zorg1000 said:
Sony does have a long way to go to match 3DS 1st party sales. 3DS has 3 over 15 million, 7 over 10 million, 11 over 5 million.
PS4 has 0 over 15 million, 1 over 10 million, 6 over 5 million
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Look at my reply with Rol but you are right but if we match the totals sales PS4 is not that far behind.
The_Liquid_Laser said:
I am not comparing Nintendo vs. Rockstar. I am comparing Nintendo vs. Sony. Most of those 90m copies do not help the PS4. I am asking "how much does GTA V actually help the PS4?" I think that is a fair question. I am also saying that Sony's first party games do not stack up to the best third party games, like GTA V, on their own platform.
GTA V has sold 18.2m on the PS4 (using VGC numbers). That is a lot for a single platform. It is far more than Uncharted 4, which is at 10m according to your first post. It is also far above God of War, or Horizon Zero Dawn or PS4 version of The Last of Us. GTA V is the PS4's flagship game.
Now what about Nintendo? Does Nintendo ever make games that can sell on this level on a single platform? Yes, they do it quite frequently. The 3DS has Pokemon X/Y 16.04m, a couple million shy of GTA V on PS4, but still far above any first party title on the PS4. If we go back a generation, then we have quite a few games that sold extremely high: Mario Kart Wii (35.9m), Wii Sports Resort (32.9m), NSMB Wii (32.9m), Wii Fit (22.7m), NSMB DS (29.9m), Nintendogs (24.7), Mario Kart DS (23.3m), Brain Training (20.2m), Pokemon DIamond/Pearl (18.3m).
And to be fair GTA V's best selling version was on the PS3 (20.3m). I want to emphasize that I am not trying to criticize GTA V in any way. It is a top tier game. It is the best selling game on both PS3 and PS4. No other game has helped these platforms as much as GTA V. But when you break things down by single platform, then you see that Nintendo has made quite a few games on this same tier. I would also put CoD Black Ops 3 (15.1m on PS4) in this top tier. Top tier means they are the most important games for whatever platform they are on and that platform was successful (ideally the winner of the generation). All the games I just listed are top tier.
Do you know what games are not top tier? Sony first party games. Sony's best game has hit 10m yet on the PS4, while all of these games I listed above have sold 15m+. Sony first party games are good, but they are not top tier. Sony's best selling first party game was Gran Tourismo 3 (15m on PS2). Maybe it is top tier. Not only has Nintendo made many games since then which have topped this amount, but Sony now struggles to even make a game that sells 10m. Sony is just not on Nintendo's level. Sony makes good games, but they don't make top tier games like GTA, or 2D Mario, or Pokemon, or CoD, or Mario Kart.
And it's ok for Sony to not make top tier games. They rely on GTA and CoD to be their major tent poles. That totally works for them and has made the PS4 very successful. But Nintendo makes top tier games out of necessity. When they don't make any top tier games they get results like the Gamecube or Wii U. That is the way Nintendo has always sold their consoles. Nintendo consoles always have their first party games be the major tent poles, with third party games supporting the library and filling in the gaps. With Sony this is reversed. Sony lets third parties make the biggest titles, and it uses its first party library give added support and fill in the gaps. Sony's first party games are just not on the level of Nintendo's first party games, when you look at the successful consoles like 3DS or DS or Wii. Because when they are on the same level you get a result like [PS2 vs. Gamecube] or [Wii U vs. PS4].
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1.GTA V is a different beast that game is God Tier. I will highlight again how of a monster that game is. It already sold 20M on the PS3 according to you and then it sold another 18M at retail for the PS4.Since that is only retail and you compare a shipped number to a retail release and at the same time not counting DD sales then if you add that Shipped and DD sales it will destroy any games that NInty released in recent years. The fact that GTA V PS4 is still selling is and still Charting in NPD and UK sales is a a testament of how beastly GTA V is. When did GTA V was release again?
