By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - " Update "When Can Sony Deliver A True Generational Leap? - Digital Foundry & Gamer NX

 

Do you agree

Yes 12 57.14%
 
No 2 9.52%
 
In between 4 19.05%
 
See result 3 14.29%
 
Total:21
Cerebralbore101 on 15 April 2018
BraLoD said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Full BC included right? I'd go for that. It might even do 4K and 60 FPS at the same time!

Well it would be nice but it's not a need.

But they are definitely going for the $500 price tag, as will MS as well.

Honestly they could even go for $600 if both went for it together, it's not 2006 anymore, smartphones are yearly way above that, people are willing to pay that much for new tech if that's the norm, and we could get quite stronger hardware with that as well.

But Sony will not leap $200 on a single time, so it'll be $500.

I forsee a graphics wall where, hardware doesn't determine how good a game looks, but rather the talent behind the studio. The more costly the PS5 the closer it gets to that wall. And the closer it gets to that wall the more future proof it will be. Unless we want 20K, 120 FPS there's no need to go any further after a certain point. IMO the future is in 3-D HMD/VR with a controller as the main input. Not in 20K/120 FPS. 

So yeah, provided BC is there, I welcome a $500 - $600 PS5/XB2.



Around the Network
VAMatt on 15 April 2018
BraLoD said:
Cerebralbore101 said:

Full BC included right? I'd go for that. It might even do 4K and 60 FPS at the same time!

Well it would be nice but it's not a need.

But they are definitely going for the $500 price tag, as will MS as well.

Honestly they could even go for $600 if both went for it together, it's not 2006 anymore, smartphones are yearly way above that, people are willing to pay that much for new tech if that's the norm, and we could get quite stronger hardware with that as well.

But Sony will not leap $200 on a single time, so it'll be $500.

I think it is a near certainty that both Sony and MS will launch at $399.  They've both learned the hard lesson of slow sales with launches above that price.  



Cerebralbore101 on 15 April 2018
VAMatt said:
BraLoD said:

Well it would be nice but it's not a need.

But they are definitely going for the $500 price tag, as will MS as well.

Honestly they could even go for $600 if both went for it together, it's not 2006 anymore, smartphones are yearly way above that, people are willing to pay that much for new tech if that's the norm, and we could get quite stronger hardware with that as well.

But Sony will not leap $200 on a single time, so it'll be $500.

I think it is a near certainty that both Sony and MS will launch at $399.  They've both learned the hard lesson of slow sales with launches above that price.  

PS3, and XB1 both sold poorly, because they were relative rip-offs for their price point. PS3 was $500-$600 because of Blu-Ray. XB1 was $500 because of Kinect. Both systems lacked backwards compatibility to entice users to trade in and upgrade. 

Edit: PS3 had BC, but only the $600 model. 



JRPGfan on 15 April 2018

I must be the only one here.... who doesnt care too much?

I rather sony try to keep it at 400$, than do a 500$ machine thats more powerfull ect.
Graphics are at a point where I honestly dont feel like I need much more.

15 Tflops @499$
13 Tflops at @449$
11 Tflops at @399$

Which is best? imo the 399$ one.



Johnw1104 on 15 April 2018
LethalP said:
Johnw1104 said:

With the mid-gen refreshes that "generational leap" is a bit complicated... they'd have to wait a decent while before they could vastly outperform the Xbox 1 X while maintaining affordability.

I imagine the next generation of consoles will not be an enormous upgrade over the Xbox 1 X/PS4 Pro, but will still be substantially better. As they say in the video, the true "generational leap" will be when compared to the original models, and specifically will see a big improvement in the processors and memory.

Also, my lord look at that like/dislike bar on that video... Fanboys can be ridiculous, that was a very level-headed and informative video. Why is everyone so anxious for some miracle box to release so soon anyway? The Pro and Xbox 1 X already offer some very impressive visuals if that matters so much to you.

PS5 games will be made from the ground up for that system, the Pro/X doesn't have that luxury. So even if it's only twice as fast (12 TFLOPS), games will look much better because they don't have to work on the last gen systems.

Look at GoW on base PS4, vs the Pro. They are identical in all ways but resolution yet GoW is one of the best looking games ever made. In an age of 20+ TFLOP SLI PC's. A game optimized to look like that on a 1.8 TFLOP console. So imagine a game that uses 12 TFLOPS to the same degree? That's where the generational leap will come from.

