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Forums - Politics Discussion - The sjw review by eurogamer on Kingdom Come: Deliverance

FloatingWaffles said:
monocle_layton said:
Almost like their influence is over exaggerated and only an issue because we keep mentioning them...

How much longer are we actually gonna live in the SJW world? Fucks sake people grow a pair of balls and realize they’re not some superior beings. They’re idiots like any of the other idiots. Just stop giving them the attention they fucking want and maybe we won’t have to keep complaining about these whiny people

I agree that they're people who act like idiots and often think they have power/influence when they really don't and should be ignored, but the problem is there are a lot of spineless companies/businesses who will give into these people's apparent complaints (AKA complaining about dumb shit) because they shit themselves at the sight of any potential 'controversy', and I put controversy in quotations because there is no real controversy it's just a small minority of people complaining about shit they don't like, but yet these companies still give in anyway since they're apparently too dumb or scared to see that.

Then when they give in, it makes those people feel more empowered that if they keep complaining about dumb shit that they can eventually get their way so they keep doing it. Just look at the recent banning of grid girls from F1 or whatever, it only took some feminists complaining for them to immediately get scared and get rid of them, even though the women who were grid girls voted against it since they were fine with their jobs. 

It surprises me that these companies do not realize that the minority of people complaining is obviously not part of the target audience.



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Aura7541 said:
FloatingWaffles said:

I agree that they're people who act like idiots and often think they have power/influence when they really don't and should be ignored, but the problem is there are a lot of spineless companies/businesses who will give into these people's apparent complaints (AKA complaining about dumb shit) because they shit themselves at the sight of any potential 'controversy', and I put controversy in quotations because there is no real controversy it's just a small minority of people complaining about shit they don't like, but yet these companies still give in anyway since they're apparently too dumb or scared to see that.

Then when they give in, it makes those people feel more empowered that if they keep complaining about dumb shit that they can eventually get their way so they keep doing it. Just look at the recent banning of grid girls from F1 or whatever, it only took some feminists complaining for them to immediately get scared and get rid of them, even though the women who were grid girls voted against it since they were fine with their jobs. 

It surprises me that these companies do not realize that the minority of people complaining is obviously not part of the target audience.

Worse yet is when they do it time and time again and are met with less and less revenue while trying to please the non-target audience.

Like hiring Sarkeesian as adviser even when she said she have no interest in gaming, just to bash it.

And also in Brazil (perhaps this is already common overseas) like 90% of the ads are PC oriented and seem like the manager decided to push his own agenda instead of the company product.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Leadified said:
DonFerrari said:

You have a good point.

Also since theories of human origin is from Africa and we all have DNA from there and we don't have pictures from prior to 1900 I demand that all games from before 1900 have only black people, since you can't prove everyone wasn't dark skinned =]

 

And also since Portuguese used slaves and there is one drawing of a dark skinned samurai, I think all samurai games Nioh and Tsushijima included need some black main player.

The protagonist of NiOh is a blonde Irishman whereas the historical figure he's based on was a brown haired Englishman from Kent. If they're willing to take liberties such as those, then they could do pretty much whatever they want to including making a black samurai.

Liberties? Do whatever they wanted? There was an actual black samurai freed and made a samurai by that infamous lord. That's just a fantasy game that wasn't trying to be historically accurate or anything.



Mnementh said:
SuperNova said:

And I'm not debating that. In fact I said, it's their choice, it's fine.

I just pointed out that if diversity was important to this dev they could have kept the time period, european setting and historic accuracy while still having diverse characters.  'Historic accuracy' is not the right argument here. It's 'We didn't want to.' And that's fine.

That's correct. They had another intention, they wanted to depict the area they live in in a historical interesting time. And their research about that came up with not much diversity (they include people from neighbouring countries though and historically to be expected people from farther away).

Yes, You summed it up better than perhaps I could.

DonFerrari said:
SuperNova said:

Since you ignored my last reply to you, this is the last one I'm going to give you.

They would not have had to force anything. The historical context is there, they would just have to set their game accordingly. They didn't. Because it wasn't a priority. Those points arent really up to debate.

Games don't just 'happen'. Like you said yourself, there's concious decision making behind all of this. They made the game they wanted to make.

You're failing to see that there's tangible proof that these people existed in Europe at the time. Hence why they could be included in a 'historically accurate' game about the period. By setting it in an area that had very little contact to outside influences, the devs made a concious decision. Maybe they just really wanted to set it there, because they like the area. That does not make them racist or anything, but it does mean that the aerial setting of their game was more important to them than having diversity. See? Decision making.

Pretending like there's anything else going on here is just dishonest and would probably also make for a bad game.  They have every right to make this decision. There's no need to hide behind a flimsy argument.

Lastly, we tell stories about extraordinary people because they are interesting. That's how most of all storytelling works, especially hero stories. A game can only benefit from having an interesting cast of characters that face unique challenges.

I haven't ignored any post, you may not have seem the reply to you or I may not have seem your post, if that was the case I'm sorry.

The only thing else happening is you judging their intention without knowing better because "if they really wanted they could have chosen that one story that would have a female protagonist and a lot of important black NPCs" as if their decision was made in a way to prevent black people from appearing on the game.

And I don't buy any shenanigan that for the character to be extraordinary they need any specific gender or race.

