By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General - The American family is falling apart

RolStoppable said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Oh boy you guys don't make it easy on me do you? AGAIN for the millionth time, WHERE do I say that the victim must be blamed?

I said the victim needs to take responsibility for a mistake, not for the crime, you BLAME someone for the crime, not for a mistake.

If I may say something to all that have been arguing against me on this issue, how can I make you understand that I obviously understand that a victim of rape is NOT to be blamed for the crime (obviously) or even the mistake. That victim needs simply to take responsibility like we all do in whatever decisions we take in our lives.

Right now I take responsibility for standing up with my opinion on a sensitive topic. That means I am NOT responsible for people calling me names or this guy judging me on my age (really) but not even trying to bring up an opinion on this matter and calling me lazy in my arguments or trying to run away from it when I am CLEARLY debating this issue and not bailing out.

Some of you are "guilty" of little things of course, no big deal, but things like name calling or judging on age, or judging on words I did not say etc... but I DO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for debating this and the CONSEQUENCE of my responsibility is that I'm getting all this little attacks BECAUSE I CHOSE to debate a sensitive issue. See how responsibility works? If I had not debated this or kept my opinion to myself I wouldn't be here debating literally alone against a group of people intent on making me say what I did not say.

Do you realize the irony here? According to your arguments I should NOT take responsibility for my opinion, yet by debating with me, attacking me, name calling me for some of you, you are sending the message that I expressed a sensitive opinion and that I must take responsibility for it, which is EXACTLY the point I have been trying to make here.

So I DO take responsibility for my opinion. YET name callers are still guilty of name calling or age judging etc as their choice to name call me is not my "crime" it's theirs (Not literally a crime, I use the word crime again as an example to the main issue we discuss).... You are making me take responsibility while arguing that as simply giving my opinion I should not take responsibility of the consequences. The irony is powerful here.

There's no irony here. A victim of rape did not perform any action. You, however, did perform actions. This means that you do not fit the role of a victim, but rather the role of an aggressor and that's why you have to take responsibility for the poor argumentation that you have displayed in this thread.

How do you even equate action to an opinion? How is an opinion an action, RAPE is an action, talk is an opinion. What action did I take? If you think I took action, tell me who are you accusing me of raping?

Is there a single accusation on this debate that makes sense. The only thing you ALL got is that you disagree with me but accusing me of some action? Accusing me of taking action when the debate is about rape, does "going too far" mean anything to you?

I am amazed that it takes so much effort to get an opinion through to you guys, just an opinion which you are free to disagree with. Why do you feel the need to name call, age judge, accuse me of "actions"? I'm amazed guys, honestly, like not in a good way "amazed".

User was moderated for this post

-Super_Boom

Last edited by Super_Boom - on 07 April 2018

Around the Network
CrazyGamer2017 said:

How do you even equate action to an opinion? How is an opinion an action, RAPE is an action, talk is an opinion. What action did I take? If you think I took action, tell me who are you accusing me of raping?

"talk" is not an opinion. An opinion is what in your head. Expressing an opinion is an action. 

By the way, it's very dirty of you that after a mod told me I should drop a subject you used it as a way to play victim when I think I have made it clear that "lightweight" or "You should be mature enough to handle some heat" were NOT insults at you and I still can't believe that it was interpreted that way. It was only brought up by a mod because as a technicality it could be seen as flaming or the like. I am fine with dropping it if you do but again, they were not insults and you do not have to act like they were. 



CrazyGamer2017 said:
VGPolyglot said:

If they are not to be blamed for the mistake, then what is there to take responsibility for?

To themselves. It's by being critical to yourself that you progress in life.

And before someone misconstrue what I just said, I DO NOT mean blaming yourself for being raped, I meant take responsibility that you ended up marrying a person that turned out to be dangerous and that you now realize that you obviously did not know him well enough to marry him.

If you don't do that you can fall again for another rapist later on. Because if you don't take responsibility, why should you be careful of who you marry, in fact, marry someone you don't know and that you met 5 minutes ago, if something goes wrong, it's not your responsibility so you are not supposed to be careful of whom you marry because according to you guys it's not your responsibility to know who you marry.

See how not taking responsibility for your choices can even be dangerous? I honestly don't know how to make my point more clear, just as I don't know how to make you guys understand that I DO NOT approve of rape, in fact I consider it abhorrent. Yet I am willing to be that some of you think that I am ok with rape or something, you got that idea stuck in your heads, judgement has been passed and nothing I can say will probably change your minds.

The mindset of "how could I have prevented this" in victims is often incredibly damaging. It often leads to people absorbing the fault of someone else's wrongdoing which makes the emotional consequences even stronger and more damaging. It also makes it more difficult for the individual to connect to others, because that responsibility leads them to believe that they were the reason this happened, not because of someone else, which makes it difficult to move on. Because of that, they feel like if they make the same perceived mistakes (which are often just normal, reasonable human interactions), the same result will occur. In reality, domestic violence is a lot more complicated than that and there is often either little a person can do or difficult barriers stemming from the abuse which makes it incredibly difficult to leave.

