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Forums - General Discussion - 78 year old arrested for murder of burglar, *Update: Cleared of all charge but still faces strife,

 

78 year olds self defence stabbing was

Justified. 26 74.29%
 
Unjustified. 3 8.57%
 
Unsure. 6 17.14%
 
Comments, other, me no give a shit... 0 0%
 
Total:35
Zkuq on 06 April 2018

It sounds like this particular kill was justified, but it never hurts to investigate, and burglary should definitely not be an automatic reason to kill.



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contestgamer on 06 April 2018
SecondWar said:
contestgamer said:

 Mistakes will always happen but with cloud storage cameras etc its less likely criminals will be able to sabotage in the future. If a case is cut and dry and we have forensic or video evidence of crime then we should go to the max punishment possible in public sphere and do it quickly. I believe it would be a deterrent. And again if I'm proven wrong then we change the system but the current one is not effective so I believe we should at least test alternatives like the Philippines are doing and get data.

For me at least, your arguement lost all credibility when you cited the vigilante justice system of Duterte's Philippines. That is not justice, that's a mob under a different name.

It is leading to a reduction of crime.



Zkuq on 06 April 2018
John2290 said:
Zkuq said:
It sounds like this particular kill was justified, but it never hurts to investigate, and burglary should definitely not be an automatic reason to kill.

Yes but he was backed into his Kitchen at the point of a screwdriver, he had proper reason to believe he was going to be harmed.

Yeah, like I said: It sounds like this particular kill was justified. Of course it also depends on how threatened he was. If he was backed into his kitchen but not threatened beyond that and he attacked after being backed up there despite not being threatened further, killing the burglar seems more than anyone should be allowed to get away with. Of course I don't know the details, but that's one example of a situation where he could probably be found guilty and at least I couldn't really argue about it.



Aeolus451 on 06 April 2018

People anywhere should have the right to defend their home from home invasions. You don't know if the person breaking in wants to rape, murder or steal everything. The cops can figure out the intentions after they take 'em out of your house in a body bag.



Azuren on 06 April 2018
contestgamer said:
VGPolyglot said:

Not really, the United States has the highest incarceration rate in the world along with capital punishment. I know this is a UK article but I believe you're talking more broadly.

Incarceration isn't a large deterrent. In the philipines they kill you for drug and theft crimes and it's working, a lot of the data is showing that. So no, I'm not satisfied with locking people up for life, in fact I consider that immoral and to be akin to torture. It's a human zoo and I'm against zoo's for animals too. I'm for quick, and severe forms of punishments that will result in the desired effect - deterring the criminal and others from doing what they did again. I guarantee that if you cut the hands off shoplifters in public a LOT less young people would casually try it. They can go back to living their lives quickly with a lesson learned in 1 hour they wouldn't gain from 2 years in prison.  I'm for data though, so if the data came in and showed it to be ineffective then I wouldnt stick with it for the sake of it. but it should be tested.

Not interested in Sharia Law, so I'm going to have to disagree with you on that. Cutting off hands for petty theft isn't crime and punishment, it's barbarism.

Last edited by Azuren - on 06 April 2018

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SecondWar on 06 April 2018
shikamaru317 said:
Glad he was cleared of charges, you should always have the right to defend yourself in your own home.

The title is misleading - he was not 'cleared of all charges', he was held under suspicion but released without charge.

To be charged the police need evidence that you committed a crime.



SecondWar on 06 April 2018
contestgamer said:
SecondWar said:

For me at least, your arguement lost all credibility when you cited the vigilante justice system of Duterte's Philippines. That is not justice, that's a mob under a different name.

It is leading to a reduction of crime.

No, it's leading to a huge number of murders by mob justice.

Without due process it's basically another form of gang violence. In arbuement, you can just say the other guy is a drug dealer even if he's not so people look the other way if you kill him.



Mr Puggsly on 06 April 2018
palou said:

I think, it would require a reasonable threat to his life to justify the kill - depending on the details of what happened, I do believe that this should be illegal. Not a murder charge, but a charge nonetheless - perhaps a fine would do. A burglar is highly unlikely to attempt to kill/physically harm a cooperative victim, since that's not in his interest - if nothing more than as a security measure for the homeowner himself, engaging in fights against the thief should be discouraged.

 

"One suspect, armed with a screwdriver, forced the elderly man into his kitchen when he discovered them inside his home in the Hither Green area, while the other suspect went upstairs, the force added. 

A struggle ensued between the homeowner and one of the men"

I really hope you're speaking as someone that didn't read the article. If this is the story, then its self defense.



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palou on 06 April 2018
Mr Puggsly said:
palou said:

I think, it would require a reasonable threat to his life to justify the kill - depending on the details of what happened, I do believe that this should be illegal. Not a murder charge, but a charge nonetheless - perhaps a fine would do. A burglar is highly unlikely to attempt to kill/physically harm a cooperative victim, since that's not in his interest - if nothing more than as a security measure for the homeowner himself, engaging in fights against the thief should be discouraged.

 

"One suspect, armed with a screwdriver, forced the elderly man into his kitchen when he discovered them inside his home in the Hither Green area, while the other suspect went upstairs, the force added. 

A struggle ensued between the homeowner and one of the men"

I really hope you're speaking as someone that didn't read the article. If this is the story, then its self defense.

I speak of law not as a form of punishment, here, but rather as a deterrent for poor choices. Just as you need to deter the burglar from entering the home, you also need to deter the homeowner from engaging in the incredibly dangerous decision of fighting back against the burglar. In terms of culpability, no, I don't think that the homeowner did anything *bad* by defending himself when he was very justifiably frightened.



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Mr Puggsly on 06 April 2018
palou said:
Mr Puggsly said:

 

"One suspect, armed with a screwdriver, forced the elderly man into his kitchen when he discovered them inside his home in the Hither Green area, while the other suspect went upstairs, the force added. 

A struggle ensued between the homeowner and one of the men"

I really hope you're speaking as someone that didn't read the article. If this is the story, then its self defense.

I speak of law not as a form of punishment, here, but rather as a deterrent for poor choices. Just as you need to deter the burglar from entering the home, you also need to deter the homeowner from engaging in the incredibly dangerous decision of fighting back against the burglar. In terms of culpability, no, I don't think that the homeowner did anything *bad* by defending himself when he was very justifiably frightened.

You aren't necessarily concerned about your legal rights when somebody breaks into your home and is threatening you with a weapon. At that point you're concerned with your life and perhaps protecting your home.

Essentially, you're asking people to go against their natural instincts by doing nothing and potentially waiting to be murdered.



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