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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Future of VR

the-pi-guy said:
VAMatt said:
I was excited about VR for gaming. I thought we were very likely on the precipice of a major change in the way people play games. But, the tech just isn't there yet. 

People seem to either be incredibly pessimistic or incredibly optimistic about the tech.  There doesn't seem to be very much in between.  

I personally wouldn't say the tech isn't there yet.  But people have different expectations.  I know some people won't be satisfied (or at least they claim) until VR is basically holodeck.  

I think what's currently there is awesome, but it's obvious there's incredible room for growth.  

VAMatt said:
Then there's the practical limitations, such as the need for significant space to play many games. I'm no longer convinced that VR is the future for gaming, and anything more than a niche way. I hope that's wrong, but that's what it's looking like to me.

The thing that makes me very optimistic is that there are a lot of companies that are working on solutions to problems in VR.  Some companies literally exist only to work on VR.  

Oculus is a multibillion dollar company that exists only for VR.  

Infinadeck is seeking to fix the problem with the space issue.  

https://i.gifer.com/QRkv.mp4

I probably overstated my pessimism a bit. I think I actually am one of those people in between the extremes. Part of the problem for me, I think, is that I've been anticipating VR for gaming since Sega was talking about it in the 1990s. They claimed for a few years that they were almost there.  In hindsight, we all know that they weren't anywhere remotely close too good virtual reality. But, I,  nor them seemingly, realized that at the time.  I thought that by the end of the nineties I would be putting a headset on and immersing myself and fantasy worlds in my leisure time.  it didn't happen.

Fast forward to 2014 or so. Modern VR Tech is on the horizon. My buddy buys an Oculus Rift DK2.  It's awesome, considering the low budget, small-time Tech demos that exists for it at the time. I figure that big money is working behind the scenes, and that by the time this stuff hits the streets, will have awesome, full fledged experiences in VR.   Then, in 2015, I pick up a gear VR headset. It's awesome.  everybody I know wants to play it.  Interestingly though, few people care about playing at a second time.  That's when I started to realize that we're just not there yet.

Still, I had hope that when the high-dollar headsets hit the market that I'll be pleasantly surprised.   and then, when those headsets released, I am surprised. But it's not as pleasant as I thought. There are no AAA games at lunch.  Good ways to move around the game environment are few and far between.  Control schemes are confusing, and often just suck.   

Then I'm forced to accept it. The big money cannot flow into software, because the user base is not there with the hardware. The hardware guys can't build a user base, cuz the good software for it doesn't exist.  And that is, to a significant extent, why we're stuck where we are.

 I also worry that even if they can get the stuff straightened out over the next few years, they blew their opportunity for mass adoption at this point, by releasing too soon.  VR is just too "meh",  so people aren't excited.



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KBG29 said:
Nice round up of info on the future of VR. Hopefully, with Rift 2, Vive 2, and PSVR2, we will reach the point of pick up and play. I feel like current tech is already strong enough to set the world on fire if it had the proper software backing, but it has become obvious that, that will not be the case.

The biggest drawbacks from me with PSVR hadrwarewise are;

1. Constantly needing to adjust the camera for seated and standing games.
2. Lack of Joy Sticks on the Move Controllers.
3. Inability to track controllers in 360 degrees.

If Sony can solve those problems, while doing the obvious;

-Wider Field of View
-Increased Pixel Density
-Smaller Lighter Headset
-Variable Depth of Field/Eye Tracking

Then PS5 and PSVR2 will be ready to expand VR to a wider market.


I really hope next gen headsets have the option for Wireless and Wired. I think having the wireless option will be key to getting some people to try it, but I would absolutely hate to be limited to the Image Qulaity and Response time issues of a Wireless headset.


Other than that we need games. We need GTA exclusive to VR. We need COD exclusive to VR. We need the major players to take on the role of progressing games to VR, while they let the indies and smaller pubs/devs take on traditional Controller/M&K and TV/Monitor games. I hope we see a good balance between VR and Retro games next gen. In the case of something like COD/Assasins Creed/Far Cry/Battlefield, have a VR exlusive title one year, with Retro the next. For something like Madden/MLB The Show/NBA 2K, make VR the main focus, drive players to VR in tournements, make VR were the money is. Then with first party we need Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo to strike a good balance of studios working VR and studios working retro. Polyphony/Turn 10/Mario Kart should be VR focused, Guerrilla/343/Splatoon should be VR focused.

