By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Movies & TV - Solo Headed To Become A Flop? Yep, It Flopped.

 

How Much Will Solo Make WW?

Under $700M 56 60.87%
 
$700M-$800M 18 19.57%
 
$801M-$900M 12 13.04%
 
$901M-$1B 3 3.26%
 
Over $1B 3 3.26%
 
Total:92
Soundwave said:
Mandalore76 said:

That some pretty big revisionist history you've got worked up in your head:

This is from an interview back in 1980:
Alan Arnold: Tell me more about the overall concept of the Star Wars saga.

George Lucas: There are essentially nine films in a series of three trilogies. The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke's father when Luke was a little boy. This trilogy takes place some twenty years before the second trilogy which includes Star Wars and Empire. About a year or two passes between each story of the trilogy and about twenty years pass between the trilogies. The entire saga spans about fifty-five years.

AA: How much is written?

GL: I have story treatments on all nine. I also have voluminous notes, histories, and other material I've developed for various purposes. Some of it will be used, some not. Originally, when I wrote Star Wars, it developed into an epic on the scale of War and Peace, so big I couldn't possibly make it into a movie. So I cut it in half, but it was still too big, so I cut each half into three parts. I then had material for six movies. After the success of Star Wars I added another trilogy but stopped there, primarily because reality took over. After all, it takes three years to prepare and make a Star Wars picture. How many years are left? So I'm still left with three trilogies of nine films. At two hours each, that's about eighteen hours of film! 

Lucas has wildly changed his story over the years multiple times. When Revenge of the Sith came out he was adament there was only 6 films and that ROTS was absolutely the end of the story. 

Here's a fun interview with George saying politics were always a part of Star Wars and then a guy ripping Revenge of the Sith apart, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHnUr9wDu8

When Revenge of the Sith came out, George Lucas was 61 years old.  He stated at that time, that another trilogy would require 10 more years of his life.  And that he didn't have that in him.  He was willing to close the saga on 6 films, because it very nearly centered around the life of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.  In the 70's-80's interviews, he was much younger and had plenty of life ahead of him, and was therefore more willing to think of and talk about a trilogy centered around Luke Skywalker after Return of the Jedi.  

And going back to your statement that Lucas "made sh*t up as he went along" while filming the prequels:

"It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." ¯George Lucas, establishing guidelines for the Expanded Universe in 1977[src]

Midi-chlorians were first conceived by George Lucas as early as 1977. In this time the first Expanded Universe products were being created, including the ongoing Marvel Star Wars series and Alan Dean Foster's novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Lucas sat down with a member of his staff, Carol Titelman, to dictate a number of guidelines for these works, explaining various concepts of his universe. Among them were an explanation of midi-chlorians, which Force-sensitive beings were said to have more of in their cells.[34] However, Lucas did not feel he had the time to introduce the concept of midi-chlorians. The idea would not appear in any Star Wars product for twenty-two years; Lucas chose 1999's Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace as the opportunity to first mention the midi-chlorians, explaining why some were sensitive to the Force while others were not, an issue that he had left unresolved since the original film Star Wars. Lucas incorporated the explanation of midi-chlorians into the film as part of Anakin Skywalker's journey towards understanding the Force.[35] That Lucas had planned the midi-chlorians as far back as 1977 was hinted at on the DVD commentary of The Phantom Menace, but the details would not be fully revealed for another eight years, coming to light in the 2007 book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film, the hardcover edition of which had, among its appendices, Lucas' notes for the Expanded Universe authors.

Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

I would just ignore him. From debating with him previously, I have come to the conclusion that he is just a big James Cameron fan who seems to be pissed that Cameron was never able to create a franchise that had the same impact as SW, so he constantly belittles it. 

You're the one who's turned this into a zero sum game where box office is tied directly to how good a film is or what's relevant. 

So by your own logic Cameron IS the rightful king of your fanboy throne. Titanic and Avatar BOTH made more than any Star Wars or Marvel or any nerd franchise you want to bring up. So bend the knee. 

