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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony first Party games sales, A huge leap from PS3 era. ( Entered Ninty Level ) Update: GOW at 10m & Uncharted 4 16M

Their first place in this gen is well deserved.
No other manufacturer has made that much effort and innovations.
I went from my WiiU to a PS4 pro, and all I was thinking was "why did I stick with nintendo this gen?"



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I would add that Microsoft is going to be back at the top of their game in 2 years tops. It's going to be interesting battle between the two.
And Apple and Google will probably start to make their place into the market.



Although Sony had some huge gems before this gen (Ico, SOTC) which already rivalled the best Nintendo has, I agree with the statement. Sony has made leaps this gen. Clearly they have finally earned the right to be considered titans in software development from here on.



RolStoppable said:

You know that it should be a given to sell more games on the PS4 than on the Wii U with its 13.5m units sold. Sony's first party is still quite a long way away from matching the first party game sales of the 3DS. That the 3DS isn't Nintendo's best is already made clear by Switch, Nintendo's current console that basically matches Sony's output of 4.5 years on the PS4 within 1.5 years and that also comes with a huge disadvantage in installed base.

Sony being on the same level as Nintendo can only be said if Wii U is the measuring stick.

NoCtiS_NoX said: 

Agreed. Last of us brand recognition is strong. It continued it's momentum with PS4 sales. 
I also agreed wit Halo and MS is stupid for not focusing on it this gen. 

isn't that more impressive? Sony is competing with 3rd parties biggest game and they are still selling well?

That's backwards thinking. The big third party games aren't hurting Sony, they are actually helping Sony by driving the installed base.

The line of thought that Sony's games would sell more if there weren't AAA third party games on their console simply doesn't hold up. The eighth generation proves this beyond any doubt. The PS4 has all the AAA third party publishers on board that shunned the PSV, but Sony's first party games are leaps and bounds more successful on the PS4 than they were on PSV. It's much more difficult to sell a lot of first party games when there's no help from third parties to drive the installed base.

1st.
You ignored my last post. 
The bold is a bit of a head scratched. As I have said on my last post. 
Mario and Zelda are a decade franchise that has a dedicated fans and top that with BOTW is also a very good game.

But no matter how you put it like it took Sony 4.5 years, install base and yada yada. Raw numbers doesn't lie.
Last of us sold 17M, UC is already at 10M or more. GOW sold 5M in it's 1st month and having a great legs. HZD at 7.8M.
These titles are selling on Par with the latest output of Nintendo. 

And since you mentioned 3DS first party games sales. The latest info I have just by looking at the charts. Total sales in that chart is 176M with 35 titles.
If you look at PS4 output with the  games I mentioned. It's at 28M already just by adding the known numbers we have so obviously it will be more with updated numbers. That's not counting GTS, Bloodborne, Detroit and etc. 
Also, Spiderman and Last of us II has yet to be release and Sony is not yet done with PS4 and we will see more new game announcement. 
Telling me it's a long way is a bit of a stretched don't you think?

The_Liquid_Laser said:


So when someone says that Sony first party games are on a Nintendo level, it has to be qualified.  If you compare [Gamecube vs. PS2] or [Wii U vs. PS4], then you can say their third party libraries are comparable.  Because that is what actually happens when their first party libraries are comparable: Nintendo gets clobbered.  Sony third party is what matters most.  But in most cases: NES/SNES, Wii, Switch, and every single Nintendo handheld, that is where Nintendo first party really shines.  On those platforms their first party games sell like a big third party SKU.  They sell like a GTA or CoD (or better).  Sony first party is just not at this level.  Franchises like GTA or CoD or Pokemon or 2D Mario are just on a much higher level than anything Sony can make.

Don't get me wrong.  I think Sony makes good games.  I think their first party line-up has always been a lot stronger (as a whole) than Microsoft's first party line-up.  But in the same way Nintendo first party line-up is just much stronger than Sony's.  And that's ok, because the two have very different strategies toward selling hardware.