What you are advocating is for victims to follow a crippling mindset which can amplify the emotional consequences of rape. There is such a fine line between "taking responsibility" and blaming yourself (some may even say their is no line) that it is virtually impossible to distinguish between in someone who has just experienced such strong emotional trauma.

If you think that you are helping victims of marital rape (which would be a stretch given the amount of times you've said or implied that they were stupid idiots), you are wrong.



I was born out of wedlock and spent the overwhelming majority of my childhood without a father but I'm just fine and the same goes for my younger sister. Just because my family isn't like your family doesn't mean my family is wrong



[redacted] not going to offend anyone here. 



Around the Network
sundin13 said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:

Bold: This is (partially) true if you're talking about the 'modern' marriage.

In the past marriage was not really about love. It was a almost unbreakable contract recognized by state/church/class/just important people which would bind two sexes together and see the continuation of the society. For the most part it was simple enough: A man provided resources and authority and the women provided fertility and sex.

When you commited to this contract, it was a very big deal for all parties. It was one of the most important contract you could enter with far-reaching consequences for both sexes which could last untill death. Under that understanding it can build very strong relationships where business, heritage, blood and even love are mixed in a mutual beneficial contract for both. One of the best free trade deals around  untill .gov got in on the game

As a literal contract it means indeed nothing as all social constructs do. But in the context of the past and social cohesion, it did mean a lot. In the current times it's value is almost zero i quess.

I would not marry myself at this point. As a man there is nothing to gain in marriage.

Then I suppose the question becomes, would you argue in support of regression to that state? And that is a long regression. Even in my grandparent's time, marriage developed from love and not the other way around. People certainly fell into marriage more easily (and stayed in it more easily), but if you wish to support the merits of an almost lottery based marriage system, I don't think many people would support you on that...

No i would not. I'm not saying that marriage shouldn't or cannot be about love nor do i advocate any lottery system.

I believe in real marriage freedom as in general freedom for a person. My ideal would that marriage once again becomes a enforceable personal contract without any goverment/religious influence where people can decide on transparent reasons like money, seks, childeren or love. Whatever they chose.

A enforceable contract between two adults and only them.



In the wilderness we go alone with our new knowledge and strength.

Ka-pi96 said:
EnricoPallazzo said:

being married in a church and signing some papers to the government yes maybe is unnatural, but a man and a woman raising their kids for me it is whats its natural, normal and important to the development of society.

You don't need marriage for a man and woman to raise their kids together though.

Yep, agree!



Can't believe people are having babies without signing a government contract..



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

contestgamer said:
the-pi-guy said:

What do you think the goal of feminism is?

The bold is funny, because it has a long history of doing just that.  

It empowered women, then marginalized men. Problem with all these social movements is that once equality is achieved you still have billions of dollars and millions of people invested in them, so they keep having to move the needle, which in the case of feminism is at the expense of men. Now we need a quota of Oscar awards for women and minorities, because there's really nothing worthwhile left to fight for. Feminism is really just the equivalent of corporate lobbyists for women. 

"which in the case of feminism is at the expense of men."

and now women ironically



RolStoppable said:
CrazyGamer2017 said:

Really? You go out for a walk and you are supposed to know that you are going to get stabbed?

On the other side, you marry someone you don't know well enough, yet you assume he's going to be perfect and nothing bad could possibly comes out of him?

Assuming other people are dangerous is BASIC STUFF, it's everywhere. Why do you think my name is crazygamer and not my real name? why do you think my face, address, family names, place of work etc... do not appear on this forum? Why do you think YOUR name, address etc... do not appear in the forum? Why is the front door of your house locked when you are not home, possibly locked too when you are home? Because you DO ASSUME there is danger with other human beings and if you don't assume, and let your door open all day long or give all your info online and sooner or later something bad happens, you are not going to consider your MISTAKE as exactly that?

Same thing here, don't leave your door open, don't give your info online and if you do then take responsibility. NOT for the crime someone could commit against you but for the lack of good judgement of doing those things.

You specifically described your scenario as a dangerous part of town, i.e. incidents like robbery or stabbings have a realistic chance to occur during night time. On the other hand, marriages are made with no visible or known signs that rape is a realistic possibility, especially because marriage is usually a decision that is made after a high level of trust has been built. As such, the two scenarios are not equal at all, hence why your analogy falls flat on its face.

All the analogies you use in your most recent post fall into the same category as "dangerous part of town", so they aren't any good either.

"incidents like robbery or stabbings have a realistic chance to occur during night time. On the other hand, marriages are made with no visible or known signs that rape is a realistic possibility"

but is that true? is it not a widely held belief that we live in a rape culture?

https://everydayfeminism.com/2014/03/examples-of-rape-culture/

http://www.kcrg.com/content/news/People-March-Against-Rape-Culture-in-Iowa-City-479060463.html

 

and that rape culture is perpetuated through men

http://theconversation.com/what-rape-culture-says-about-masculinity-85513

https://www.wnycstudios.org/story/seeing-sexual-harassment-and-violence-mens-issue/