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McDonaldsGuy said:
Goatseye said:

That was before we knew about Russia were preparing to weaponize fake news to discredit democratic institutions in the US.
Before using Wikileaks was used as an arm of the GRU to mine US relationship with their allies.
Before Magnistky Act was passed to squeeze Putin's pals money laundering schemes.

Just so you know, Obama didn't want to sign the Magnistky Act and when he did (2 years later) he threw a hissy fit.

Clinton literally wrote an OpEd on why signing it was a bad idea.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/05/15/the-magnitsky-flip-flop/

I bet you had no idea about any of that. It's the same with Iraq WMDs - you're being lied to. When will you wake the hell up?

Where is the proof Russia hacked the DNC? Robert Mueller said Iraq had WMDs:

 

The last administration wanted to partner with Russia economically because it was the second most promising economy in the BRIC after China. Everyone in America wanted that. The Magnitsky case threw all of this away, especially because EU and US saw what was going on in Ukraine. It (Magnitsky case) wasn't your regular internal corruption; the tentacles of the likes of especially Mogilevich, was far reaching into EU and US with political ramifications in the mix.

WMDs were fabricated by Bush admin. Trump connection with Russia was tipped off by British, German, Australian, Dutch and French intelligence. All about different subjects and different times. Must be a coincidence. 



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Goatseye said:
AsGryffynn said:

After the US already weaponized them by using anti communist propaganda against an ordoliberal government in Guatemala? Or perhaps after pressing Bolivia not to elect Evo? 

Also, the US had discredited itself when you invaded Granada under the pretext of being a security threat. Even lose cannon Margaret Thatcher chewed you out for that one. 

It's time like this I wish the Supreme Court outlawed the Republican and Democratic party from the next elections... 

Your whole argument is non sequitur and actually validates the fight of Americans against foreign intervention on political affairs. 
Try again...

OK, so let's say the Russian government did get involved. What do we do about it, go to war with a nuclear-powered nation?



Goatseye said:

The last administration wanted to partner with Russia economically because it was the second most promising economy in the BRIC after China. Everyone in America wanted that. The Magnitsky case threw all of this away, especially because EU and US saw what was going on in Ukraine. It (Magnitsky case) wasn't your regular internal corruption; the tentacles of the likes of especially Mogilevich, was far reaching into EU and US with political ramifications in the mix.

WMDs were fabricated by Bush admin. Trump connection with Russia was tipped off by British, German, Australian, Dutch and French intelligence. All about different subjects and different times. Must be a coincidence. 

What if I were to tell you Clinton also said Saddam had WMDs? Would you believe me?



McDonaldsGuy said:
Goatseye said:

The last administration wanted to partner with Russia economically because it was the second most promising economy in the BRIC after China. Everyone in America wanted that. The Magnitsky case threw all of this away, especially because EU and US saw what was going on in Ukraine. It (Magnitsky case) wasn't your regular internal corruption; the tentacles of the likes of especially Mogilevich, was far reaching into EU and US with political ramifications in the mix.

WMDs were fabricated by Bush admin. Trump connection with Russia was tipped off by British, German, Australian, Dutch and French intelligence. All about different subjects and different times. Must be a coincidence. 

What if I were to tell you Clinton also said Saddam had WMDs? Would you believe me?

What if I told you that Clowns are not creepy?



VGPolyglot said:
Goatseye said:

Your whole argument is non sequitur and actually validates the fight of Americans against foreign intervention on political affairs. 
Try again...

OK, so let's say the Russian government did get involved. What do we do about it, go to war with a nuclear-powered nation?

Don't be a war monger. The sanctions work properly. It rattles the cage of old Mishka, turned carnivore.



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Puppyroach said:
bigjon said:
the entire Russia farce was conjured by the Obama administration as excuse to illegally spy on a political opponent. When Trump won they kept it going because they had to. Their only way out was to get rid of Trump before they were exposed for their treason.

What we are seeing now is their failure to get rid of Trump before the evidence of their crimes is starting to emerge. There has been an insane amount of high level DOJ and FBI employees getting "resigned" in the past few weeks.

Swamp draining I guess.

And your explanation for Trump firing Comey because, according to Trump himself, of the Russia investigation and being extremely critical of Mueller is because.... he is innocent? =)

Mueller was in on it from the beginning. Rosenstien convinced Sessions to recuse himself then appointed Mueller. Now it is coming out that Rosenstein had a hand in the illegal surveillance of the Trump campaign (He signed several of the bogus FISA request). 