Also the Avatar ride has become the biggest attraction at Disney parks, with thousands of people waiting 2-3 hours in a line up just to get on a 5 minute Avatar, that's in the here and now. People underestimate that franchise at their own risk, what the "general public" and what the "nerd community online" thinks are often two very different things.

People wait on line 2-3 hours to get on a roller coaster that lasts a few minutes?  In other breaking news, water is wet.

By the way, you should credit the success of Titanic and Avatar to George Lucas as well.  The effects in those movies that everyone wowed over were created by Industrial Light & Magic.  The company that was founded by George Lucas in 1975 because he believed special effects could be done much better than what was available at the time.  But, he must have "fluked" his way into that too right?



Around the Network
Immersiveunreality said:
Chris Hu said:

Again it bombed because it was bad, not because the identity politics they injected into it.  Blaming a movie bombed because of SJW or injection of identity politics is almost Alex Jones level of insanity.  Also the movie was directed by a African American female so if the cast would have been completely white like in the book that actually would have been weird.

Allright i mildly agree here, firstly the new Star wars movies are just bad movies outside of the special effects but we cannot deny  political agenda adds on to its failure.If it was just implemented without them proudly using social media and other mediums to put a magnifying glass on it then it would maybe not got the bad attention that it has now but they just had to let everyone know how political correct they were.

Also putting up a big sign in front of your movies with HEY WE CARE ABOUT THESE THINGS makes them look dishonest because they do it in the hope to attract more buyers.

But yeah i stand with you that its still just a minor part of why the movies failed. :p

Yea, it makes me think of the facebook/youtube videos I see where some random nice civilian gives the shirt off his back to a homeless person. You know, that he magically managed to video tape and post on his youtube account and gets him millions of views. Such a selfless act that was there.

Or the fake, we gave this homeless person this and watch what happens. "oh, you magically where recording the entire thing from start to finish, what luck"

The more someone brags about charity work, doing good deeds, or that they are not homophobic, they are woke, ect the more they are faking it imo and doing it for an agenda/money/ect.



Chris Hu said:
Azuren said:

You want Alex Jones levels of insanity? You just inferred that the race of the director affects the race of established characters from an established literature.

Nope, its not as far as I know I never seen a African American director direct a movie with a all white cast.

Keep doubling down on that Alex Jones-level cognitive dissonance. You might have a future as a Disney employee.



Watch me stream games and hunt trophies on my Twitch channel!

Check out my Twitch Channel!:

www.twitch.tv/AzurenGames

Mandalore76 said:
Soundwave said:

Lucas has wildly changed his story over the years multiple times. When Revenge of the Sith came out he was adament there was only 6 films and that ROTS was absolutely the end of the story. 

Here's a fun interview with George saying politics were always a part of Star Wars and then a guy ripping Revenge of the Sith apart, lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giHnUr9wDu8

When Revenge of the Sith came out, George Lucas was 61 years old.  He stated at that time, that another trilogy would require 10 more years of his life.  And that he didn't have that in him.  He was willing to close the saga on 6 films, because it very nearly centered around the life of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.  In the 70's-80's interviews, he was much younger and had plenty of life ahead of him, and was therefore more willing to think of and talk about a trilogy centered around Luke Skywalker after Return of the Jedi.  

And going back to your statement that Lucas "made sh*t up as he went along" while filming the prequels:

"It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." ¯George Lucas, establishing guidelines for the Expanded Universe in 1977[src]

Midi-chlorians were first conceived by George Lucas as early as 1977. In this time the first Expanded Universe products were being created, including the ongoing Marvel Star Wars series and Alan Dean Foster's novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Lucas sat down with a member of his staff, Carol Titelman, to dictate a number of guidelines for these works, explaining various concepts of his universe. Among them were an explanation of midi-chlorians, which Force-sensitive beings were said to have more of in their cells.[34] However, Lucas did not feel he had the time to introduce the concept of midi-chlorians. The idea would not appear in any Star Wars product for twenty-two years; Lucas chose 1999's Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace as the opportunity to first mention the midi-chlorians, explaining why some were sensitive to the Force while others were not, an issue that he had left unresolved since the original film Star Wars. Lucas incorporated the explanation of midi-chlorians into the film as part of Anakin Skywalker's journey towards understanding the Force.[35] That Lucas had planned the midi-chlorians as far back as 1977 was hinted at on the DVD commentary of The Phantom Menace, but the details would not be fully revealed for another eight years, coming to light in the 2007 book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film, the hardcover edition of which had, among its appendices, Lucas' notes for the Expanded Universe authors.

