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Forums - Politics Discussion - Brexiters OUTRAGED after discovering that voting to abolish free movement means movement will no longer be free

contestgamer on 01 May 2018
VGPolyglot said:
contestgamer said:

Canada =/= Europe there's no parallel. Canada has been multicultural from its inception. That is not European heritage. 

No, it has not. Aboriginals couldn't even vote until 1960, there's the Chinese Immigration Act that racially motivated immigration, and they turned away Jewish refugees

contestgamer said:

Yeah but people don't identity with borders, they identify with cultural heritage. That's why you don't see a whole lot of German xenophobia targeting Austrians the way you do muslims.

And their cultural heritage is linked to that of a state.

 

That doesnt mean it wasnt multicultural. They were discriminated against, but the country still had many cultures of different races living under one border.

"And their cultural heritage is linked to that of a state."

Not necessarily, again, borders change throughout history all the time. Hungary lost a big chunk of their borders after WW2 to Romania. The Hungarians living now in Transylvania are still patriot hungarians evethough they live within Romanian borders. Language, culture matter more than borders.



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Helloplite on 01 May 2018
black8jac said:
VGPolyglot said:

How would you lose your identity? Unless you base your entire identity on your nationality.

It's big part of our identity. As being born in European country I share most of the values of Christianity. That is despite being an atheist. If we try to diminish that values we expose ourselves to indoctrination of values of others maybe not as liberal as our cultures. We shouldn't, in my opinion, dilute our identity we should cherish and embrace it. 

I give you an example. In Europe, at the moment, there is a trend to invite and harbour people from Middle East. As much as noble it is, a big part of these people have no intention to integrate and at least respect our values. It is quite opposite, the core of their values is to indoctrinate others to their liking.

Identity preexists nationalism. No one says that identities did not exist prior to nationalism as an ideology. You can have an identity, without being a nationalist. You cannot be a nationalist, without having an identity. Nationalism is an ideology. It is not tautonymous with the concept of identity.

Identity is primordial, nationalism is a modern construct. They are not exactly apples and oranges, but more like using oranges to make marmalade.

I shall point out to you that probably every kind of social change and transformation was, due, at least in part, to a disagreement, or the emergence of something new and different that broke pre-existing patterns. Whether we speak of the emergence of the concept of citizen, through the collective struggles of all common peasants against the cultural hegemony of aristocracy; or the abolition of slavery and the emancipation of women, through the struggle to expand a previously limited definition of mankind and citizen respectively, sometimes dilution of ideology is not a bad thing at all.

 

I respect your concern about the impacts of multiculturalism on Identity, and I am not at all suggesting that the above process I explained is always beneficial and / or benign.

 



Helloplite on 01 May 2018
contestgamer said:
Helloplite said:

And, to reiterate a point I made in a further clarifying edit:

 

Hitler's openings to Muslims, and Carl Schmitt's student being a Jew is the very equivalent of someone saying "I cannot be a racist, my gf/friends are mixed race". 

 

Denial is the first step to ignorance.

 

As I said. Reading comprehension. Master it, son.

Ah I see, so we're cherry picking what one person through human history said to make a point. There has NEVER been a non racist with a friend of another race right? lol cmon, you're a joke.

Seriously now. Read what I am writing more carefully, or give this to a friend to read it for you. You are absolutely lost in limbo in this conversation. I've seen parrots being more sensible.



contestgamer on 01 May 2018
Helloplite said:
contestgamer said:

Ah I see, so we're cherry picking what one person through human history said to make a point. There has NEVER been a non racist with a friend of another race right? lol cmon, you're a joke.

Seriously now. Read what I am writing more carefully, or give this to a friend to read it for you. You are absolutely lost in limbo in this conversation. I've seen parrots being more sensible.

Unfortunately you've reached that level of idiocy where you no longer even realize your level of idiocy. There's no coming back from that stage. 



Helloplite on 01 May 2018
contestgamer said:
Helloplite said:

Seriously now. Read what I am writing more carefully, or give this to a friend to read it for you. You are absolutely lost in limbo in this conversation. I've seen parrots being more sensible.

Unfortunately you've reached that level of idiocy where you no longer even realize your level of idiocy. There's no coming back from that stage. 

