm pretty familiar with the people on Fox News and I have no idea who that is.

I think the average conservative would point out that Denmark has a tiny population and an incredibly homogenous population.

Also, Denmark is one of the highest taxed countries in the world. Free stuff is a popular idea in the US but those taxes would be incredibly unpopular with the average working person.



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Rab on 19 August 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
Rab said:

Fox News criticizes Denmark for their Socialist policies, Denmark replies   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSd8ellS52M 

I'm pretty familiar with the people on Fox News and I have no idea who that is.

I think the average conservative would point out that Denmark has a tiny population and an incredibly homogenous population.

Also, Denmark is one of the highest taxed countries in the world. Free stuff is a popular idea in the US but those taxes would be incredibly unpopular with the average working person.

That's weird, Trish Regan has been with Fox News and Fox Business Network as an anchor since 2015, before that CBS, CNBC and Bloomberg 

Yeah arguing a small and homogeneous population as an excuse is a bit like pointing to Venezuela every time Socialism is discussed, then the conservatives on both sides of politics wash their hands and happily think "job done" rebutting those pesky examples of progressive societies and move back to their comfort zone of supporting the poorly implemented status quo of the current system  

I don't think anything will change until we stop making excuses and look at best practices around the World in a evidence based scientific way