Well my direct reply to you was like two posts above the post you decided to quote, but if you didin't see it that's fine.

I'm not judging their intentions. I know nothing of their intentions. I said as much in my post. I guessed at their intentions when I said: 'Maybe they just really wanted to set it there, because they like the area'. 

Other than that I judged their priorities, because they are clearly visible in the end product. If their priorities lay diffrently, the end product would look diffrent. Simple cause and effect.

I also never said they did anything to conciously prevent any diversity, just that they also didn't make a concious effort to include it because other stuff evidently was more important to them. And then I said that they also have NO OBLIGATION to make an effort to include diversity and that it doesn't mean that they are racist that they didn't.

And no obviously characters dont NEED to be any specific ethnicity of gender to be interesting and I never said they had to be. Since we were talking about a historic context I pointed out that historic outliers tend to be interesting.

At this point I'm really not sure why you keep arguing with me for pointing out the obvious, while you keep interpreting things into my posts that I never said. Please stop straight up making stuff up about my posts.



Aeolus451 said:
Leadified said:

The protagonist of NiOh is a blonde Irishman whereas the historical figure he's based on was a brown haired Englishman from Kent. If they're willing to take liberties such as those, then they could do pretty much whatever they want to including making a black samurai.

Liberties? Do whatever they wanted? There was an actual black samurai freed and made a samurai by that infamous lord. That's just a fantasy game that wasn't trying to be historically accurate or anything.

Uh yeah, thanks for proving my point, I guess.



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Leadified said:
Aeolus451 said:

Liberties? Do whatever they wanted? There was an actual black samurai freed and made a samurai by that infamous lord. That's just a fantasy game that wasn't trying to be historically accurate or anything.

Uh yeah, thanks for proving my point, I guess.

Perhaps in your head or something. Nioh's characters were based on actual people so they didn't take the kind of liberties that you suggested.

KCD is supposed to be historically accurate from the ground up. 



Aeolus451 said:
Leadified said:

Uh yeah, thanks for proving my point, I guess.

Perhaps in your head or something. Nioh's characters were based on actual people so they didn't take the kind of liberties that you suggested.

KCD is supposed to be historically accurate from the ground up. 

Are you alright, lol? You quoted my post where I compared NiOh's William to the real William Adams, no where did I mention KCD.



Leadified said:
Aeolus451 said:

Perhaps in your head or something. Nioh's characters were based on actual people so they didn't take the kind of liberties that you suggested.

KCD is supposed to be historically accurate from the ground up. 

Are you alright, lol? You quoted my post where I compared NiOh's William to the real William Adams, no where did I mention KCD.

On KCD, I said that to cover my bases in case someone tries to use my wording as a hammer later. It is also the topic.



Aeolus451 said:
Leadified said:

Are you alright, lol? You quoted my post where I compared NiOh's William to the real William Adams, no where did I mention KCD.

On KCD, I said that to cover my bases in case someone tries to use my wording as a hammer later. It is also the topic.

Well ok then.



SuperNova said:
Mnementh said:

That's correct. They had another intention, they wanted to depict the area they live in in a historical interesting time. And their research about that came up with not much diversity (they include people from neighbouring countries though and historically to be expected people from farther away).

Yes, You summed it up better than perhaps I could.

DonFerrari said:

I haven't ignored any post, you may not have seem the reply to you or I may not have seem your post, if that was the case I'm sorry.

The only thing else happening is you judging their intention without knowing better because "if they really wanted they could have chosen that one story that would have a female protagonist and a lot of important black NPCs" as if their decision was made in a way to prevent black people from appearing on the game.

And I don't buy any shenanigan that for the character to be extraordinary they need any specific gender or race.

Well my direct reply to you was like two posts above the post you decided to quote, but if you didin't see it that's fine.

I'm not judging their intentions. I know nothing of their intentions. I said as much in my post. I guessed at their intentions when I said: 'Maybe they just really wanted to set it there, because they like the area'. 

Other than that I judged their priorities, because they are clearly visible in the end product. If their priorities lay diffrently, the end product would look diffrent. Simple cause and effect.

I also never said they did anything to conciously prevent any diversity, just that they also didn't make a concious effort to include it because other stuff evidently was more important to them. And then I said that they also have NO OBLIGATION to make an effort to include diversity and that it doesn't mean that they are racist that they didn't.

And no obviously characters dont NEED to be any specific ethnicity of gender to be interesting and I never said they had to be. Since we were talking about a historic context I pointed out that historic outliers tend to be interesting.

At this point I'm really not sure why you keep arguing with me for pointing out the obvious, while you keep interpreting things into my posts that I never said. Please stop straight up making stuff up about my posts.

Their priority was to tell a story about the place they are from not to pick up an agenda about diversity on games.

Ok so to make sense of your first post, why should a dev consider a priority to tell a story about a very specific occasion that there were black people on medieval europe increasing diversity on the cast?

Leadified said:
Aeolus451 said:

Perhaps in your head or something. Nioh's characters were based on actual people so they didn't take the kind of liberties that you suggested.

KCD is supposed to be historically accurate from the ground up. 

Are you alright, lol? You quoted my post where I compared NiOh's William to the real William Adams, no where did I mention KCD.

On your post you tried to say that since NiOh had someone based on RL didn't had the same ethinic then they should also use this freedom to make a black character on the Kingdom and still call it accurate.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994