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Forums - Politics Discussion - Brexiters OUTRAGED after discovering that voting to abolish free movement means movement will no longer be free

fatslob-:O said:
Helloplite said:

Sorry, I am not a sheep. Nationalism was the norm. What you hear now is its death throes. 

 

Oh and newsflash: I really couldn't give a damn about the EU. I am no friend of faceless globalist structures, just as much as I am no friend of pitiful nationalist structures.

 

And good job of you not responding to any of my "sensitive" points. I guess that's how good you are at offering a response to arguments by others. It seems that you are the one who doesn't know how to "deal" with things that annoy you. You might need a lesson or two in raising, sustaining, and defending an argument.

 

Pitiful.

Nationalism is STILL the norm (195 "countries" and counting) and keep up your haughty farce of not being a so called "sheep" ... 

What's pitiful ARE your worthless points since it's petty defecate on your part to start hurling insults, bwahaha ... 

Tell me, do you feel empowered by the anonymity behind that display ? 

What has my anonymity to do with anything? You are just as anonymous as I am here. 

I am not sure who defecates on whom, or what, here - you will need to have a look at how at how a proper sentence is formulated. Judging by your increasingly agitated and inane responses, I assume I am hitting a soft spot there. Regretting not finishing school yet?

If my points ARE worthless, engage with them. Otherwise, stand in silence or keep hurling offensive remarks at people whose argumentative premise you fail to even comprehend at its most basic level. Serves me fine either way. You are barely important to my conscience.



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Helloplite said:

What has my anonymity to do with anything? You are just as anonymous as I am here. 

I am not sure who defecates on whom, or what, here - you will need to have a look at how at how a proper sentence is formulated. Judging by your increasingly agitated and inane responses, I assume I am hitting a soft spot there. Regretting not finishing school yet?

If my points ARE worthless, engage with them. Otherwise, stand in silence or keep hurling offensive remarks at people whose argumentative premise you fail to even comprehend at its most basic level. Serves me fine either way. You are barely important to my conscience.

Is this another one of your alt, SauveSocialist ? The fact that you have to question my education means that you have to keep talking trash behind your screen to pony up the internet strongman persona, haha ... 

If you're going to go in rambo in this topic asking some stranger over the internet about their qualifications then what the fuck are yours ? 

And your points are lame crap in itself cause the UK wants more control over it's own borders so deal with it and the fact that you have the audacity your push your bumbling nonsense in here so much means that you are getting sensitive ...  



fatslob-:O said:
Helloplite said:

What has my anonymity to do with anything? You are just as anonymous as I am here. 

I am not sure who defecates on whom, or what, here - you will need to have a look at how at how a proper sentence is formulated. Judging by your increasingly agitated and inane responses, I assume I am hitting a soft spot there. Regretting not finishing school yet?

If my points ARE worthless, engage with them. Otherwise, stand in silence or keep hurling offensive remarks at people whose argumentative premise you fail to even comprehend at its most basic level. Serves me fine either way. You are barely important to my conscience.

Is this another one of your alt, SauveSocialist ? The fact that you have to question my education means that you have to keep talking trash behind your screen to pony up the internet strongman persona, haha ... 

If you're going to go in rambo in this topic asking some stranger over the internet about their qualifications then what the fuck are yours ? 

And your points are lame crap in itself cause the UK wants more control over it's own borders so deal with it and the fact that you have the audacity your push your bumbling nonsense in here so much means that you are getting sensitive ...  

I do not know who that person is, but it is comforting to know that you still have no idea what you are talking about.

I never intended to make this into a conversation of qualifications, by any means. If you insist, I am a final-year doctoral student of political theory at a University in the United Kingdom. I teach global politics, global security, and democratic theory (three modules) to first and second-year undergraduates at a Russel Group University. In the course of the past five years, I have taught to over 600 individual students, from across the UK, Europe, and the rest of the world. I have spent the last 7 years researching critical global politics and political philosophy, from Aristotle and Plato to Schmitt, Derrida, Foucault and contemporary post-structuralists. I am well versed in all forms of political theory, from the classics to medieval theorists (such as Hobbes and Machiavelli, to the enlightenment period (Rousseau, Tocqueville), American political philosophy (Wilson, Madison, Hamilton), liberalism, nationalism (Ozkirimli, Armstrong, Smith, Gellner), Marxism, structuralism, post-Marxism, anarchism, and post-structuralism.