They knew they had nothing on Russia, so Rosenstein recommended Comey be fired and then appointed Mueller to investigate Trump's obstruction of justice he committed by firing Comey. How fucked up is that. 



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Kyle Kulinski: Why is it a big deal if Russia invades a NATO country and we do nothing about it? We shouldn't be taking that country into NATO anyway so it's not worth it to defend them. Why is it a big deal if Russia hacks government secrets and selectively leaks what helps their interests and we do nothing about it? The public has a right to know this information so it's not a big deal who is leaking things.

I mean, I can sort of understand the viewpoint of someone who denies that these things happened or might happen. But to say it happened but it's not a problem ... I don't see how that can be anything other than dangerously naive. If NATO is too big, that's not a problem we should solve by abandoning treaty obligations. If leaked information is worth having in an era of massive overclassification and oversurveillance, that doesn't mean we shouldn't care who is hacking into our government.



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I still want to know from the "Trump stole the election via collusion with Russia" conspiracy mongers why Russia was brushed off as a non-factor during most of the Obama administration (mainly from '09-'12 when Hillary Clinton was SoS and was BFFs with Russia) and yet now they have magically become our #1 geopolitical threat after Hillary blew the election?

How's that "reset button" working out for you guys?

"The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back!" - President Barack Obama's quip to candidate Mitt Romney during one of the 2012 election debates after Romney argued that Russia was one of if not THE biggest threats to our national security interests.  Obama in reply had to dig up Al Qaeda as the real boogeyman, despite the fact that OBL had been dead for over a year, AQ was a disjointed mess, and the post-Arab Spring Middle East had been thrown into chaos with power vacuums in failed states like Libya (which Obama helped destabilize) being filled by the likes of ISIS.

“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure. https://www.snopes.com/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

Gee, imagine if Trump was caught on a hot mic prior to the election talking to Putin or some other high ranking official from Russia promising "more flexibility" after the election, presuming he would emerge as the winner.

Last edited by NightDragon83 - on 13 February 2018

On 2/24/13, MB1025 said:
You know I was always wondering why no one ever used the dollar sign for $ony, but then I realized they have no money so it would be pointless.

bigjon said:
Puppyroach said:

And your explanation for Trump firing Comey because, according to Trump himself, of the Russia investigation and being extremely critical of Mueller is because.... he is innocent? =)

Mueller was in on it from the beginning. Rosenstien convinced Sessions to recuse himself then appointed Mueller. Now it is coming out that Rosenstein had a hand in the illegal surveillance of the Trump campaign (He signed several of the bogus FISA request). 

They knew they had nothing on Russia, so Rosenstein recommended Comey be fired and then appointed Mueller to investigate Trump's obstruction of justice he committed by firing Comey. How fucked up is that. 

So what you are saying is that Sessions and Trump are complete morons that are easily manipulated? And why did Trump claim Rosenstein had nothing to do with the firing of Comey, that it was all Trumps decision? The conspiracy was so advanced that they could literally guide Trump´s brain to do their bidding? =)

And no, there hasn´t been any illegal surveillance of the Trump campaign. If you are referring to the GOP Fisa memo, it revolves around Carter Page, not Trump.



NightDragon83 said:

I still want to know from the "Trump stole the election via collusion with Russia" conspiracy mongers why Russia was brushed off as a non-factor during most of the Obama administration (mainly from '09-'12 when Hillary Clinton was SoS and was BFFs with Russia) and yet now they have magically become our #1 geopolitical threat after Hillary blew the election?

How's that "reset button" working out for you guys?

"The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back!" - President Barack Obama's quip to candidate Mitt Romney during the 2012 election debate.

“This is my last election … After my election I have more flexibility,” Obama said, expressing confidence that he would win a second term. “I will transmit this information to Vladimir,” said Medvedev, Putin’s protégé and long considered number two in Moscow’s power structure. https://www.snopes.com/obama-more-flexibility-russia/

Gee, imagine if Trump was caught on a hot mic prior to the election talking to Putin or some other high ranking official from Russia promising "more flexibility" after the election, presuming he would emerge as the winner.

You should get your history description correct: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/barack-obama-threatens-russia-with-sanctions-after-crimea-referendum-9196018.html