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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Mods please lock. Thread based on either outdated info, or relying on biased source (Valve itself).

Cerebralbore101 said:
Chazore said:

I wonder how this will end, because going by what OP suggests, not so well.

Looking at the lack of data though and just going by the words, this makes it sound like it was very, very bad for PC to "take so long" to gain those numbers while making it look better for PS4. I wonder how much we'll get out of this topic....


Also using CHinese users and then exclusiding them isn't logically sound. Also excluding users who don't have a Steam account, while also not counting those that have a:

Battle.net

GoG

Origin

Epic

Uplay

Bethesda.net accounts.


When you add all account types and their numbers, then yes they greatly dwarf what numbers the PS4 has, and I doubt that PS4 will surpass all those account numbers combined, and let's not make the argument that every user using all those accounts are all magically "steam users".

Pretty sure that 95% of PC Gamers have a Steam account. Not even going to argue it with you. If you don't believe that, then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. 

You don't have said data to back that up, especially considering how there are a lot of users that use other clients and those that voice not using Steam, with those that decide not to voice their say (because not everyone does, otherwise voting for anything with a voice would be made so easy to read) while not using Steam as well.

 

Also we have people using GoG, a DRM free storefront and optional client GoG Galaxy. We have millions of people out there that don't exactly use Steam. Trying to tie all PC gamers under a number and just using Steam, to then pair up against 1 console number and it's userbase is just silly for a topic. It's easily painting a picture that isn't setup for a positive topic, and why is it only now just become something of "interest"?.

Like I could get behind the topic if it was some form of chit chat on the main PC thread, but these kind never really spawn from that main thread and instead spawn from console gamers. If you're going to reply to me that you're now a PC gamer, then why haven't you joined us in PC related topics and talks in the main PC thread, or even PC topics made by PC gamers in general?. 

You don't even have to argue, because the data you#'re trying to tell me doesn't exist. I'm not taking it as you being objectively right about this at all, and I'm not wrong on this notion either because trying to tie everyone to one storefront/client is insanely silly, especially when we've seen other clients/storefronts gaining traction and much use over the years.



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So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

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Ka-pi96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Pretty sure that 95% of PC Gamers have a Steam account. Not even going to argue it with you. If you don't believe that, then there's nothing I can say that will convince you otherwise. 

Using made up stats, pretending they're facts and ignoring anybody that argues otherwise isn't really a good way to have a discussion...

Oh and there's probably a sizeable number of PC gamers that only play things like LoL or WoW, or even just browser based games such as Runescape, and thus don't have Steam accounts. Probably pretty safe to assume that number is more than 5% too. And before you say "they don't count if they only play 1 game", there's a lot of console owners that only player 1 game such as COD or FIFA as well, so yes, they absolutely do count.

If I say "Pretty Sure" then I'm not claiming it as an indisputable fact. And facts are by definition indisputable. I'm choosing to ignore everybody that argues otherwise, not because I think I'm 100% right. I don't, and the phrase "Pretty Sure" proves that. I'm choosing to ignore anybody that argues otherwise, because like me, they have no way to concretely prove their claim. And their claim is that there is a large enough portion of PC Gamers that don't also have a Steam account to effect the outcome of this discussion. We might as well argue over how many teapots are orbiting the earth, or whether or not we all live in a massive computer simulation. Their claim about the number of PC Gamers who don't have Steam accounts is either objectively true or objectively false. But it is outside of our current ability to prove it either true or false. 

And yes, the inability to prove it either way does make my argument inconclusive. But if you start every rebuttal with "it's possible that X", then almost nothing is going to be conclusive ever. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 22 July 2018

Cerebralbore101 said:

I thought this was pretty interesting. That means that not counting China there are about 105 million Steam Users out there. PS4 should easily surpass 85 million by the end of this year, and that's only after 5 years on the market. Steam on the other hand has had 14 years or more to get all those users. Yes, I realize that not all PC Gamers have a Steam Account, but almost all do. And this is counting non-Chinese Steam Users that don't have a PC as powerful as a PS4.  I thought PC Gamers outnumbered Console Gamers in most regions of the developed world. But this suggests otherwise.

