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Forums - Gaming - How long until a ps4 level $400 hybrid is possible?

bowserthedog said:

The hard part will be making it so that it can run games from the PS4 library automatically or with small patches rather then having to port them.

It can be made to function similarly to the PS4 pro, except in the opposite direction. It may not be that much work to "port" games if it's architecture is effectively identical.



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Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Doom has better effects, while BF4 has larger more detailed enviornments, higher resolution, just more happening in general. Honestly, I didnt find Doom technically impressive but has nice assets and art direction.

 

The Switch has the likes of Skyrim, which shows it can do large environments.
You need to keep the comparisons as equal as possible. Apples to Apples and all that.

Mr Puggsly said:

Your thoughts on Ryse as a game are not important.

It is to me. And it may be to other forum users. You finding them unimportant is what truly is unimportant... Because I will state them anyway.
Making your whinging ultimately superfluous.

Mr Puggsly said:

The point is it was a great looking game for a year one game, still looks good. Also, not being 1080p is par for the course given the specs. Some of the dips were addressed in patches and were just in some spots. I bet a dynamic resolution would have really helped that game perform better and look sharper in low stress areas.

And I agreed that it was a great looking game with lots of dynamic effects, thanks to using CryEngine as a base. Did you miss that part or something?

Dynamic Resolution would have helped the anemic Xbox One hardware out a shit ton. The framerate dips also still exist, just to a lesser extent now. I do own the game.

 

Mr Puggsly said:

I think you mean Dead Rising 3, not 4. Not a great looking game per se, but I didnt mention it. I'm pointing out the 1st year games that do look good. I disagree though, Dead Rising 3 has higher quality assets than Doom on Switch, better textures, higher resolution, etc. Apples and oranges though.

Indeed. I did mean Dead Rising 3. My mistake, I'm only human. (Happy to admit my mistakes when I believe I am wrong though.)

Dead Rising 3 most certainly does not have higher quality assets than Doom on Switch.
The game looks like it pulled textures from a 6th gen console game, they are blurry, low resolution and terrible.
I do own the game, happy to take a few pictures if you want?

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, Im pointing out impressive looking year one games. Sunset Overdrive deserves a mention and it still looks good.

Sunset Overdrive looks as good as it does because of it's great Art Direction. It's going to be one of those games that is *always* going to look good and age well. Microsoft needs more exclusives like that.

Mr Puggsly said:

Heh, FH2 on 360 is not the same game per se. The 360 version was built on the 7th gen Forza engine, while the X1 version was built on the new engine used in Forza 5. Its actually kinda interesting, they basically rebuilt the game on the old engine instead porting the game.

You can port assets between game engines if you have the appropriate tools. Granted, sometimes it's better to build the assets from scratch.
But you are right.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Sony is an electronics giant, and they have a huge vertical monopoly.  This means that they own certain things that give them an advantage.  For example they own the Blue Ray format which means they can make anything with a Blue Ray drive cheaper than any other company.

Wrong.
Sony doesn't make all the components that go into a BD-Rom drive, they buy that from another company and then get yet another company to assemble them... And then yet another company to package... And probably another company to handle all the shipping logistics around the world.

Sony also doesn't own Blu-Ray anyway, it's owned by the Blu-ray Disc Association, Sony is just a member in conjunction with another 20~ other companies.
Other companies can also join and leave the consortium.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

It should not be surprising that large corporations like the big 3 console makers have resources, capital, that give them advantages.  Sony has the most advantages with hardware.  Microsoft has the most advantages with making software like an online service or operating system.  Nintendo has the most advantages with pairing unique hardware with their games.  This really just has to do with understanding how capitalism, and specifically capital, works.


Sony isn't a company that has the resources to sink Billions in new chip designs anymore, rather they buy it from 3rd party's like Qualcomm, Broadcom, AMD and so on. Which means Sony doesn't have any extra advantages over Microsoft in this aspect.

Microsoft has also been building peripherals for decades, they also design/build Laptops, Tablets, Consoles and specialized devices like the Surface Table, it would be rather ignorant to assume that Microsoft is incompetent at hardware.

But you are right, that all three companies do have specializations where they are better in some areas than others, but that doesn't conflate to meaning they are worst at something else.

Alkibiádēs said:

Microsoft's biggest weakness is their lack of presence in Japan and lack of partnerships with Japanese developers. That means they lose out on a ton of high quality games like Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Yakuza, Bayonetta, many jrpgs, etc.

I doubt Microsoft will ever gain a foothold in Japan. Japan seems to be fairly xenephobic and the games that the Xbox has doesn't really appeal to the Japanese demographic who tend to go nuts over something like Pokemon.

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, I said LA Noire demonstrates the superior CPU of Switch with higher resolutions and effects. But there is also frame drops, slow down, and I believe lowered draw distance. Whatever, its fine on Switch but it also shows potential limitations of the hardware.

