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Forums - Gaming Discussion - I wish Overwatch had flopped sales-wise

Zkuq said:
Burning Typhoon said:
Except none of those are the selling points or reasons why people play overwatch. "OMG, guys! No campaign mode, and lootboxes! I can't wait!" You also don't have to buy any new characters as DLC, nor the stages, and can earn loot boxes for free, but let's just forget about that to keep your argument from falling apart.

Have you considered that if something something sounds too stupid to be true, you might have misunderstood it? In this case, the person here seems to wish Overwatch failed so it couldn't popularize lootboxes and the lack of campaign. It's not the consumers but the publishers that started liking lootboxes and thinking not having a campaign is viable (at least particially) because of Overwatch. That, I think, is the argument here. In other words, the argument seems to be that without Overwatch, we wouldn't have those two things or at least they'd be smaller.

Again, those aren't selling points.  No, I didn't misunderstand anything, because it blatantly ignores that overwatch has selling points, and things that make it a fun game that people want to play, just to push his agenda.  Even if overwatch wasn't the first.  How long did it take you to finish H1Z1's campaign?  How about Jetpack Joyride?  There's lots of games that don't have an offline campaign,  but I'm not going to search through google to tell you about the ones that came before overwatch.  We all know they exist.

It also ignores that overwatch, like I said, give away stages and characters away as free DLC and is updated and patched regularly.  So if a company looks at one part of overwatches strategy, and only sees the "how can we charge consumers," without the other aspect of why should consumers see value in the practices, then maybe I did consider that it was a silly comment.  And my verdict is that I completely understood it, and it was a silly comment.  People say silly things.  That was one of them.



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Ka-pi96 said:

1st part, it still isn't. FIFA was a hugely successful game with paid loot boxes long before Overwatch had even started development.

FIFA is a weird case, though. People always seem to look at it as if it was not a game, but something else. It seems to be on its own ecosystem if that makes sense. I mean, people freaked out about Battlefront 2 doing the exact same thing as FIFA has been doing for years. I guess the FIFA demographic is too different from any other game. Overwatch bring paid loot boxes for the "hardcore gamers" in a way. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's how I feel at least.

Ka-pi96 said:

2nd part, a bunch of MMOs for starters.

MMOs are fundamentally multiplayer-only experiences. "Massively Multiplayer Online", you know? That's because they offer a massive online connected world. Overwatch doesn't offer that. It's a regular FPS on its mechanics and world, just without any campaign.



B O I

For Lootboxes...you just don't buy them simple as that, I've put maybe around 60 hours into Overwatch and I haven't bought a single lootbox. The other part is that lootboxes are purely cosmetic stuff, so while I don't like them, they aren't doing any harm to the actual game or gameplay for the rest of the players.

For the campaign aspect...meh, the point of Overwatch is not really the story, is kind of like asking for a story in a non-RPG Mario game, or heck even something similar like Team Fortress 2. And the story is told via character introductions and short animations on youtube, which is honestly kind of cool I most say.



Nintendo and PC gamer

LuccaCardoso1 said:
Ka-pi96 said:

1st part, it still isn't. FIFA was a hugely successful game with paid loot boxes long before Overwatch had even started development.

FIFA is a weird case, though. People always seem to look at it as if it was not a game, but something else. It seems to be on its own ecosystem if that makes sense. I mean, people freaked out about Battlefront 2 doing the exact same thing as FIFA has been doing for years. I guess the FIFA demographic is too different from any other game. Overwatch bring paid loot boxes for the "hardcore gamers" in a way. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's how I feel at least.

Ka-pi96 said:

2nd part, a bunch of MMOs for starters.

MMOs are fundamentally multiplayer-only experiences. "Massively Multiplayer Online", you know? That's because they offer a massive online connected world. Overwatch doesn't offer that. It's a regular FPS on its mechanics and world, just without any campaign.