Soundwave said:

You're the one who's turned this into a zero sum game where box office is tied directly to how good a film is or what's relevant. 

So by your own logic Cameron IS the rightful king of your fanboy throne. Titanic and Avatar BOTH made more than any Star Wars or Marvel or any nerd franchise you want to bring up. So bend the knee. 

Also the Avatar ride has become the biggest attraction at Disney parks, with thousands of people waiting 2-3 hours in a line up just to get on a 5 minute Avatar, that's in the here and now. People underestimate that franchise at their own risk, what the "general public" and what the "nerd community online" thinks are often two very different things.

People wait on line 2-3 hours to get on a roller coaster that lasts a few minutes?  In other breaking news, water is wet.

By the way, you should credit the success of Titanic and Avatar to George Lucas as well.  The effects in those movies that everyone wowed over were created by Industrial Light & Magic.  The company that was founded by George Lucas in 1975 because he believed special effects could be done much better than what was available at the time.  But, he must have "fluked" his way into that too right?

The special effects company don't magically pull shot lists out of their ass, what is on screen is 100% the vision and direction of James Cameron. By the way pretty sure Digital Domain (Cameron's own company) was the lead on Titanic, not ILM, and Avatar was not ILM either. 

The success of Titanic and Avatar is purely because Cameron understand story structure, can direct action (yes Titanic effectively becomes like a Die Hard film in the third act) clearly and concisely, and understands how to build emotion in a story better than almost any director in the fantasy/sci-fi/action genre (sorry Lucas and JJ, sit down and take notes). 

I don't doubt Lucas had crap ideas like the Midichlorians going back to '77. The Star Wars OT is largely likely a product of fluke in many ways because a lot of his terrible ideas weren't possible due to special effects limitations, Kasdan writing the scrips, his wife performing a huge re-cut on the original Star Wars, his friends helping him polish the dialogue in A New Hope's script, etc. etc. etc. When he was left to his devices, we saw what he did with the prequels and it was horrendous along with forcing aliens into Indiana Jones, something neither Spielberg or Ford wanted to do. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 21 June 2018

Soundwave said:
Mandalore76 said:

When Revenge of the Sith came out, George Lucas was 61 years old.  He stated at that time, that another trilogy would require 10 more years of his life.  And that he didn't have that in him.  He was willing to close the saga on 6 films, because it very nearly centered around the life of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader.  In the 70's-80's interviews, he was much younger and had plenty of life ahead of him, and was therefore more willing to think of and talk about a trilogy centered around Luke Skywalker after Return of the Jedi.  

And going back to your statement that Lucas "made sh*t up as he went along" while filming the prequels:

"It is said that certain creatures are born with a higher awareness of the Force than humans. Their brains are different; they have more midi-chlorians in their cells." ¯George Lucas, establishing guidelines for the Expanded Universe in 1977[src]

Midi-chlorians were first conceived by George Lucas as early as 1977. In this time the first Expanded Universe products were being created, including the ongoing Marvel Star Wars series and Alan Dean Foster's novel Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Lucas sat down with a member of his staff, Carol Titelman, to dictate a number of guidelines for these works, explaining various concepts of his universe. Among them were an explanation of midi-chlorians, which Force-sensitive beings were said to have more of in their cells.[34] However, Lucas did not feel he had the time to introduce the concept of midi-chlorians. The idea would not appear in any Star Wars product for twenty-two years; Lucas chose 1999's Star Wars: Episode I The Phantom Menace as the opportunity to first mention the midi-chlorians, explaining why some were sensitive to the Force while others were not, an issue that he had left unresolved since the original film Star Wars. Lucas incorporated the explanation of midi-chlorians into the film as part of Anakin Skywalker's journey towards understanding the Force.[35] That Lucas had planned the midi-chlorians as far back as 1977 was hinted at on the DVD commentary of The Phantom Menace, but the details would not be fully revealed for another eight years, coming to light in the 2007 book The Making of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind the Original Film, the hardcover edition of which had, among its appendices, Lucas' notes for the Expanded Universe authors.