It's also not using the full hardware feature set of the Switch. There is so much unused and modern efunctionality in that Tegra chip.
The Switch is only marginally more powerful at brute strength than the Xbox 360, where it's true advantage lays is thanks to a plethora of new technologies that have been added into modern chip designs which needs to have games leverage to make use of them.

For example... Texture compression. The Switch supports 3dc+. So it can compress Textures, Normal Maps, Light Maps, Shadow Maps and so on... If the game isn't built to take advantage of that feature, then it will use more Ram and consume more memory bandwidth.

Mr Puggsly said:

Skyrim's lead platform is clearly PC though.

Bullshit. Haha
Morrowind and Oblivion the lead platform was the PC.
Skyrim released without Direct X 10 and 11 support on PC... And opted for SM3.0 effects. It's hardware requirements at the time was so stupidly low it could run on a toaster.

Eventually, when consoles caught up to the PC, we got a "remastered" version of Skyrim which took advantage of a few extra features on PC... Essentially that version SHOULD have been the PC released version.

Rather, Skyrims lead platform was the Xbox 360 and the visual effects support that.

Heh, I wasnt doubt Switch has the ability to do large scale games.

Uh huh... We were discussing games for technical aspects, Ryse is technically impressive. I'm avoiding tangents.

I think numerous X1 games will age well. Not just SO.

Right, games designed to actually utilize Switch hardware is gonna look and perform better. Also explains why Nintendo games look exceptional.

I believe developers sometimes opt for low spec requirements so more people can play them. I dont believe its a coincidence some of the most popular PC games have low requirements. Diablo III was made for low end machines as well, even lower than Skyrim.

I believe Skyrim was designed scale easily to consoles and work well on dated PCs.



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Miyamotoo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

LA Noire appears to be more technically demanding in different ways than Skyrim. I mean LA Noire has busy cities with cars and people. Skyrim's lead platform is clearly PC though.

Again, the improvments on 7th gen arent anything like 8th gen. Because 1st year games on 8th gen still look comprable to new stuff. Frankly, same goes for Wii and Wii U, the graphics early on were much like the entire gen. I dont anticipate big imrpovments on Switch compared to what we're seeing now. Thats my prediction, but maybe 3rd parties will do a little better at making their releases more polished.

You said it, its demanding in difrent ways, same could be said for Skyrim compared to La Noire, LA Noire has busy cities with cars and people but Skyrim has huge ass world with wildlife, villages, towns, NPCs... But fact is that Skyrim was designed to be multi platform game on first place (including PC and Switch has similar PC architecture), that isnt case with La Noire.

You basicly ignored what I wrote, again: you keep comparing Switch 1st year with best looking 360 games (try comparing Switch 1st year games with 360 1st year games), fact is that with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games in any case.

I dont feel Skyrim has quite as much happening on screen at once in most cases. But whatever, it seems more care is going into the Skyrim port so it should be impressive and a better reflection of what the hardware can do.

I'm not ignoring what you wrote, I'm saying the massive visual disparity we saw on 360 over time wont happen on Switch. We havent seen that on 8th gen either.



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Mr Puggsly said:

I believe developers sometimes opt for low spec requirements so more people can play them. I dont believe its a coincidence some of the most popular PC games have low requirements. Diablo III was made for low end machines as well, even lower than Skyrim.

I believe Skyrim was designed scale easily to consoles and work well on dated PCs.

Diablo 3 had a different design philosophy.
Like all Blizzard games... They push art and not fidelity... It's a similar philosophy that Nintendo pushes, thus making the comparison between Diablo 3 and Skyrim silly. Apples to Apples and all that.

Supporting low-spec requirements is fine. Many effects can be turned down or completely turned off, like Tessellation, HBAO and so on.
But Skyrim released in 2011, AMD already had 5 GPU generations on the market that exceeded the SM3.0 specification... And was about to release Graphics Core Next in a year or two.
But do you know what meets the SM3.0 specification? The Xbox 360.

If Bethesda wanted Skyrim to scale well, they would have implemented newer PC technology to begin with, The remaster/enhanced edition would have been the initial/default release on PC as it at-least supports some modern techniques that had become standard for half a decade on the PC prior to the games release.

With that though, maybe if Bethesda wasn't peddling the same Net Immerse engine over the past 15+ years, they might have been able to provide a better presentation. (Especially in regards to fur/hair.).

Skyrim's lead development platform was certainly the Xbox 360, the game and the game engine was optimized with that hardware specifically in mind... The graphics techniques speaks volumes there as the PC version didn't have PC graphics features.
I mean shit, Bethesda didn't even bother to make the User-Interface PC friendly, it was console controller optimized which made it shit with a keyboard and mouse.