You need to expand your definition of a "massively multiplayer online" game, then.  Overwatch has no reloading, and no weapon pick-ups, meanwhile having healers, and resurrects, and a the characters themselves are just outright better than others, depending on situation.  You can't just always pick torb, sym, or any character, for that matter, and expect them to work well with the team 100% of the time.  It is not a regular basic game, or else it wouldn't have had the footing to be popular in the first place.

 But, all the areas in overwatch are closed off from the rest of the game, which would directly impact the gameplay, but let's just call it a regular FPS on that merit alone. 



Burning Typhoon said:
Zkuq said:

Have you considered that if something something sounds too stupid to be true, you might have misunderstood it? In this case, the person here seems to wish Overwatch failed so it couldn't popularize lootboxes and the lack of campaign. It's not the consumers but the publishers that started liking lootboxes and thinking not having a campaign is viable (at least particially) because of Overwatch. That, I think, is the argument here. In other words, the argument seems to be that without Overwatch, we wouldn't have those two things or at least they'd be smaller.

Again, those aren't selling points.  No, I didn't misunderstand anything, because it blatantly ignores that overwatch has selling points, and things that make it a fun game that people want to play, just to push his agenda.  Even if overwatch wasn't the first.  How long did it take you to finish H1Z1's campaign?  How about Jetpack Joyride?  There's lots of games that don't have an offline campaign,  but I'm not going to search through google to tell you about the ones that came before overwatch.  We all know they exist.

It also ignores that overwatch, like I said, give away stages and characters away as free DLC and is updated and patched regularly.  So if a company looks at one part of overwatches strategy, and only sees the "how can we charge consumers," without the other aspect of why should consumers see value in the practices, then maybe I did consider that it was a silly comment.  And my verdict is that I completely understood it, and it was a silly comment.  People say silly things.  That was one of them.

People bought Overwatch because it's a great game, no doubt. But publishers looked at its success and thought "Hey, I guess consumers don't care if we do these anti-consumer things then!". Do you understand what I'm saying now or do I have to spell it out for you?

H1Z1 and Jetpack Joyride (are you really mentioning a mobile game?) are not $60.

As I mentioned, Overwatch has many great things about it. They don't excuse it having loot boxes and no campaign though.



B O I

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I assume OP doesn't want to blame mobile for all the influence it has given AAA publishers, seeing as how they saw the money they weren't making just lying there on the table.

Also, what is with this weird line of logic, where every MP based game has to have a campaign, has to adhere to the SP crowd. I cannot for the life of me find an instance where a SP only player once thought "you know this would go great if it had MP", but instead we get the "it has to adhere to my desires or it should flop.

 

I will be very blunt for any responses toward that last part; I honestly give not a single damn about whatever excuse that is to be laid before me, that an MP game *has* to have an SP campaign. There is no grounded logic that SP has to dominate and control how the MP side of the industry functions, let alone how it thrives. I like both SP and MP, but in the case of Overwatch not having an SP mode, I couldn't care less, because it's world is brought to life via trailers, bio's, mini movies and official comics. TF2 had this same setup, and Blizzard seems to have taken that page from Valve on how to present it's characters and how to explain them to the user. 



Step right up come on in, feel the buzz in your veins, I'm like an chemical electrical right into your brain and I'm the one who killed the Radio, soon you'll all see

So pay up motherfuckers you belong to "V"

LuccaCardoso1 said:

People bought Overwatch because it's a great game, no doubt. But publishers looked at its success and thought "Hey, I guess consumers don't care if we do these anti-consumer things then!". Do you understand what I'm saying now or do I have to spell it out for you?

H1Z1 and Jetpack Joyride (are you really mentioning a mobile game?) are not $60.

As I mentioned, Overwatch has many great things about it. They don't excuse it having loot boxes and no campaign though.