Less than 28% speak Chinese according to Valve:



Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I thought this was pretty interesting. That means that not counting China there are about 105 million Steam Users out there. PS4 should easily surpass 85 million by the end of this year, and that's only after 5 years on the market. Steam on the other hand has had 14 years or more to get all those users. Yes, I realize that not all PC Gamers have a Steam Account, but almost all do. And this is counting non-Chinese Steam Users that don't have a PC as powerful as a PS4.  I thought PC Gamers outnumbered Console Gamers in most regions of the developed world. But this suggests otherwise.

Less than 28% speak Chinese according to Valve:

See this is why I think the thread and topic is a waste of time. The data isn't even accurate, not even by a long shot.



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

Conina said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

I thought this was pretty interesting. That means that not counting China there are about 105 million Steam Users out there. PS4 should easily surpass 85 million by the end of this year, and that's only after 5 years on the market. Steam on the other hand has had 14 years or more to get all those users. Yes, I realize that not all PC Gamers have a Steam Account, but almost all do. And this is counting non-Chinese Steam Users that don't have a PC as powerful as a PS4.  I thought PC Gamers outnumbered Console Gamers in most regions of the developed world. But this suggests otherwise.

Less than 28% speak Chinese according to Valve:

That's according to Steam's hardware survey. Meaning what percentage of hardware running steam has Simplified Chinese set as the default on their hardware. The problem is that because of the rise of Internet Cafes multiple Chinese speaking Steam users share the same computers. The important thing to remember here is that Steam's hardware survey for language settings does not equal the total number of Chinese speakers that have a Steam account. 

 From Valve - "Historically, the survey used a client-side method to ensure that systems were counted only once per year, in order to provide an accurate picture of the entire Steam user population. It turns out, however, that many cyber cafes manage their hardware in a way that was causing their customers to be over counted.

Around August 2017, we started seeing larger-than-usual movement in certain stats, notably an increase in Windows 7 usage, an increase in quad-core CPU usage, as well as changes in CPU and GPU market share. This period also saw a large increase in the use of Simplified Chinese. All of these coincided with an increase in Steam usage in cyber cafes in Asia, whose customers were being over counted in the survey."

So as you can see from above, Steam's hardware survey is interested in counting hardware, not in counting users. Due to internet Cafes Steam was accidentally counting the same computers Multiple Times, instead of just counting those computers "Once per year". But the fact that only 28% of hardware has simplified Chinese set to default, doesn't change the 64% of users that speak Chinese. 

Last edited by Cerebralbore101 - on 22 July 2018

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Cerebralbore101 said:
Conina said:

Less than 28% speak Chinese according to Valve:

That's according to Steam's hardware survey. Meaning what percentage of hardware running steam has Simplified Chinese set as the default on their hardware. The problem is that because of the rise of Internet Cafes multiple Chinese speaking Steam users share the same computers. The important thing to remember here is that Steam's hardware survey for language settings does not equal the total number of Chinese speakers that have a Steam account. 

 From Valve - "Historically, the survey used a client-side method to ensure that systems were counted only once per year, in order to provide an accurate picture of the entire Steam user population. It turns out, however, that many cyber cafes manage their hardware in a way that was causing their customers to be over counted.

Around August 2017, we started seeing larger-than-usual movement in certain stats, notably an increase in Windows 7 usage, an increase in quad-core CPU usage, as well as changes in CPU and GPU market share. This period also saw a large increase in the use of Simplified Chinese. All of these coincided with an increase in Steam usage in cyber cafes in Asia, whose customers were being over counted in the survey."

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/valve-reveals-steams-monthly-active-user-count-game-sales-region/

A little over 17% of steam sales come from Aisa. The 64% number doesn't match up with the sales.