Don't include GTA. GTA V is a different beast not a lot games can touched it even Nintendo games. Look how that game is still selling up until now. Even without massive bundling that game is a freaking monster. 
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/grand-theft-auto-v-90-million-sales/
This was asked to you earlier which Nintendo games is matching that?

We are not talking about which is stronger or has the impact for it's hardware. We are talking about raw numbers recently. if you think UC4 sales is not on par with Majority of Nintendo's output  then you are not looking at the sales I posted. 



All in all, I've been very pleased with Sony's first-party titles this generation. Uncharted 4 and The Lost Legacy, as well as The Last of Us, Horizon: Zero Dawn, and God of War have all been pretty all-around excellent games (not my absolute favorites of this generation, but among my favorite AAA releases for sure) in terms of everything from game play to atmosphere to storytelling and themes. I'm super-excited about The Last of Us: Part II and am genuinely curious about Death Stranding.



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RolStoppable said:

What you call a headscratcher is basic projection for software sales, meaning that Nintendo's Switch titles aren't done selling at the marks they've reached already. They'll comfortably add another few million units to their totals and then you'll have a comparison where Sony's games have stalled around the 10m mark whereas Nintendo's games have gone beyond 15m and even 20m. That's why "These titles are selling on par with the latest output of Nintendo." will clearly look wrong in a year's time.

You actually use software sales projection in your closing sentences when you mention Spiderman and The Last of Us 2, but you have to do the same thing for Nintendo. SSB Ultimate and Pokémon Let's Go are two big sellers that will release in 2018 and Nintendo is obviously far from done with Switch game development.

Just to elaborate. PS4 in it's early years, in terms of 1st party games is really weak in comparison.  It's Sony's fault. Not Ninty. 
The reason for head scratch is  I am talking about raw numbers which we can match it with Switch and 3DS or WiiU. 
That's the latest Nintendo's output where we can fairly compare because they are close with each other.
It doesn't matter if it took Sony 4 Years to release a game that can sell on par with Ninty Titles for the PS4 because that is not my point with the comparison and the fact that UC4 was released in 2016, HZD 2017, GOW, 2018. 

You don't have any evidence nor numbers that can prove that UC4 stalled at 10M. The 10M is just a safe assumption on how it sold. It could be at 10M or 12M by now we will never know unless Sony change their mind and they will provide numbers like Ninty. 
All we know is that before UC4 release Uncharted series sold 28Million including collection. On first week of December 2017 it's at 41.7 M.  Official numbers for UC4 is 8.7 M that leaves us 5 Million and Lost legacy sales is hampered by the people who bought season pass for UC4. We can safely assume that 2m sales min. is for UC4 and that's like 8 mos. ago. 
Then you also have uncharted 4 as part of Playstation hits that could spark the sales again.
https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/19/bloodborne-uncharted-4-playstation-hits/

@ BOLD I could be wrong in the future but Am I wrong now in telling that Sony titles are selling on par with ninty titles at the moment? 

2nd pargraph
I was talking about 3DS only. You claimed that Sony has quite long way to go to match 3DS' 1st party sales output. 



NoCtiS_NoX said:
RolStoppable said:

What you call a headscratcher is basic projection for software sales, meaning that Nintendo's Switch titles aren't done selling at the marks they've reached already. They'll comfortably add another few million units to their totals and then you'll have a comparison where Sony's games have stalled around the 10m mark whereas Nintendo's games have gone beyond 15m and even 20m. That's why "These titles are selling on par with the latest output of Nintendo." will clearly look wrong in a year's time.

You actually use software sales projection in your closing sentences when you mention Spiderman and The Last of Us 2, but you have to do the same thing for Nintendo. SSB Ultimate and Pokémon Let's Go are two big sellers that will release in 2018 and Nintendo is obviously far from done with Switch game development.