Personally, the outcomes of BREXIT are of little importance to me -- I will probably not be affected as much as others who are in more perilous and precarious situations, such as low-wage manual labour, etc. As a human being, I am of course concerned that Britain is fast losing its touch with reality and core democratic principles of accountability and human rights. 

You go ahead now, give me your qualifications since this is so important to you and to this conversation (to which you have still not responded -- just branding my position as 'lame crap' is a cop-out, and not much more).

Last edited by Helloplite - on 01 May 2018

Helloplite said:
fatslob-:O said:

Is this another one of your alt, SauveSocialist ? The fact that you have to question my education means that you have to keep talking trash behind your screen to pony up the internet strongman persona, haha ... 

If you're going to go in rambo in this topic asking some stranger over the internet about their qualifications then what the fuck are yours ? 

And your points are lame crap in itself cause the UK wants more control over it's own borders so deal with it and the fact that you have the audacity your push your bumbling nonsense in here so much means that you are getting sensitive ...  

I do not know who that person is, but it is comforting to know that you still have no idea what you are talking about.

I never intended to make this into a conversation of qualifications, by any means. If you insist, I am a final-year doctorate student of political theory and philosophy at a University in the United Kingdom. I teach global politics, global security, and democratic theory (three modules) to first and second-year undergraduates at a Russel Group University. In the course of the past five years, I have taught to over 600 individual students, from across the UK, Europe, and the rest of the world. I have spent the last 7 years researching critical global politics and political philosophy, from Aristotle and Plato to Schmitt, Derrida, Foucault and contemporary post-structuralists. I am well versed in all forms of political theory, from the classics to medieval theorists (such as Hobbes and Machiavelli, to the enlightenment period (Rousseau, Tocqueville), American political philosophy (Wilson, Madison, Hamilton), liberalism, nationalism (Ozkirimli, Armstrong, Smith, Gellner), Marxism, structuralism, post-Marxism, anarchism, and post-structuralism.

Personally, the outcomes of BREXIT are of little importance to me -- I will probably not be affected as much as others who are in more perilous and precarious situations, such as low-wage manual labour, etc. As a human being, I am of course concerned that Britain is fast losing its touch with reality and core democratic principles of accountability and human rights. 

You go ahead now, give me your qualifications since this is so important to you and to this conversation (to which you have still not responded -- just branding my position as 'lame crap' is a cop-out, and not much more).

Don't try to argue with that guy. It's not worth it.



brendude13 said:
Errorist76 said:

Why shouldn’t he care? Why shouldn’t every other European care? The EU is a great thing, even though things need to be reformed for certain and because of some old, scared fuckers and xenophobe assholes now everybody in the UK has to suffer. I feel sorry for all those people, all my friends who voted against it..and most of all I feel sorry for the fact, that a proud nation like the UK plays the coward of the continent.

The UK was always refusing to take responsibility, when they were in the EU. Maybe it’s better when they’re out...they always seemed to prefer their lonely island anyway. It’s still very sad and every European has the right to have an opinion about it. Period.

You use the word "some" like it's insignificant. Not 16+ million people and 52% of those who voted.

This vitriol and misrepresentation is exactly why the UK is in this situation (not one I wanted to be in, by the way).

16+ million fooled by misinformation are still only "some". The ones to blame are clearly the ones not taking it seriously enough and staying at home instead, because they didn't believe such a thing could happen. Including the numbers of protest voters of course, who regretted their vote right afterwards. You know how it went.



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Errorist76 said:
brendude13 said:

You use the word "some" like it's insignificant. Not 16+ million people and 52% of those who voted.

This vitriol and misrepresentation is exactly why the UK is in this situation (not one I wanted to be in, by the way).