Every game next gen needs to, at the minimum, support VR from start to finish, even if it is just 360 degree headtracking, with traditional gameplay on a gamepad. There is no game that would not benifit from the wider field of view, next to zero input lag, and immersion that a head mounted display offers.

Almost two years later I am still incredibly excited about VR. It still gives me feelings I have not had since PS1/N64 about where we can go with the future of gaming. In many ways we have reached my expectations for Traditional Controllers and Displays in the last 20 years. Now I look to VR to do the same over the next 20 years. Just imagine where we will be with VR in 2040 if we see the same progression we have seen in games from PS1 to PS4. PS8 and PSVR5 will be freaking amazing!

No offense, but your excitement and ideals just serve to throw me off gaming as a whole.

 

The last thing I'd want to see is for everything to be forced into a spectrum that not everyone wants it to be in. The way you talk about what your stock investors told you and what you think is the "perfect" future is nothing more than a future that serves only you, not me or people who think like me either.

Everything doesn't have to be in VR nor made solely for it, nor having all other media forms made to cater to dead last.



I still say helmets will never be the future. They will never be able to hit mass market with those contraptions in your head. They are doomed to failure, just like all others before them.

Theres only 2 choices i see. One is to manage to miniaturise everything so instead of a helmet you now got a pair of glasses. Still unconvincing though.

Other choice is to trash this helmet nonsense and go for projectors instead, the real VR. Theres places that use them already and that is what the industry should focus on. Bring the price down and make these projectors to work in a home envyronment and you likely will have a hit.

Helmets? Nah, never gonna happen unless they manage to somehow tap into your psyche and have dream like VR (aka no way).



Light weight headsets aren't the problem, yet we aren't there yet. You will need some sort of helmet to close over the eyes as external light bleed will ruin the immersion, plus it needs to cover the 150 degree fov of your eyes.

The problem isn't wearing the headset, it's not being able to see anything around you anymore. There needs to be some smart blending so you can still see your hands and the controller when needed by tracking them very well and rendering your arms in game. Also there needs to be options to render outlines of your furniture, room, people coming in as desired.

I'm not bothered about space requirements, I prefer to play sitting down anyway. Games will need to take into account that players can be sitting on a couch and not require you to stick your hands through the armrest to reach things.

What PSVR 2.0 needs most:
- Better tracking of the motion controllers
- Better tracking of the headset
- Better tracking of the player and his RL surroundings (currently there is none)
- Improved resolution
- Improved fov

The biggest issue I have while letting others play with psvr is that they often have no way to find the right buttons when prompted on screen. Press the big button on top, the trigger at the bottom, and find the tiny x or o. Oh you have your hands the wrong way around... You're facing the wrong way, reset, it's that button on the side, etc etc. It can use some Wii like accessibility!



SvennoJ said:
Light weight headsets aren't the problem, yet we aren't there yet. You will need some sort of helmet to close over the eyes as external light bleed will ruin the immersion, plus it needs to cover the 150 degree fov of your eyes.

The problem isn't wearing the headset, it's not being able to see anything around you anymore. There needs to be some smart blending so you can still see your hands and the controller when needed by tracking them very well and rendering your arms in game. Also there needs to be options to render outlines of your furniture, room, people coming in as desired.

I'm not bothered about space requirements, I prefer to play sitting down anyway. Games will need to take into account that players can be sitting on a couch and not require you to stick your hands through the armrest to reach things.

What PSVR 2.0 needs most:
- Better tracking of the motion controllers
- Better tracking of the headset
- Better tracking of the player and his RL surroundings (currently there is none)
- Improved resolution
- Improved fov

The biggest issue I have while letting others play with psvr is that they often have no way to find the right buttons when prompted on screen. Press the big button on top, the trigger at the bottom, and find the tiny x or o. Oh you have your hands the wrong way around... You're facing the wrong way, reset, it's that button on the side, etc etc. It can use some Wii like accessibility!

I've seen different games render the Oculus Touch differently.  

Some will have the controllers in game so you can see the buttons at all times.  Other's have the controllers insivible at all times.  Other's still have the controller visible, but have it rendered above your hand so your hands appear to be free but you can still the controller buttons.  

 

That list is the most important and I think it's pretty much the absolute minimum of what we can expect with a next gen PSVR.  



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Chazore said:

No offense, but your excitement and ideals just serve to throw me off gaming as a whole.

 

The last thing I'd want to see is for everything to be forced into a spectrum that not everyone wants it to be in. The way you talk about what your stock investors told you and what you think is the "perfect" future is nothing more than a future that serves only you, not me or people who think like me either.

