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Forums - Gaming - How long until a ps4 level $400 hybrid is possible?

Probably when Nintendo releases a Switch successor in 5-6 years.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Miyamotoo said:

PS3 and 360 version of games have unstable and frame rate problems, we saw that in DF video, so that's a fact, so no need to talk about that anymore. I didnt said runs poorly. Again, PS3/360 definatly had better optimisation, like I wrote before Rockstar released LA Noire on PS3/360 they already were working several years on PS3/360 hardware and released couple games already, also they have similar architecture, while this is of their 1st year Switch game and totally different architecture.

So what if its not locked 1080p, dynamic 1440x1080-1920x1080 resolution compared just to 720p make huge difrence, also dont forget better textures, shadows and ambient occlusion.

Key word here looks less polished, and I agree, I think that Doom port on Switch did not had best optimisation, while BF4 definitely had great optimisation on PS3/360. Here is again point about 1st year ports compared to 5. year ports.

You are wrong, look at list of XB1 games from 1st year and you will see that most of them runs at 720p-900p not at 1080p, I will just mentione some of 1st year XB1 720p games: BF4, CoD Ghotst, Dead Rising 3,  Watch Dogs, Killer Instinct, Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes.

Uncharted 4 and Horizon ZD looks much better than any other PS4 game, and thats not strange, beacuse in later years we always geting more demadining and better looking games than we had in 1st year of hardware on market.

All we saw until now shows us that Switch in capability is somewhere between PS3/360 and XB1, and with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games.

Again, I said LA Noire demonstrates the superior CPU of Switch with higher resolutions and effects. But there is also frame drops, slow down, and I believe lowered draw distance. Whatever, its fine on Switch but it also shows potential limitations of the hardware.

I mentioned the resolution because its pushed as a 1080p game by some, its not.

BF4 is older and on inferior specs. But it looks more polished than Doom on Switch. Thats all I'm pointing out. Not really even making arguments, perhaps there are valid reasons, just making that point. Doom on Switch reminds me Destiny on 7th gen. Its technically impressive, has advanced lighting we rarely saw on the specs, even a rock solid 30 fps, but lacks polish and sub HD.

Thats not most of X1's first year library, thats a few. Four of which are 60 fps. The X1 doing 60 fps with modern graphics tends to be around 720p-1080p. All of the 60 fps games could have been 1080p at 30 fps. DR3 and Watchdogs are poorly optimized, I didnt mention them for a reason. I mentioned impressive 1st year games.

Eh... Uncharted 4 and Horizon ZD look great. But its not a generation leap or anything. They look like a polished 8th gen games.

Right now... I think we still need to see more ports on Switch. Especially 8th gen to Switch, not just 7th gen polish.

You again missing point, offcourse you will have some kind of limitations and no best results during port if you have game made specifkly for totaly difrent kind of hardware on mind (and I alredy wrote about 360 port). Basicly thats what DF also said, and why do you think why this is only game where Switch any drawbacks compared to PS3 version of game.

Dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p res, but compared to 720p we again talking about huge difrence in resolution.

Yeah, game can have better optimisation and Doom definitely don't look like best Switch port, also here is again point about 1st year ports compared to 5. year ports.

Thats not most of first year 1X library, but fact is that most of 1st year X1 library had resolution from 720p-900p not 1080p. No one of games that I mentioned are impressive looking games. Optimisation is my exat point, game in 1st year dont have best optimisation, games in later years have much better optimisation and look better.

No one said its generation leap, but it noticeable difference compared to PS4 first year games.

All we saw until now shows us that Switch in capability is somewhere between PS3/360 and XB1, and with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games.



Miyamotoo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Again, I said LA Noire demonstrates the superior CPU of Switch with higher resolutions and effects. But there is also frame drops, slow down, and I believe lowered draw distance. Whatever, its fine on Switch but it also shows potential limitations of the hardware.

I mentioned the resolution because its pushed as a 1080p game by some, its not.

BF4 is older and on inferior specs. But it looks more polished than Doom on Switch. Thats all I'm pointing out. Not really even making arguments, perhaps there are valid reasons, just making that point. Doom on Switch reminds me Destiny on 7th gen. Its technically impressive, has advanced lighting we rarely saw on the specs, even a rock solid 30 fps, but lacks polish and sub HD.

Thats not most of X1's first year library, thats a few. Four of which are 60 fps. The X1 doing 60 fps with modern graphics tends to be around 720p-1080p. All of the 60 fps games could have been 1080p at 30 fps. DR3 and Watchdogs are poorly optimized, I didnt mention them for a reason. I mentioned impressive 1st year games.

Eh... Uncharted 4 and Horizon ZD look great. But its not a generation leap or anything. They look like a polished 8th gen games.

Right now... I think we still need to see more ports on Switch. Especially 8th gen to Switch, not just 7th gen polish.

You again missing point, offcourse you will have some kind of limitations and no best results during port if you have game made specifkly for totaly difrent kind of hardware on mind (and I alredy wrote about 360 port). Basicly thats what DF also said, and why do you think why this is only game where Switch any drawbacks compared to PS3 version of game.

Dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p res, but compared to 720p we again talking about huge difrence in resolution.

Yeah, game can have better optimisation and Doom definitely don't look like best Switch port, also here is again point about 1st year ports compared to 5. year ports.

Thats not most of first year 1X library, but fact is that most of 1st year X1 library had resolution from 720p-900p not 1080p. No one of games that I mentioned are impressive looking games. Optimisation is my exat point, game in 1st year dont have best optimisation, games in later years have much better optimisation and look better.