16+ million fooled by misinformation are still only "some". The ones to blame are clearly the ones not taking it seriously enough and staying at home instead, because they didn't believe such a thing could happen. Including the numbers of protest voters of course, who regretted their vote right afterwards. You know how it went.

Very well said. Or, in the words of Plato, "the price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men". Or, as Franklin said in a similar manner: "a nation of well-informed men cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins". It is sad that so many centuries later, it is still apathy and ignorance that undermine the efficacy and quality of society at large.



contestgamer said:

Because I want countries to maintain their identities. Multicultural countries become Americanized countries. European countries have existed for thousands of years, with rich culture, geneology, customs, etc. America/Canada can be multicultural, because thats how they were created. Not every country needs to be. I dont even care if theyre good people or not, I care about maintaining identity and heritage. 

@bolded: Nationhood as a concept isn't even that old in europe, that basically emerged after the 100 years war when feudalism came to end.

And it's so ironic that so many brits apparently fear immigrants, considering how many out of their former colonies (especially British India) have settled there and brought their culture with them. Cheap eastern European workers have kept farming and factory production alive in the UK when everybody else moved to offices and services. The UK was a country of immigration throughout most of the last century. It's part of the heritage to be multicultural. If you don't like that, you'll have to throw everybody out with colonial heritage - but then the Island would be pretty empty.



contestgamer said:
palou said:

The UK is not part of Schengen. There is no obligatory free movement between mainland Europe and the UK due to the EU. They're also fully entitled to refuse taking refugees. And have the same rights to check anyone coming in if they are or aren't in the Union.

 

There also haven't been "millions" coming into the UK. Muslims, yes, but perfectly legal muslims that your country accepted as legal immigrants. Again, your choice. Germany isn't forcing you to take anyone. That's a decision they made by themselves. Unsurprisingly, the vast majority of the migrants consequently landed in Germany. 

 

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/c/cc/Number_of_%28non-EU%29_asylum_seekers_in_the_EU_and_EFTA_Member_States%2C_2016_and_2017_%28thousands_of_first_time_applicants%29_YB18.png

(these are all asylum applicants, including both the accepted and rejected.

 

Also, the refugee crisis is pretty much over, by now. 

 

https://www.ft.com/content/1db1a8ec-2c26-11e8-9b4b-bc4b9f08f381

http://migration.iom.int/docs/Q3_Overview_Arrivals_to_Europe.pdf

Actually Germany is trying to FORCE redistribution of migrants across the eu. 

Not Germany, but the countries where the immigrants arrive first, like Spain, Italy and especially Greece.

Greece only has a fraction of Britain's size or population, but had more immigrants because they're the first country of the EU for most of the migrants. Add to this their economic crisis, and you'll understand that Greece couldn't handle even more immigrants. Spain and Italy got similar problems, but from migrants out of Africa coming by ships (if they make it, thousands have died over the last years by drowning with those old, overcrowded and overfilled ships sailing to Davy Jones'Locker)



Errorist76 said:
contestgamer said:

Because I want countries to maintain their identities. Multicultural countries become Americanized countries. European countries have existed for thousands of years, with rich culture, geneology, customs, etc. America/Canada can be multicultural, because thats how they were created. Not every country needs to be. I dont even care if theyre good people or not, I care about maintaining identity and heritage. 

So you’re a racist. Alright.

You're a moron. Good job conflating nationalism with racism, especially to someone in a multi racial relationship XD



Errorist76 said:
contestgamer said:

Because theres freedom of movement within the EU and we have had millions of muslim migrants that have entered the EU thanks to Germany. The only way to protect the borders is to leave the EU

Millions...thanks to Germany...

You do realise that the wars your f’in country fought with the Americans, which have destroyed half of the Middle East, are responsible for those refugees/Muslims?! Not Germany, you narrow minded people.

And all that after you’ve colonised half of the planet for centuries. Ignorance is bliss I guess. It’s probably better guys like you just stay on your island and never leave it again.

Well I'm not British, although I'm half European though. You make it seem like those middle eastern places were such fairy tales before the Ameircans went in.  They weren't. It's telling that none of the rich middle eastern countries are even accepting any of these refugees. If they dont have to accept them, why do we?