Just to elaborate. PS4 in it's early years, in terms of 1st party games is really weak in comparison.  It's Sony's fault. Not Ninty. 
The reason for head scratch is  I am talking about raw numbers which we can match it with Switch and 3DS or WiiU. 
That's the latest Nintendo's output where we can fairly compare because they are close with each other.
It doesn't matter if it took Sony 4 Years to release a game that can sell on par with Ninty Titles for the PS4 because that is not my point with the comparison and the fact that UC4 was released in 2016, HZD 2017, GOW, 2018. 

You don't have any evidence nor numbers that can prove that UC4 stalled at 10M. The 10M is just a safe assumption on how it sold. It could be at 10M or 12M by now we will never know unless Sony change their mind and they will provide numbers like Ninty. 
All we know is that before UC4 release Uncharted series sold 28Million including collection. On first week of December 2017 it's at 41.7 M.  Official numbers for UC4 is 8.7 M that leaves us 5 Million and Lost legacy sales is hampered by the people who bought season pass for UC4. We can safely assume that 2m sales min. is for UC4 and that's like 8 mos. ago. 
Then you also have uncharted 4 as part of Playstation hits that could spark the sales again.
https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/19/bloodborne-uncharted-4-playstation-hits/

@ BOLD I could be wrong in the future but Am I wrong now in telling that Sony titles are selling on par with ninty titles at the moment? 

2nd pargraph
I was talking about 3DS only. You claimed that Sony has quite long way to go to match 3DS' 1st party sales output. 

Sony does have a long way to go to match 3DS 1st party sales. 3DS has 3 over 15 million, 7 over 10 million, 11 over 5 million.

PS4 has 0 over 15 million, 1 over 10 million, 6 over 5 million



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

NoCtiS_NoX said:

The_Liquid_Laser said:


So when someone says that Sony first party games are on a Nintendo level, it has to be qualified.  If you compare [Gamecube vs. PS2] or [Wii U vs. PS4], then you can say their third party libraries are comparable.  Because that is what actually happens when their first party libraries are comparable: Nintendo gets clobbered.  Sony third party is what matters most.  But in most cases: NES/SNES, Wii, Switch, and every single Nintendo handheld, that is where Nintendo first party really shines.  On those platforms their first party games sell like a big third party SKU.  They sell like a GTA or CoD (or better).  Sony first party is just not at this level.  Franchises like GTA or CoD or Pokemon or 2D Mario are just on a much higher level than anything Sony can make.

Don't get me wrong.  I think Sony makes good games.  I think their first party line-up has always been a lot stronger (as a whole) than Microsoft's first party line-up.  But in the same way Nintendo first party line-up is just much stronger than Sony's.  And that's ok, because the two have very different strategies toward selling hardware.

Don't include GTA. GTA V is a different beast not a lot games can touched it even Nintendo games. Look how that game is still selling up until now. Even without massive bundling that game is a freaking monster. 
https://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/grand-theft-auto-v-90-million-sales/
This was asked to you earlier which Nintendo games is matching that?

We are not talking about which is stronger or has the impact for it's hardware. We are talking about raw numbers recently. if you think UC4 sales is not on par with Majority of Nintendo's output  then you are not looking at the sales I posted. 



I am not comparing Nintendo vs. Rockstar.  I am comparing Nintendo vs. Sony.  Most of those 90m copies do not help the PS4.  I am asking "how much does GTA V actually help the PS4?"  I think that is a fair question.  I am also saying that Sony's first party games do not stack up to the best third party games, like GTA V, 
on their own platform.

GTA V has sold 18.2m on the PS4 (using VGC numbers).  That is a lot for a single platform.  It is far more than Uncharted 4, which is at 10m according to your first post.  It is also far above God of War, or Horizon Zero Dawn or PS4 version of The Last of Us.  GTA V is the PS4's flagship game.  

Now what about Nintendo?  Does Nintendo ever make games that can sell on this level on a single platform?  Yes, they do it quite frequently.  The 3DS has Pokemon X/Y 16.04m, a couple million shy of GTA V on PS4, but still far above any first party title on the PS4.  If we go back a generation, then we have quite a few games that sold extremely high: Mario Kart Wii (35.9m), Wii Sports Resort (32.9m), NSMB Wii (32.9m), Wii Fit (22.7m), NSMB DS (29.9m), Nintendogs (24.7), Mario Kart DS (23.3m), Brain Training (20.2m),  Pokemon DIamond/Pearl (18.3m).

