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Forums - Gaming Discussion - How long until a ps4 level $400 hybrid is possible?

d21lewis said:

The way technology advances, I'd say a couple of years. Portable consoles have more or less always been a gen or so behind. The PS4 has been around since 2013.

Switch: PS3/360 power levels

3DS: GameCube/PS2/Xbox 

DS: N64/PS1

GBA: SNES/Genesis

Gameboy/Gameboy Color: NES/Master System

It shouldn't be much longer, now.

Factually wrong.



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RolStoppable said:
JRPGfan said:

think it was typical draw power.

basically these small chips are limited in how much power they can draw, which limits how fast they are.

Wouldn't that mean that your previous claim of such a device being possible today is nonsense?

Huh? The Switch is a hybrid device, and when docked it uses like 20-25watts too.
At those power ranges today (15-25w), AMD actually does have a chip that can do ~1.66 Tflops (not quite 1.84) but close.

At docked *handheld mode it would like the switch, need to run games at lower resolutions (and thus use less power).

10nm isnt far away, a shrink of a 2700U chip, for amd could probably make a "switch" version of a PS4 possible today.

Last edited by JRPGfan - on 25 January 2018

Depends on how much money you wanna lose



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5 years at least and it still would very expensive.



haxxiy said:
Assuming it is made by TSMC and Nvidia, and it needs to be 6 times faster than the Switch, then:
10 nm TSMC = 2x shrink, available this year already
7 nm TSMC = 2.8x shrink, 2019-2020
5 nm TSMC = 4x shrink, maybe 2021?
3.5 nm TSMC = 8x shrink, maybe 2023-2024, coincidentally also TSMC's last planned node shrink.
Add one or two years since brand-new nodes are rarely used for consoles, but accounting for more efficient GPU architectures, I'd say between 5-8 years.
Let the too optimistic be reminded, of course, that the Tegra X1 once had the hype it could maybe match current consoles, and look how it turned out.

The performance gain is more than linear when the node shrinks. On TDP parity you have 2 kind of gains. You can fit more transistors in the same area and since operating temperatures are lower you can increase clock speed. Maybe I'm a bit too optimistic but I think a performance between the OG XB1 and OG PS4 (28nm designs) could be potentially achieved on a 7nm chip. 



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JRPGfan said:
RolStoppable said:

Wouldn't that mean that your previous claim of such a device being possible today is nonsense?

Huh? The Switch is a hybrid device, and when docked it uses like 20-25watts too.
At those power ranges today (15-25w), AMD actually does have a chip that can do ~1.66 Tflops (not quite 1.84) but close.

At docked *handheld mode it would like the switch, need to run games at lower resolutions (and thus use less power).

10nm isnt far away, a shrink of a 2700U chip, for amd could probably make a "switch" version of a PS4 possible today.

I wouldn't pay much attention to what AMD is claiming - go to GFX Bench and look up 2700u vs 7850 (which is around PS4's performance) - it's more than 2x slower.

AMD will get there eventually, but not just yet - and they need to have SoC that is capable of running PS4 games as they are, not with lower res/settings like with Switch where games are made from the start for both modes.



All games need to be installed for a 5400rpm harddrive and the ps4 uses GDDR5 memory not to mention the jaquar cores will never be in a portable ps4 so they would need to use a new cpu technology like ryzen and put in the effort to make it all compatible, seems like a significant effort.




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d21lewis said:

The way technology advances, I'd say a couple of years. Portable consoles have more or less always been a gen or so behind. The PS4 has been around since 2013.

Switch: PS3/360 power levels

3DS: GameCube/PS2/Xbox 

DS: N64/PS1

GBA: SNES/Genesis

Gameboy/Gameboy Color: NES/Master System

It shouldn't be much longer, now.

This post is so wrong. Switch is more powerful than Wii U which was already a bit more powerful than PS3/360. Switch is not only a good deal more powerful but uses modern architecture even more modern than PS4. 3DS is inbetweenPS2 and Gamecube but more modern shaders.  GBA was more powerful than SNES and why there was a good amount of 3D games on the system. Game Gear was mower powerful than Game Boy and was essentially a portable SMS. Game Boy Color did not have the same power.  As for the OP. A few years. Xavier is a few years off being ready for a portable system for power consumption heat and battery life. By the time Switch 2 launches in maybe 2022-3



Kristof81 said:

I'm pretty sure this will be possible using Tegra Xavier, scheduled for Q1 2018, so in few months (probably). With 512 cuda cores we're talking min GTX 750 performance, so very close to the base PS4, but without clocks, bandwidths etc it's hard to say.  I'm not sure about the cost though.

But would that be compatible with the ps4 library? 

Alkibiádēs said:
Weren't you convinced handheld gaming was dead before the Switch launched?

Dedicated handheld gaming yes. And I was proven right. Neither Sony or Nintendo are showing any signs of releasing a traditional dedicated handheld anymore. 

malistix1985 said:
All games need to be installed for a 5400rpm harddrive and the ps4 uses GDDR5 memory not to mention the jaquar cores will never be in a portable ps4 so they would need to use a new cpu technology like ryzen and put in the effort to make it all compatible, seems like a significant effort.

So the chances of getting a ps4 portable that plays all ps4 games is pretty much zero. 



SegataSanshiro said:
d21lewis said:

The way technology advances, I'd say a couple of years. Portable consoles have more or less always been a gen or so behind. The PS4 has been around since 2013.

Switch: PS3/360 power levels

3DS: GameCube/PS2/Xbox 

DS: N64/PS1

GBA: SNES/Genesis

Gameboy/Gameboy Color: NES/Master System

It shouldn't be much longer, now.

This post is so wrong. Switch is more powerful than Wii U which was already a bit more powerful than PS3/360. Switch is not only a good deal more powerful but uses modern architecture even more modern than PS4. 3DS is inbetweenPS2 and Gamecube but more modern shaders.  GBA was more powerful than SNES and why there was a good amount of 3D games on the system. Game Gear was mower powerful than Game Boy and was essentially a portable SMS. Game Boy Color did not have the same power.  As for the OP. A few years. Xavier is a few years off being ready for a portable system for power consumption heat and battery life. By the time Switch 2 launches in maybe 2022-3

There are games on PS3 graphically and technically more impressive then switch games so I don't see how you can say its above it.