And you know what? It's fine if a console is the lead platform, but don't piss on us and tell us we were on fire when we weren't.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

I believe developers sometimes opt for low spec requirements so more people can play them. I dont believe its a coincidence some of the most popular PC games have low requirements. Diablo III was made for low end machines as well, even lower than Skyrim.

I believe Skyrim was designed scale easily to consoles and work well on dated PCs.

Diablo 3 had a different design philosophy.
Like all Blizzard games... They push art and not fidelity... It's a similar philosophy that Nintendo pushes, thus making the comparison between Diablo 3 and Skyrim silly. Apples to Apples and all that.

Supporting low-spec requirements is fine. Many effects can be turned down or completely turned off, like Tessellation, HBAO and so on.
But Skyrim released in 2011, AMD already had 5 GPU generations on the market that exceeded the SM3.0 specification... And was about to release Graphics Core Next in a year or two.
But do you know what meets the SM3.0 specification? The Xbox 360.

If Bethesda wanted Skyrim to scale well, they would have implemented newer PC technology to begin with, The remaster/enhanced edition would have been the initial/default release on PC as it at-least supports some modern techniques that had become standard for half a decade on the PC prior to the games release.

With that though, maybe if Bethesda wasn't peddling the same Net Immerse engine over the past 15+ years, they might have been able to provide a better presentation. (Especially in regards to fur/hair.).

Skyrim's lead development platform was certainly the Xbox 360, the game and the game engine was optimized with that hardware specifically in mind... The graphics techniques speaks volumes there as the PC version didn't have PC graphics features.
I mean shit, Bethesda didn't even bother to make the User-Interface PC friendly, it was console controller optimized which made it shit with a keyboard and mouse.

And you know what? It's fine if a console is the lead platform, but don't piss on us and tell us we were on fire when we weren't.

Uh huh... I still believe PC was the lead platform and making sure it translated to consoles well was a priority.

The UI was inedeed console friendly but the 360 gamepad was becoming pretty standard on PC.



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Mr Puggsly said:

Uh huh... I still believe PC was the lead platform and making sure it translated to consoles well was a priority.

The UI was inedeed console friendly but the 360 gamepad was becoming pretty standard on PC.

Okay. So...

Despite the fact that the graphical effects were half a decade old and the game could run on a toaster... (Console parity graphics isn't having the PC as the lead platform.)
Had a user interface that was meant for consoles... (Shit that is designed for a controller and TV isn't having the PC as the lead platform)
Didn't support many PC centric features like Eyefinity... (Seriously.)

You disagree with the evidence and still believe the PC was the lead platform? Righteo then. Can't have a coherent debate with someone who ignores the evidence.

Oblivion and Morrowind had the PC as the lead platform... And it showed, those games actually utilized the latest PC technology at the time and simply looked amazing with a good PC optimized user interface. The console ports were downgrades from the PC version.




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RolStoppable said:
HoloDust said:
Years - I don't think many people around here quite comprehend TDP limits of handheld devices, in addition to AMD's designs being quite inferior to nVidia's in that regard.

What is TDP?

Thermal Design Point

basically, what he say is that yeah, you could build a ps4 level switch right now, if you look only at what gpu and board that are available. However the trouble with such a device is the limited space you have to get rid of the heat generated. the more power you have, the more heat is produced. So you have to limit your power to allow the device to evacuate heat

So a portable PS4 would have a very hard time to get all that heat out of the device



Pemalite said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Uh huh... I still believe PC was the lead platform and making sure it translated to consoles well was a priority.

The UI was inedeed console friendly but the 360 gamepad was becoming pretty standard on PC.

Okay. So...

Despite the fact that the graphical effects were half a decade old and the game could run on a toaster... (Console parity graphics isn't having the PC as the lead platform.)
Had a user interface that was meant for consoles... (Shit that is designed for a controller and TV isn't having the PC as the lead platform)
Didn't support many PC centric features like Eyefinity... (Seriously.)

You disagree with the evidence and still believe the PC was the lead platform? Righteo then. Can't have a coherent debate with someone who ignores the evidence.

Oblivion and Morrowind had the PC as the lead platform... And it showed, those games actually utilized the latest PC technology at the time and simply looked amazing with a good PC optimized user interface. The console ports were downgrades from the PC version.

The 360 does appear to be the lead platform for Skyrim. But I still feel it was built somewhere between PC as the lead, it has superior assets for PC, the foundation was set for PC only features, it was designed to work well on old PCs (like many popular PC games), but also very much designed with consoles in mind.

To the contrary, putting this discussion in context, that's pretty much the opposite of LA Noire. Which appears to be built for PS3 but translated fine to 360.

 



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It depends on how much money they're willing to lose per unit sold. Its possible right now, at a heavy loss.