And to be fair GTA V's best selling version was on the PS3 (20.3m).  I want to emphasize that I am not trying to criticize GTA V in any way.  It is a top tier game.  It is the best selling game on both PS3 and PS4.  No other game has helped these platforms as much as GTA V.  But when you break things down by single platform, then you see that Nintendo has made quite a few games on this same tier.  I would also put CoD Black Ops 3 (15.1m on PS4) in this top tier.  Top tier means they are the most important games for whatever platform they are on and that platform was successful (ideally the winner of the generation).  All the games I just listed are top tier.

Do you know what games are not top tier?  Sony first party games.  Sony's best game has hit 10m yet on the PS4, while all of these games I listed above have sold 15m+.  Sony first party games are good, but they are not top tier.  Sony's best selling first party game was Gran Tourismo 3 (15m on PS2).  Maybe it is top tier.  Not only has Nintendo made many games since then which have topped this amount, but Sony now struggles to even make a game that sells 10m.  Sony is just not on Nintendo's level.  Sony makes good games, but they don't make top tier games like GTA, or 2D Mario, or Pokemon, or CoD, or Mario Kart.

And it's ok for Sony to not make top tier games.  They rely on GTA and CoD to be their major tent poles.  That totally works for them and has made the PS4 very successful.  But Nintendo makes top tier games out of necessity.  When they don't make any top tier games they get results like the Gamecube or Wii U.  That is the way Nintendo has always sold their consoles.  Nintendo consoles always have their first party games be the major tent poles, with third party games supporting the library and filling in the gaps.  With Sony this is reversed.  Sony lets third parties make the biggest titles, and it uses its first party library give added support and fill in the gaps.  Sony's first party games are just not on the level of Nintendo's first party games, when you look at the successful consoles like 3DS or DS or Wii.  Because when they are on the same level you get a result like [PS2 vs. Gamecube] or [Wii U vs. PS4]. 

Last edited by The_Liquid_Laser - on 12 August 2018

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the games Sony makes just are not done by other developers much anymore. Heavily story driven single player games are not as abundant as they used to be, and Sony is really hitting the nail on the head with high quality games to scratch that itch. Seeing how Playstation has become one of the main pillars of the company with the PS4, I suspect that this is only the beginning of many great games to come as more and more will be invested into their 1st party output.

Sony has done a fantastic job with their studios and I look forward to seeing how they continue to grow. They may not have as many IPs as Nintendo, but the quality is certainly up there.



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Shiken said:
I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that the games Sony makes just are not done by other developers much anymore. Heavily story driven single player games are not as abundant as they used to be, and Sony is really hitting the nail on the head with high quality games to scratch that itch. Seeing how Playstation has become one of the main pillars of the company with the PS4, I suspect that this is only the beginning of many great games to come as more and more will be invested into their 1st party output.

Sony has done a fantastic job with their studios and I look forward to seeing how they continue to grow. They may not have as many IPs as Nintendo, but the quality is certainly up there.

I think that the best thing about Sony studios is they don't need IPs to deliver big critically and commercially hits. Their ability to make things from scratch and knock it out of the park is far ahead of any other publisher's studios. It's no wonder Sony has published more new IPs this generation than all other studios like Nintendo, MS, EA, Activision, Bethesda, WB Games, etc. all put together. 

Nintendo perhaps especially is too reliant on IPs. Be it critically or commercially, If you look on metacritic, it seems Nintendo is almost incapable of delivering a 90+ rated game without Mario, Link, or Samus in it. Same with sales it, barring the occasional gimmicks  like Wii series, most of their games sell very little unless again they have Mario , or Link in them, or Pokemon on handhelds. Splatoon is their first big IP in decades to sell well outside those few old IPs. 

Last edited by BoseDK - on 12 August 2018