Jon-Erich said:
That wasn't the issue here. He never denied the same sex couple services. He simply said he could not decorate the cake the way the wanted it. They were even offered alternate options which they refused. If anything, he tried to provide them with a service, and they're the ones who turned down the service. I don't even know why this was an issue to begin with. The laws regarding this issue have been the same for over 50 years. So again, if a baker has a cake to sell and someone wants to buy that cake, services cannot be denied to that person. However, the law does not require the baker to decorate the cake. That would be like accusing McDonald's of denying you service just because they refused to put Big Mac sauce on a chicken sandwich. |
This is not correct. It wasn't because of any decoration they requested. He didn't deny a specific wedding cake - he denied selling them any wedding cake, including designs that he had delivered to previous customers. He did offer them other, non-wedding cakes, but his reason for not providing a wedding cake had nothing to do with what decoration they wanted, as he even refused designs he had previously baked.
Ka-pi96 said:
You're arguing that he should be allowed to refuse if he doesn't like what they're going to use the cake for. How are you not pushing your beliefs on others with that? And is not forcing people to undergo a background check to buy a cake, just in case the baker doesn't like some part of their lifestyle, a belief that shouldn't be pushed on to people? Why not? |
Background check? What's with your side using absolute hyperbole. A baker needs the names of the bride and groom. That's not a background check.
Refusing to make something you have to make, in your own store, is upholding your beliefs. He's not forcing them to believe what he does. He didn't call every baker in the region with a BS reason for them to not bake one for them, either. He's asking them if there was any other way to help them. And if they wanted a wedding cake still, it would be better for both parties if they found someone who had no reservations about doing it. No one changed their beliefs. The gay couple, who refused to just let it go, are the ones who are forcing their beliefs here. Either participate in our wedding or else.
Ka-pi96 said:
"your side"? You mean the side of discrimination against people based on race, gender or sexuality is wrong? |
No. The side that thinks everyone should think the same way and if not then it's the government's duty to force compliance
Last edited by Maxosaurus-rex - on 05 June 2018HollyGamer said:
Both of you are crying for a problem that are not exist. Read this with your brain (if you have any) every one have right to choose, have a right to have business with someone or to sell their product for someone based on their liking and their own choices, either religion, race, ideology etc. It's not like there is only one baker open in US for God sake. And also it's not life threatening matter or endangered people life. While medical service is different then bakeries, because it's involve life . It's clearly both of you don't have any logic here. |
The sad part is that I explained several times the logic but clearly if you did not get it back then I don't see how you'd get it now so If I were you I would avoid talking about other people's brains. When you make a bigoted argument in favor of discrimination, speaking of other people's brains is, how shall I put it? Rather clumsy.
numberwang said:
You still having answered my earlier question: would you use the power of the state to force the baker to express approvement of homosexual things under punishment. |
No why would I do that? I actually have answered your question several times through different posts to different people here. But here goes for you: I would use the law to force the baker to DO HIS JOB which It seems I must remind you is BAKING, not discriminating. His personal opinions do not give him the right to discriminate or at least shouldn't but with Trump at the white house it seems he has now that right, why am I not surprised?
Other than that he may write in his bakery that he hates gays and blacks and everything in between for all I care. In fact that way at least people could see clearly what level of ignorance that baker is from a distance and maybe avoid him or something.
Last edited by CrazyGamer2017 - on 05 June 2018Ka-pi96 said:
Right.... so anybody that thinks people shouldn't be refused service in a shop based on their sexuality is evil or something? |
Strawman much?
CrazyGamer2017 said:
No why would I do that? I actually have answered your question several times through different posts to different people here. But here goes for you: I would use the law to force the baker to DO HIS JOB which It seems I must remind you is BAKING, not discriminating. His personal opinions do not give him the right to discriminate or at least shouldn't but with Trump at the white house it seems he has now that right, why am I not surprised? Other than that he may write in his bakery that he hates gays and blacks and everything in between for all I care. In fact that way at least people could see clearly what level of ignorant that baker is from a distance and maybe avoid him or something. |
That's not the governments job.
Agree strongly on the verdict with this one. As a Christian who knows a bit of different branches, not all branches are against gay marriage. In fact I believe the Methodist church does ceremonies for gay marriage.
I myself have nothing against gay people and will attend a ceremony and give a gift if its for a close friend or family member, however I would refuse to have any sort of part in making the ceremony a thing such as best man or in this instance baking a cake.
I love the person inside and understand what they are doing completely and will do anything to help them in the future, but there are some lines I prefer to maintain in my beliefs as well.
Guys, this can't be used to set legal precedence because you could circumvent anyone in the name of religion. There is no end to chaos it would create. No black allowed, no Jews, no Muslims, No Whites? No Xbox gamers? There is a clear conflict of interest with ensuring equality under business practices and freedom of religion. THat why most states say you got just treat people like people and not like your perception of them.
They overturned the states ruling based on a technicality. They didn't decide that its okay for business to treat everyone like shit now.