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Forums - Politics Discussion - Democrats Vote To Give Trump Obscene $717 Billion Mílítary Budget

Hiku said:
numberwang said:

Comparing numbers based on nominal exchange rates for different sized countries is misleading. Do you think a Chinese soldier costs as much as an American soldier? National spending has to be compared as a percentage of GDP.

Of course. But people naturally look at this while keeping in mind obvious things like the size difference between USA and other nations.
I don't have to point out that USA has 300 million+ inhabitants because that's common knowledge. As such their GDP will be higher than most.

Though on that note, China has significantly more people in their country than USA does. Do you think the cost of a US soldier is so much significantly higher, that USA's piece of that chart is several times that of China's? If so, how? 
And why would an American soldier cost more than a Chinese soldier?

The Chinese military for example has about twice active personnel compared to the US (2.2M vs 1.3M ) which is obscured by exchange rate magic comparisons.

Flag Country Active military Reserve military Paramilitary Total Per 1000 capita
(total)
Per 1000 capita
(active)
China[34] 2,183,000 510,000 660,000 3,353,000 2.4 1.6
India[71] 1,395,100 2,142,800 1,403,700 4,941,600 3.9 1.1
United States[166] 1,347,300 865,050 14,850 2,227,200 6.9 4.2
North Korea[115][Note 9] 1,190,000 6,300,000 189,000 7,679,000 305.7 47.4
Russia[131][Note 11] 1,013,000 2,500,000 710,000 4,223,000 29.7 7.1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

The US would also outspend most following countries combined in social spending if you take a total Dollars exchange rate as a base of comparison.



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US politicians are in the pockets of the Military Industrial Complex investment corporations.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

numberwang said:

You don't want to be outspend by Russia? That would be collusion I've heard.

Russia has a higher percentage of it's GDP put into the military - but with a GDP over 10 times smaller than the US, it's still just enough to get it up to 1/10 of the US budget.

 I agree however that the Russian budget is growing at a fast pace, so naturally this needs to be counter-balanced a bit. But not as much or as fast as this.



Hiku said:
numberwang said:

The Chinese military for example has about twice active personnel compared to the US (2.2M vs 1.3M ) which is obscured by exchange rate magic comparisons.

Flag Country Active military Reserve military Paramilitary Total Per 1000 capita
(total)
Per 1000 capita
(active)
China[34] 2,183,000 510,000 660,000 3,353,000 2.4 1.6
India[71] 1,395,100 2,142,800 1,403,700 4,941,600 3.9 1.1
United States[166] 1,347,300 865,050 14,850 2,227,200 6.9 4.2
North Korea[115][Note 9] 1,190,000 6,300,000 189,000 7,679,000 305.7 47.4
Russia[131][Note 11] 1,013,000 2,500,000 710,000 4,223,000 29.7 7.1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

The US would also outspend most following countries combined in social spending if you take a total Dollars exchange rate as a base of comparison.

Hold on, are you suggesting that the defense budget is primarily made up of soldier salaries?

Just a few weeks ago it was announced that USA finished R&D on some pointless military aircraft for obscene amounts of money. It was calculated that instead of that plane, that money could have covered everyone in the country for both healthcare and college for one or two years? I forget. I can look it up but it's not the first time their hyper expensive toys have made the headlines.
The development of these weapons are likely eating the majority of that budget. Of course, maintaining bases around the world is also very costly, but those countries provide US with trillions of dollars in exchange, and it's not as if those bases aren't of strategic value to the US. They're not just there out of the goodness of their hearts.

Every local service is much cheaper in China and India than the US, that is why you can't compare prices/wages in nominal Dollars.

The US spends nearly 3 Trillion Dollars annually on social services, 4x as much as the military. There is no other country that comes close to that in total nominal Dollars (and yet that number is equally misleading as some countries spend more as proportion of GDP). 



numberwang said:
Hiku said:

Of course. But people naturally look at this while keeping in mind obvious things like the size difference between USA and other nations.
I don't have to point out that USA has 300 million+ inhabitants because that's common knowledge. As such their GDP will be higher than most.