People wait on line 2-3 hours to get on a roller coaster that lasts a few minutes?  In other breaking news, water is wet.

By the way, you should credit the success of Titanic and Avatar to George Lucas as well.  The effects in those movies that everyone wowed over were created by Industrial Light & Magic.  The company that was founded by George Lucas in 1975 because he believed special effects could be done much better than what was available at the time.  But, he must have "fluked" his way into that too right?

The special effects company don't magically pull shot lists out of their ass, what is on screen is 100% the vision and direction of James Cameron. By the way pretty sure Digital Domain (Cameron's own company) was the lead on Titanic, not ILM, and Avatar was not ILM either. 

The success of Titanic and Avatar is purely because Cameron understand story structure, can direct action (yes Titanic effectively becomes like a Die Hard film in the third act) clearly and concisely, and understands how to build emotion in a story better than almost any director in the fantasy/sci-fi/action genre (sorry Lucas and JJ, sit down and take notes). 

I don't doubt Lucas had crap ideas like the Midichlorians going back to '77. The Star Wars OT is largely likely a product of fluke in many ways because a lot of his terrible ideas weren't possible due to special effects limitations, Kasdan writing the scrips, his wife performing a huge re-cut on the original Star Wars, his friends helping him polish the dialogue in A New Hope's script, etc. etc. etc. When he was left to his devices, we saw what he did with the prequels and it was horrendous along with forcing aliens into Indiana Jones, something neither Spielberg or Ford wanted to do. 

You want people to take notes on how to take the story from Dances With Wolves and transfer it to space (Avatar)?



Around the Network

Aliens and The Terminator are by far James Cameron’s best films. Those two are amazing in general and yes definitely better than all but the best Star Wars movies, especially Aliens. Terminator II is excellent as well. Titanic is still good but Avatar is just a tedious and boring Dances With Wolves/Pocahontas rip-off. Seriously one of the worst films I’ve ever seen in theaters. The only reason back then to go see it, and most definitely why it’s box-office is so huge, was the 3D novelty. The sequel if it ever happens won’t get anywhere near it and I wouldn’t bet on it getting to half of the original’s take. In fact I assume it will be a worse drop-off than The Last Jedi was to The Force Awakens. Also, multiple Star Wars films, adjusted for inflation, wipe the floor with Avatar, and the 1977 Star Wars also handily beats Titanic.

But anyway.

Yeah Solo flopped big time it seems, not even going to reach 400m, and less than half of what I expected. Sad that it’s affected by backlash because it’s actually a pretty decent movie. Strange though, the numbers aren’t good, for all to see, but when I went yesterday evening the theater was still almost sold out. And it’s not like it’s shown only once a week. Maybe it’s coincidence or it actually does well enough here in Holland.



I've ignored this thread because it pisses me off. But I thought I'd toss my rant in here anyways.

Solo was an awesome star wars origin story. It is not like other SW movies in that there is no epic battle, etc. But, it is an awesome origin story that answers who Han is, how he and Chewy met, what his relationship is with Lando, how he obtained the Falcon, etc. All of which was interesting and a good story. On top of all of that, it left the ending in spectacular fashion where they can really expand the movie universe through other 'story' movies. This movie made me excited to see what they could possibly do with other star wars stories whereas Rogue One was clearly a one-off SW movie.

The only reason this movie "flopped" was due to the media. Before Solo launched the media was still foaming at the mouth with TLJ and began tearing Solo apart by focusing on pre-sale tickets. Like WTF. That created a self-fulfilling-prophecy by creating disinterest among the masses.