It does excuse it.  If these other companies are looking solely at the lootboxes, they're missing the point.  Those same companies are not giving away free content, and regular updates with their game.  If it weren't for those optional paid lootboxes, that gives no competitive advantage in the game, there would be less content for the game overall, fewer updates.  Do you remember a time when every MMO required a paid subscription, which overwatch also doesn't do?  That's half the reason my consoles don't get touched anymore.

As for the games I mentioned. Overwatch was not 60 dollars.  I've never paid 60 bucks for the game, and I pre-ordered on blizzard's official site.



LuccaCardoso1 said:
areason said:
First of all the PC version is for 40 dollars, not 60.

Overwatch still sold 6.36 million on retail for consoles. You can switch "Overwatch" on the title for "Overwatch on consoles" or "Overwatch Game of the Year edition" if you want. My point still stands.

areason said:
2nd of all you forget to mention that overwatch has had constantly updated modes, events, maps, characters for free. That is something that traditional multiplayer shooters do not do.

That's a great aspect about Overwatch. Doesn't make it ok to have paid loot boxes and no campaign though.

areason said: 
Also not having a campaign isn't "anti consumer", it's a multiplayer game, that is what it wants to be. Deviating resources to making a campaign will hurt the quality of the core game. 

It's not anti-consumer to not have a campaign. It's anti-consumer to sell a multiplayer-only game for 60 dollars. By the way, do you really think Activision Blizzard, one the largest (if not the largest) publishers in the world doesn't have enough resources to make a campaign without worsening the multiplayer modes?

areason said: 
And when it comes to the loot boxes they aren't tied to any game system, it's just cosmetics.

Still exploiting people's tendencies to get addicted to gambling.

Why do multiplayer games have to cost less then 60 dollars? Is their some unwritten rule? If you think the game doesn't have enough content fair enough, but the mere fact that it is multiplayer only doesn't mean that it can't cost 60 dollars, 100 dollars or even thousand dollars. It's all about what is the value of the content. 

Regarding loot boxes, again their is nothing wrong with having microtranascations, it doesn't exploit anything just like alcohol and tobacco stores do not exploit the tendencies of people. Human beings are responsible for their own actions. Also how do you expect the game to still get support today, instead of creating post launch DLC and splitting the player base, the game has microtranscations which do not effect the game at all. This is how the PC market operates, and it is great at doing so. Games get support for years even up to decades, and that is supported by optional microtransactions. 

If Blizzard made a campaign for overwatch it would have had to to radically change the development cycle of the game, the amount of content at release, and so much more.

Again their is nothing wrong with a lack of a campaign or with loot boxes if the core game is of value and is good. 



Ka-pi96 said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

FIFA is a weird case, though. People always seem to look at it as if it was not a game, but something else. It seems to be on its own ecosystem if that makes sense. I mean, people freaked out about Battlefront 2 doing the exact same thing as FIFA has been doing for years. I guess the FIFA demographic is too different from any other game. Overwatch bring paid loot boxes for the "hardcore gamers" in a way. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's how I feel at least.

MMOs are fundamentally multiplayer-only experiences. "Massively Multiplayer Online", you know? That's because they offer a massive online connected world. Overwatch doesn't offer that. It's a regular FPS on its mechanics and world, just without any campaign.

Yet it was EA, the same company that publish FIFA, which added lootboxes to Battlefront 2. I think their own success with them would have had more impact in that decision than Overwatch, so yeah it's not fair to just blame that.

They kept paid loot boxes only for their sports games (and mobile games) before Overwatch. It was last year that they started putting loot boxes on everything they saw.

Disclaimer: That doesn't make EA any less shitty and I still hate them.

Ka-pi96 said:
LuccaCardoso1 said:

FIFA is a weird case, though. People always seem to look at it as if it was not a game, but something else. It seems to be on its own ecosystem if that makes sense. I mean, people freaked out about Battlefront 2 doing the exact same thing as FIFA has been doing for years. I guess the FIFA demographic is too different from any other game. Overwatch bring paid loot boxes for the "hardcore gamers" in a way. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's how I feel at least.