2. Did you missed Last of us for some reason? That game already sold 17M. UC4 is still selling and the last number we have is sold thru meaning it's not shipped. Meaning 8.7 is at retail and after 2 years it could be at 11-12 M shipped and UC4 is not yet done selling.
3. Then you might add GOW in the near future because that game is selling with Legs and this is the first time in History of Sony were they 1st party output is selling very well and that might continue with PS5.
4. What you are trying to convey is not the point of the thread. I even mentioned that a lot of people didn't bought PS4 for Sony games. We are not here to pit Sony and Nintendo on their games affect their console
We are not here to discussed on how Sony game is affecting PS consoles but if we are speaking for PS5 then that's a different discussion because that is the time we will see how Sony games affect it.
We are here to talked about how the 4 games I mentioned are competing with games Ninty put out recently and how it is at Nintendo level of sales.
RolStoppable said:
A fair comparison is one that is intellectually honest and includes estimates for where games will end up once all is said and done. You can't say Sony and Nintendo are on the same level when Sony basically needed three times as long as Nintendo (PS4 vs. Switch) to achieve similar numbers, and a longer timeframe comes with the additional advantage of having a bigger installed base to sell to as long as a console isn't a complete failure. In the case of PS4 vs. Switch we are looking at ~80m consoles sold vs. ~20m, so it's three times as much time and four times the installed base in Sony's favor.
An extrapolation of Switch first party game sales makes it a foregone conclusion that Sony won't come close to being on Nintendo's level. Right now the most obvious example is Mario Kart 8 Deluxe which has passed 10m shipped and has added 1m+ each quarter; that game isn't slowing down and if there's no Mario Kart 9 released in 2019, then MK8D will go beyond 20m. The 3DS has sold more than 70m hardware units and is still comfortably ahead of the PS4 in terms of 15m+, 10m+ and 5m+ sellers (see zorg1000's post); the 3DS had more time on the market than the PS4, but getting several games above 10m is no easy feat. Launch-aligned Switch is outpacing the 3DS in hardware and software sales, so it is very likely that Switch will continue to stay ahead and finish ahead.
I wasn't only talking about Uncharted 4 when I said that Sony's games will stall around 10m. I include all of Sony's big sellers that have already been mentioned in this thread. Sony needs games that sell 15m+, because Nintendo is already bound to have a few games cross that mark on Switch.
Sony's sales are good on their own because their big games have sold better than on the PS3 and at the same time they've produced fewer flops, but you've set too high of a bar for this thread with "entered Ninty level."
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The thing is you are so obsessed with the install base and that is not even my point. I kept repeating my self that it doesn't matter. We are speaking about raw numbers. It doesn't matter if Sony took 50 years to do it. It doesn't matter if the games I mentioned didn't outsell Mario Kart. The point of the comparison is the 4 games that I highlighted are competing with Ninty Level of sales especially Last of US and Soon GOW. 17M for TLoU that is Pokemon level already.
Bringing more context. GOW 5M first month is sold thru. The good part about it that it is only 1 month and it's sold thru and not shipped.
Then UC4's 8.7M and HZD's 7.6M is also sold thru.
Breaking the 10M barrier is Nintendo's Territory. UC4 entered that territory. Ninty levels. As I mentioned earlier 10M is just a safe bet as a minimum sales for UC4 and we are not even talking about Shipments. So if we take a look at 3DS sales UC4 is sandwich between Animal Crossing and Smash.
GOW has the highest chance of selling 15M when the generation ends. With how well it's selling. If GOW sold 15M isn't that Ninty levels already? or Am I wrong?
Last of us II is another contender for 15M.
Yes I will concede for the 3DS in terms of 15M but in terms of 10M and 5M it's not a long way for PS4. They will surely catch up when it PS4 is done. Doesn't matter if they felt short.
The moment you already using Mario Kart, Pokemon and Smash in our argument to win a point is enough for me. 
That says a lot of how good Sony game is doing at the moment.