Yes. I am an idiot. I'll wear this as a badge of honour, knowing it came from you. 



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Helloplite on 01 May 2018
contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

No, it has not. Aboriginals couldn't even vote until 1960, there's the Chinese Immigration Act that racially motivated immigration, and they turned away Jewish refugees

And their cultural heritage is linked to that of a state.

 

That doesnt mean it wasnt multicultural. They were discriminated against, but the country still had many cultures of different races living under one border.

"And their cultural heritage is linked to that of a state."

Not necessarily, again, borders change throughout history all the time. Hungary lost a big chunk of their borders after WW2 to Romania. The Hungarians living now in Transylvania are still patriot hungarians evethough they live within Romanian borders. Language, culture matter more than borders.

CTRL+F "borders"

He speaks of state, you speak of borders? Tut tut...



contestgamer on 01 May 2018
Helloplite said:
contestgamer said:

 

That doesnt mean it wasnt multicultural. They were discriminated against, but the country still had many cultures of different races living under one border.

"And their cultural heritage is linked to that of a state."

Not necessarily, again, borders change throughout history all the time. Hungary lost a big chunk of their borders after WW2 to Romania. The Hungarians living now in Transylvania are still patriot hungarians evethough they live within Romanian borders. Language, culture matter more than borders.

CTRL+F "borders"

He speaks of state, you speak of borders? Tut tut...

Yeah, my whole point was that borders dont define your identity. History does.



KoiIroRazu on 01 May 2018
contestgamer said:
Pemalite said:

Australia implements EU regulations when we aren't in the EU. Mostly for things like Tech/Safety standards.
And that's a good thing, because the EU have stringent guidelines and testing procedures.

Do you need to be so derogative? Who gives a shit if someone is German?
It's in the past, treat it as such.

I don't hold any ill-will for all the horrible things the British did in the past, especially when it came to the treatment of native inhabitants of various lands.

Why did it need to be stopped?
Just because someone comes from outside the EU, doesn't mean they have nefarious reasons.

Perhaps you should look towards other nations who are highly successful and multicultural as an example?

Muslims aren't a race. They aren't confined to various geographical areas.
In-fact, the majority of Muslims are not even in the Middle East.

You can have someone who is 100% European and be Muslim.
It's just bigoted nonesense in the end.

Because I want countries to maintain their identities. Multicultural countries become Americanized countries. European countries have existed for thousands of years, with rich culture, geneology, customs, etc. America/Canada can be multicultural, because thats how they were created. Not every country needs to be. I dont even care if theyre good people or not, I care about maintaining identity and heritage. 

1st bold: and that's our winner right here.

2nd bold: why's that important exactly? I'd like to hear your reasons behind that.



KoiIroRazu on 01 May 2018
celador said:
ah, you're German, this post and your anger makes sense now. third time you've tried to control the UK in the last century and failed, no wonder you are bitter.

Oh yeah. He/We totally tried to do that.

EU =/= Germany no matter your idiotic conspiracy theories, so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Also: OP didn't even seem that bitter, you're jumping to conclusions and interpret things in a way that makes your narrative better. yeah, go ahead and think that we're all soooo bitter.



contestgamer on 01 May 2018
KoiIroRazu said:
contestgamer said:

Because I want countries to maintain their identities. Multicultural countries become Americanized countries. European countries have existed for thousands of years, with rich culture, geneology, customs, etc. America/Canada can be multicultural, because thats how they were created. Not every country needs to be. I dont even care if theyre good people or not, I care about maintaining identity and heritage. 

1st bold: and that's our winner right here.

2nd bold: why's that important exactly? I'd like to hear your reasons behind that.

Because I'm half American/half European. In American I enjoy the multiculturalism, especially here in NYC. Everyone is different, every cuisine is available. It's fun. When I go travelling back to Europe though I'm sick of seeing it becoming more and more Americanized. Same thing when I travel to other overseas countries. I travel because I want to immerse myself in the historic culture of the location, and ONLY its culture - not its culture diluted/mixed with others. When I go to Turkey I want to see Turkish/Islamic culture - I dont want to see it diluted or mixed with other faces/architectural styles/languages and customs. I dont need the whole world to become the same in an ironic quest for diversity.