The movie was awesome.



superchunk said:
I've ignored this thread because it pisses me off. But I thought I'd toss my rant in here anyways.

Solo was an awesome star wars origin story. It is not like other SW movies in that there is no epic battle, etc. But, it is an awesome origin story that answers who Han is, how he and Chewy met, what his relationship is with Lando, how he obtained the Falcon, etc. All of which was interesting and a good story. On top of all of that, it left the ending in spectacular fashion where they can really expand the movie universe through other 'story' movies. This movie made me excited to see what they could possibly do with other star wars stories whereas Rogue One was clearly a one-off SW movie.

The only reason this movie "flopped" was due to the media. Before Solo launched the media was still foaming at the mouth with TLJ and began tearing Solo apart by focusing on pre-sale tickets. Like WTF. That created a self-fulfilling-prophecy by creating disinterest among the masses.

The movie was awesome.

The media?  That's a new one.  It's not accurate anyway.  Sure, they reported on the behind the scenes stuff, but closer to release most of the media was on Disney's side.  And the only things I saw reported about pre-sales of tickets were positive, minus those ones from China.  They were even claiming pre-sales of tickets were ahead of Black Panther.  Most of the media even tried to come up with excuses to explain away it flopping. 

No, Solo's main problem is that the general consensus was that it was a mediocre film, which may have still seen it be a hit, except for one thing.  It released after TLJ.  A film that has many fans saying they are just done with the franchise.  And merch sales are proving that they are in fact done.



thismeintiel said:
superchunk said:
I've ignored this thread because it pisses me off. But I thought I'd toss my rant in here anyways.

Solo was an awesome star wars origin story. It is not like other SW movies in that there is no epic battle, etc. But, it is an awesome origin story that answers who Han is, how he and Chewy met, what his relationship is with Lando, how he obtained the Falcon, etc. All of which was interesting and a good story. On top of all of that, it left the ending in spectacular fashion where they can really expand the movie universe through other 'story' movies. This movie made me excited to see what they could possibly do with other star wars stories whereas Rogue One was clearly a one-off SW movie.

The only reason this movie "flopped" was due to the media. Before Solo launched the media was still foaming at the mouth with TLJ and began tearing Solo apart by focusing on pre-sale tickets. Like WTF. That created a self-fulfilling-prophecy by creating disinterest among the masses.

The movie was awesome.

The media?  That's a new one.  It's not accurate anyway.  Sure, they reported on the behind the scenes stuff, but closer to release most of the media was on Disney's side.  And the only things I saw reported about pre-sales of tickets were positive, minus those ones from China.  They were even claiming pre-sales of tickets were ahead of Black Panther.  Most of the media even tried to come up with excuses to explain away it flopping. 

No, Solo's main problem is that the general consensus was that it was a mediocre film, which may have still seen it be a hit, except for one thing.  It released after TLJ.  A film that has many fans saying they are just done with the franchise.  And merch sales are proving that they are in fact done.

The media's attempts to downplay the effect of TLJ is kind of sad, to be honest. Not everyone disliked the film, but enough did to cause an effect. Rian Johnson's attitude and replies certainly didn't help. Remember the reactions most had to the director of that Ghostbusters reboot and his responses?

People also forget that not only were reactions to TLJ mixed, but that whole Battlefront 2 fiasco occurred a month before. It put Star Wars in a bad place in the eyes of its fans.



Azuren said:
Chris Hu said:

Nope, its not as far as I know I never seen a African American director direct a movie with a all white cast.

Keep doubling down on that Alex Jones-level cognitive dissonance. You might have a future as a Disney employee.

A Wrinkle In Time was written when most of the US was still segregated and discrimination was still legal.  Heck interracial marriages still where illegal in most states when it was first released.  Them adding a few minority characters to reflect current times and not the late 50's and early 60's I have no problem with.  Also its not like all white cast version adaptation of the book doesn't exists.  People that are butt hurt over the inclusion of minority actors in newest version can just watch the 2003 version instead.