Everything doesn't have to be in VR nor made solely for it, nor having all other media forms made to cater to dead last.

I don't know what to tell you, but in life things are going to change, and progression is going to happen. That doesn't mean that old things have to go away. I could give you examples for days on how things have progressed, adding value, and giving people more options, while still keeping the orginal tech and products alive and kicking.

Just because Rockstar takes GTA to VR, doesn't mean GTA like games can't be made on traditional setups. It means instead of Rockstar dumping massive money and talanet on simple tech, instead they throw the best people and money at the most advanced tech available. That leaves the space open for people with a passion for classic gaming to develop games to deliver a nostalgic experience for those that long for the experiences of yesteryear.

I also love getting back to my gaming roots. I love how they are bringing back Crash, Spyro, and Medevil. I waited 20 years for Nintendo to deliver a successor to Mario 64. I want a new Jak game. What I don't want is Naughty Dog and Insomniac utilizing the best talent in the industry to remake classic experiences. Let indies bring these classic experiences with classic controls to the lime light. While the best talent in  the indusrty continue to push the the limit on interactivith, immersion, gameplay, and story telling. Give them the tools to deliver their vision in the least limited form possible.

I am not sure how offering greater value, more options, and advancing the medium serves to throw you off of gaming. You don't want to see an even larger variety of games to choose from? You never want to see an advancement in the ways games are displayed and conrtrolled? You don't want more value from your purchase on your platform of choice, allowing you to stream or natively play your games across more devices and form factors? You don't want games and gaming devices to become more accessible to a large audience? What do you want?

I hope as tech and software advances more people are able to enjoy games they way they prefer, and on the hardware of their choice. I hope we continue to see advancements in the way games are devloped, displayed, and controlled. I hope that in the future we will both be able to enjoy this medium and these experiences in a way we find enjoyable.



Stop hate, let others live the life they were given. Everyone has their problems, and no one should have to feel ashamed for the way they were born. Be proud of who you are, encourage others to be proud of themselves. Learn, research, absorb everything around you. Nothing is meaningless, a purpose is placed on everything no matter how you perceive it. Discover how to love, and share that love with everything that you encounter. Help make existence a beautiful thing.

Kevyn B Grams
10/03/2010 

KBG29 on PSN&XBL

gergroy said:
My psvr just kind of gathers dust. Played some Skyrim and resident evil 7 on it, and I found I liked the games better without the vr... resolution is horrible, probably my biggest complaint. But movement still isn’t very fluid. I don’t think the tech is there, nor do I think it will ever be better than just playing on a screen. I probably just need to try and sell it to somebody that will actually use it...

I dunno. Complaining about resolution is like complaining about the lowered graphics in a switch game. It isn't nearly bad enough to make it unplayable.

VR now is for the experience more than anything else. but you are better off getting rid of it if you aren't going to use it. 



TallSilhouette said:

Just gonna leave this here.

Looking forward to second gen headsets.

If I had the room necessary, I'd happily pick up a VR headset and play that game, looks pretty fucking fun lol :P 



I think the big ones that are absolutely crucial for next gen VR (especially PSVR) are:

Inside out tracking - the HMD can be set up everywhere within seconds and functions very, very robustly + you can imidiatly get a view of the outside world by accessing the video feed of the tracking cams/objects+obstacles could be rendered in your VR environment (much more advanced than WMR HMDs and with 5+ cams to track the controllers in any position)
eye-tracking - the world reacts to your gaze and VR power requirements drop significantly due to foveated rendering
resolution - either much higher res displays or "Varjo bionic display" like overlay of a super high dpi display (in the fovea region, adjusted through eye-tracking) onto a wide fov display
lightweight, self-supporting, robustly tracking motion controllers that sense finger position (kinda already available with Oculus Touch)

added bonus would ofcourse be wireless, yet I think most VR games will still be played standing or sitting, so I don't imagine it would benefit the experience too much and bandwith/ping/stability requirements might be too much for 5G or other wireless connections to handle (+ increased weight/price for batteries, or a charge might not last long) - Laser could work, but has it's own problems like keeping line of sight

Last edited by Lafiel - on 24 June 2018

The grafix and other things on the technical side will be amazing just given time, but what about the controls? I think it looks ridiculous when the prefered method of moving around in Skryim VR and Fallout 4 and even in Doom VR is by teleporting.

There's something wrong when many players prefer to zap-teleport forward instead of walking forward by pushing a key on the keyboard or a stick on a controller like we do in ordinary games and controllers. How can they make movement in VR game World comfortable and immersive?