Well that's certainly true about as far back as consoles go... Looking at Mr Gimmick and Little Samson on the Nes or Pitfall 2 on the Atari VCS and comparing them with the early games for those platforms you'd hardly believe they belonged to the same console. Heck, I was shocked recently to see how bad the first Dead Rising game looked, as I remembered it looking amazing as a launch title for the Xbox 360 lol

I suppose the main issue is whether or not Sony would want to cut off such an enormous and dominant base of customers in the near future with such a console. They may be forced to by 2020 depending on what the next Xbox looks like and how far into development it is, but I can't imagine they're eager to leave the PS4 behind.



Around the Network
VAMatt on 15 April 2018
Cerebralbore101 said:
VAMatt said:

I think it is a near certainty that both Sony and MS will launch at $399.  They've both learned the hard lesson of slow sales with launches above that price.  

PS3, and XB1 both sold poorly, because they were relative rip-offs for their price point. PS3 was $500-$600 because of Blu-Ray. XB1 was $500 because of Kinect. Both systems lacked backwards compatibility to entice users to trade in and upgrade. 

Edit: PS3 had BC, but only the $600 model. 

Okay.  But, the crappy launch-window sellers in that bunch had one thing in common - higher prices than their competitors at launch.  



VAMatt on 15 April 2018
BraLoD said:

MS just launched a $500 XBX and is pretty happy about it.

Yeah.  But, that's not really a console launch in the traditional sense.  It is an upgraded, premium unit within an existing console family.  Just a few years ago they launched in the traditional way at $499 and regretted it.  A generation ago Sony launched at a relatively high price and regretted it as well.    



chakkra on 15 April 2018

My money is on 2020-2021.  And I think both will go for the $499 price point.



Intrinsic on 15 April 2018

I called it, this is pretty much what I have been screaming for a while now.... down to the specs. Especially the 15TF thing and HBM2/GDDR6 ram. And of course how no one should expect anything till 7nm fabrication reaches maturity which wouldnt be till like 2020.





Pemalite on 15 April 2018
KBG29 said:
Couldn't agree more. A CPU leap is no issue at all, but a GPU, Memory, and Storage leap is questionable. I hope they hold off until 7nm+ so that they can deliver a generational leap at every level. My PS5 would be Zen 3, NGGPU @ 20+TFLOP/s, with 64GB of RAM, and a 2 - 4TB NVMe SSD @ $400 - $500 in 2021 or 2022. That would offer a true genrational leapat every aspect.

As far as Ray Tracing goes, that is absolutely a requirement for the next gen. A next gen needs a generational leap in rendering tech. Ray Tracing will offer an undeniable leap over this generation that will be something that even the most casual consumer will be able to see and understand. That is where they can easily convince people to upgrade.

Pure Ray Tracing is still a long way away. So you might as well put that expectation to rest.

What we will get is a hybrid Rasterization/Ray Tracing approach... We started heading down that path with Battlefield 3/Frostbite 2 on the Xbox 360/Playstation 3... But there is so much more room to move forward as compute gets significantly better, the transition is going to take time, it's not going to be an instant jump to pure Ray Tracing.

Cerebralbore101 said:

All I want for next gen is backwards compatibility and a choice between true 4k, or 60 FPS in the options menu of all games. After that, just give us games on the technical level of GoW and I'm good. 

There should be a strong likelihood of backwards compatibility.
But just because the chips use the same ISA, doesn't guarantee it though, lots of other things can change that breaks it.


Cerebralbore101 said:


Aside from faster loading times, bigger HD and a billion times more RAM going from PS3 to PS4 wasn't that big of an upgrade. We're really running up against the wall here with graphics. Next gen, graphics won't depend on the hardware, but rather the talent of the studio behind the game. GoW looking as good as it does on base PS4 is proof of that.

I dunno. So many games ran at sub 720P and sub 30fps... Allot of the geometric details in worlds on the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 was relatively coarse.
It's so hard for me to go back to those old consoles, then again... I was also highly critical of them back in the day for the exact same reason.


VAMatt said:

That video was basically a whole lot of words to say "Sony (and MS) can launch consoles with a 'generational leap' whenever they way, if they're willing to lose a bunch of money on hardware sales."  Or, "about 2020 if they want to break even".

So, yeah, I agree.

Pretty much that. The technology for a generational leap has been around for years now.
It's just not affordable for a cheap device.

JRPGfan said:

Graphics are at a point where I honestly dont feel like I need much more.

Graphics has so much more room to move.
There is a stupidly massive amount of room to move in regards to simulation quality... But then again, you're still clinging to flops which wouldn't represent that.
The difference between PC and Console is startling, and they are games of the same generation, same engines etc'.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--