Ka-pi96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

If I say "Pretty Sure" then I'm not claiming it as an indisputable fact. And facts are by definition indisputable. I'm choosing to ignore everybody that argues otherwise, not because I think I'm 100% right. I don't, and the phrase "Pretty Sure" proves that. I'm choosing to ignore anybody that argues otherwise, because like me, they have no way to concretely prove their claim. And their claim is that there is a large enough portion of PC Gamers that don't also have a Steam account to effect the outcome of this discussion. We might as well argue over how many teapots are orbiting the earth, or whether or not we all live in a massive computer simulation. Their claim about the number of PC Gamers who don't have Steam accounts is either objectively true or objectively false. But it is outside of our current ability to prove it either true or false. 

And yes, the inability to prove it either way does make my argument inconclusive. But if you start every rebuttal with "it's possible that X", then almost nothing is going to be conclusive ever. 

When you're making shit up and basing the entire premise of your thread on it then what's the difference to using it as a fact?

And if you want data... Steam had 60% marketshare for purchased digital PC games in 2016 https://www.statista.com/statistics/821464/digital-storefronts-purchasing-digital-game-content/

Not only is 60% WAY below 95%, it also doesn't include the huge amount of gamers that play F2P games such as LoL.

This. Lots of big PC games aren't on steam. Overwatch, Minecraft,  league of legends, Fortnite etc.



jason1637 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

That's according to Steam's hardware survey. Meaning what percentage of hardware running steam has Simplified Chinese set as the default on their hardware. The problem is that because of the rise of Internet Cafes multiple Chinese speaking Steam users share the same computers. The important thing to remember here is that Steam's hardware survey for language settings does not equal the total number of Chinese speakers that have a Steam account. 

 From Valve - "Historically, the survey used a client-side method to ensure that systems were counted only once per year, in order to provide an accurate picture of the entire Steam user population. It turns out, however, that many cyber cafes manage their hardware in a way that was causing their customers to be over counted.

Around August 2017, we started seeing larger-than-usual movement in certain stats, notably an increase in Windows 7 usage, an increase in quad-core CPU usage, as well as changes in CPU and GPU market share. This period also saw a large increase in the use of Simplified Chinese. All of these coincided with an increase in Steam usage in cyber cafes in Asia, whose customers were being over counted in the survey."

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/valve-reveals-steams-monthly-active-user-count-game-sales-region/

A little over 17% of steam sales come from Aisa. The 64% number doesn't match up with the sales.

The easy answer there is that most Chinese Gamers prefer free to play games on Steam, or overwhelmingly just bought and play a single game like PUBG. 



Ka-pi96 said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

If I say "Pretty Sure" then I'm not claiming it as an indisputable fact. And facts are by definition indisputable. I'm choosing to ignore everybody that argues otherwise, not because I think I'm 100% right. I don't, and the phrase "Pretty Sure" proves that. I'm choosing to ignore anybody that argues otherwise, because like me, they have no way to concretely prove their claim. And their claim is that there is a large enough portion of PC Gamers that don't also have a Steam account to effect the outcome of this discussion. We might as well argue over how many teapots are orbiting the earth, or whether or not we all live in a massive computer simulation. Their claim about the number of PC Gamers who don't have Steam accounts is either objectively true or objectively false. But it is outside of our current ability to prove it either true or false. 

And yes, the inability to prove it either way does make my argument inconclusive. But if you start every rebuttal with "it's possible that X", then almost nothing is going to be conclusive ever. 

When you're making shit up and basing the entire premise of your thread on it then what's the difference to using it as a fact?

And if you want data... Steam had 60% marketshare for purchased digital PC games in 2016 https://www.statista.com/statistics/821464/digital-storefronts-purchasing-digital-game-content/

Not only is 60% WAY below 95%, it also doesn't include the huge amount of gamers that play F2P games such as LoL.

That doesn't mean that 40% don't even have a single steam account. People can buy their games across multiple storefronts, and have multiple accounts. 



這是令人難以置信的



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