MMOs are fundamentally multiplayer-only experiences. "Massively Multiplayer Online", you know? That's because they offer a massive online connected world. Overwatch doesn't offer that. It's a regular FPS on its mechanics and world, just without any campaign.

Also, the FIFA demographic has a pretty big overlap with the COD demographic (outside the US at least, but I assume their Madden game is packed with loot boxes due to EA as well so they're no different) and considering this thread is probably in response to the latest COD game, saying FIFA doesn't count due to different demographics isn't really fair.

Madden + FIFA still don't sell nearly as much as CoD in the US. And even then, paid loot boxes aren't exclusive to CoD.

Ka-pi96 said: 
LuccaCardoso1 said: 

FIFA is a weird case, though. People always seem to look at it as if it was not a game, but something else. It seems to be on its own ecosystem if that makes sense. I mean, people freaked out about Battlefront 2 doing the exact same thing as FIFA has been doing for years. I guess the FIFA demographic is too different from any other game. Overwatch bring paid loot boxes for the "hardcore gamers" in a way. Sure, it's anecdotal evidence, but that's how I feel at least.

MMOs are fundamentally multiplayer-only experiences. "Massively Multiplayer Online", you know? That's because they offer a massive online connected world. Overwatch doesn't offer that. It's a regular FPS on its mechanics and world, just without any campaign.

Why can't shooters be multiplayer only experiences too though? Why can't there be a market for shooters focused solely on the multiplayer aspect. There's singleplayer only shooters such as Bioshock which sell for $60 so why not multiplayer ones too. As for others that have done the same, isn't Counter Strike a hugely successful mp only shooter? I've no idea if that was $60 at release since that was a LONG time ago now, but it's not F2P either.

We CAN have multiplayer-only FPS games, we just can't have them at full price! In my opinion, a single-player only FPS can be $60, but a multiplayer-only FPS can't (I guess we'll have to agree on disagree on that point).

CS:GO was always 15 dollars. I don't expect AAA multiplayer-only games to be that cheap, but I think $40 max should be a reasonable price.



B O I

Ka-pi96 said:
areason said:

Why do multiplayer games have to cost less then 60 dollars? Is their some unwritten rule? If you think the game doesn't have enough content fair enough, but the mere fact that it is multiplayer only doesn't mean that it can't cost 60 dollars, 100 dollars or even thousand dollars. It's all about what is the value of the content. 

Regarding loot boxes, again their is nothing wrong with having microtranascations, it doesn't exploit anything just like alcohol and tobacco stores do not exploit the tendencies of people. Human beings are responsible for their own actions. Also how do you expect the game to still get support today, instead of creating post launch DLC and splitting the player base, the game has microtranscations which do not effect the game at all. This is how the PC market operates, and it is great at doing so. Games get support for years even up to decades, and that is supported by optional microtransactions. 

If Blizzard made a campaign for overwatch it would have had to to radically change the development cycle of the game, the amount of content at release, and so much more.

Again their is nothing wrong with a lack of a campaign or with loot boxes if the core game is of value and is good. 

That's a flawed example since alcohol and tobacco stores aren't marketed towards children and require proof of age in order to buy stuff. Unless you think selling tobacco and alcohol to kids should be totally legal too because they should be "responsible for their own actions"?

Edit: Also, to add to that tobacco and alcohol clearly say what they have in them. Gambling always shows you the odds of winning and what the possible prizes are. Lootboxes don't, and is another reason they are exploiting people. Much easier for people to decide whether they want to spend money on something if they have an idea what that thing actually is.

And kids do not have credit cards or debit cards which would allow them to buy loot boxes without the consent of their parents, so you can shift the blame to the people who raised them. 

Just because betting has odds doesn't mean that it's different then lootboxes, the odds are regarding the payout and are not representative of the possibility of that happening. Just like you don't get a chart on a slot machine in a casino, you're not going to have a chart in overwatch that tells u the chance of getting a particular skin.