Though on that note, China has significantly more people in their country than USA does. Do you think the cost of a US soldier is so much significantly higher, that USA's piece of that chart is several times that of China's? If so, how? 
And why would an American soldier cost more than a Chinese soldier?

The Chinese military for example has about twice active personnel compared to the US (2.2M vs 1.3M ) which is obscured by exchange rate magic comparisons.

Flag Country Active military Reserve military Paramilitary Total Per 1000 capita
(total)
Per 1000 capita
(active)
China[34] 2,183,000 510,000 660,000 3,353,000 2.4 1.6
India[71] 1,395,100 2,142,800 1,403,700 4,941,600 3.9 1.1
United States[166] 1,347,300 865,050 14,850 2,227,200 6.9 4.2
North Korea[115][Note 9] 1,190,000 6,300,000 189,000 7,679,000 305.7 47.4
Russia[131][Note 11] 1,013,000 2,500,000 710,000 4,223,000 29.7 7.1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

The US would also outspend most following countries combined in social spending if you take a total Dollars exchange rate as a base of comparison.

China has more soldiers, so what? China has 4 times more population, is a bigger country and the one with the most neighboring countries (14, not counting any close countries across the sea). So it's only natural that the country has a larger military as it has more space to cover. India has a bigger army mostly because of it's huge population.

I didn't expect North Korean Army to be this big. Sitting between China, Russia and South Korea, I expected a very large one, but that's ludicrous in size



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Bofferbrauer2 said:
numberwang said:

The Chinese military for example has about twice active personnel compared to the US (2.2M vs 1.3M ) which is obscured by exchange rate magic comparisons.

Flag Country Active military Reserve military Paramilitary Total Per 1000 capita
(total)
Per 1000 capita
(active)
China[34] 2,183,000 510,000 660,000 3,353,000 2.4 1.6
India[71] 1,395,100 2,142,800 1,403,700 4,941,600 3.9 1.1
United States[166] 1,347,300 865,050 14,850 2,227,200 6.9 4.2
North Korea[115][Note 9] 1,190,000 6,300,000 189,000 7,679,000 305.7 47.4
Russia[131][Note 11] 1,013,000 2,500,000 710,000 4,223,000 29.7 7.1

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_military_and_paramilitary_personnel

The US would also outspend most following countries combined in social spending if you take a total Dollars exchange rate as a base of comparison.

China has more soldiers, so what? China has 4 times more population, is a bigger country and the one with the most neighboring countries (14, not counting any close countries across the sea). So it's only natural that the country has a larger military as it has more space to cover. India has a bigger army mostly because of it's huge population.

I didn't expect North Korean Army to be this big. Sitting between China, Russia and South Korea, I expected a very large one, but that's ludicrous in size

How comes these countries have bigger militaries if the US outspends everybody else by so much? It's a fake statistic equating Rubel/Yuan oranges to Dollar apples.



KLAMarine said:
Well at least it helps keep people in the defense industry employed.

We'd be much better off if they were employed in another industry. Shocking amount of money wasted on weapons. 



Where was this outrage over the "obscene" military budgets during Obama's 8 years in office?

And as a percentage of GDP, the recent military budgets seem paltry compared to decades past, especially the WWII and Vietnam / Cold War eras:



On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

melbye said:

Well, someone has to pay for the defense of Norway and the rest of NATO

Thank you.



Mar1217 said:

So, achieving world peace while spending more on their defense budget ... that's counter-intuitive.

It is by the threat of force that peace is maintained.

Mar1217 said:

100B that could have served better in the hands of their people, but nah I digress.

I'm pretty sure we spend more on other things outside of defense. I think we spend most on social security.

Kerotan said:
KLAMarine said:
Well at least it helps keep people in the defense industry employed.

We'd be much better off if they were employed in another industry. Shocking amount of money wasted on weapons. 

I think some of those weapons are eventually sold to NATO allies so it's not a total waste. Also, better safe than sorry!