No one said its generation leap, but it noticeable difference compared to PS4 first year games.

All we saw until now shows us that Switch in capability is somewhere between PS3/360 and XB1, and with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games.

Of all the 7th gen games that will be ported to Switch, LA Noire may be the most complex. May also be a bad port.

I'm a fan a dynamic resolutions, but its not a 1080p game.

You keep arguing about 1st year ports. That was a valid argument for 360, the disparity over time almost felt like a generation leap. But we aren't quite seeing that on 8th gen, not nearly at the same level.

All we've seen now makes me think Switch is closer to 360 than X1. But whatever, my perception can change over time.



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d21lewis said:
OTBWY said:

Factually wrong.

*Sigh*

I know it's more powerful than those consoles but the experience it gives is similar--unless you can give me some examples. It darn sure isn't on par with the other current gen consoles.

Your comparison is pretty much spot on, yes there are differences that go either way, you can never compare hardware directly with so many variables in the specification but what you have written is completely fair as an approximation and certainly represented by real world results.

Personally I don't think a hybrid would need to offer full ps4 performance, close cpu performance and lower gpu performance to output to a lower resolution screen. A hybrid of about 800 gflops with quad core later amd cpu's of about 1.5ghz could pretty much deliver enough power to run quick conversions of ps4 games at slightly lower resolutions, texture quality and have enough cpu power to run ps4 level game logic. There is no point trying to copy the ps4 hardware design today, better to utilise later tech and make a product with decent battery runtime.

As I have said before a small hybrid Sony console that also doubles up as a VR headset for PS4 and PS4 pro would be fantastic. It could also play lower quality VR titles on the go (PS3, 360 level) comfortably.  That to me would be a perfect product and be achievable at a great price and profit for Sony. I hope if Sony does do a hybrid they don't aim too high and lose the practicality of a portable with good battery runtime. I don't think current Switch has enough battery runtime and Sony certainly shouldn't go less than that.



Prob when FF7R releases. So roughly 2030 or so. We have time



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Mr Puggsly said:
Miyamotoo said:

You again missing point, offcourse you will have some kind of limitations and no best results during port if you have game made specifkly for totaly difrent kind of hardware on mind (and I alredy wrote about 360 port). Basicly thats what DF also said, and why do you think why this is only game where Switch any drawbacks compared to PS3 version of game.

Dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p res, but compared to 720p we again talking about huge difrence in resolution.

Yeah, game can have better optimisation and Doom definitely don't look like best Switch port, also here is again point about 1st year ports compared to 5. year ports.

Thats not most of first year 1X library, but fact is that most of 1st year X1 library had resolution from 720p-900p not 1080p. No one of games that I mentioned are impressive looking games. Optimisation is my exat point, game in 1st year dont have best optimisation, games in later years have much better optimisation and look better.

No one said its generation leap, but it noticeable difference compared to PS4 first year games.

All we saw until now shows us that Switch in capability is somewhere between PS3/360 and XB1, and with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games.

Of all the 7th gen games that will be ported to Switch, LA Noire may be the most complex. May also be a bad port.

I'm a fan a dynamic resolutions, but its not a 1080p game.

You keep arguing about 1st year ports. That was a valid argument for 360, the disparity over time almost felt like a generation leap. But we aren't quite seeing that on 8th gen, not nearly at the same level.

All we've seen now makes me think Switch is closer to 360 than X1. But whatever, my perception can change over time.

Switch will have more complex 7th gen games than LA Noire, and Skyrim is also quite complex game, huge open world with wildlife, villages, towns...but difference is that Skyrim was designed to be multi platform game on first place (including PC and Switch has similar PC architecture), that isnt case with La Noire.

That relly dont change fact that dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p even with point its not locked 1080p resolution.

Thats valid argument basicly with evre console and evre generation, beacuse fact is that games with new hardware in first year dont have best optimisation and dont look best, because fact is that buy time devs are getting much more familiar with hardware and they optimise much more games and take more from that same hardware after few years than they could in 1st year. How many games last year XB1 had that were runing at 720p and how many have them in 1st year!? You basicly keep deny clear facts.

Yeah, because you keep comparing Switch 1st year with best looking 360 games (try comparing Switch 1st year games with 360 1st year games), fact is that with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games in any case.

Last edited by Miyamotoo - on 01 February 2018

Miyamotoo said:
Mr Puggsly said:

Of all the 7th gen games that will be ported to Switch, LA Noire may be the most complex. May also be a bad port.

I'm a fan a dynamic resolutions, but its not a 1080p game.

You keep arguing about 1st year ports. That was a valid argument for 360, the disparity over time almost felt like a generation leap. But we aren't quite seeing that on 8th gen, not nearly at the same level.

All we've seen now makes me think Switch is closer to 360 than X1. But whatever, my perception can change over time.

Switch will have more complex 7th gen games than LA Noire, and Skyrim is also quite complex game, huge open world with wildlife, villages, towns...but difference is that Skyrim was designed to be multi platform game on first place (including PC and Switch has similar PC architecture), that isnt case with La Noire.

That relly dont change fact that dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p even with point its not locked 1080p resolution.

Thats valid argument basicly with evre console and evre generation, beacuse fact is that games with new hardware in first year dont have best optimisation and dont look best, because fact is that buy time devs are getting much more familiar with hardware and they optimise much more games and take more from that same hardware after few years than they could in 1st year. How many games last year XB1 had that were runing at 720p and how many have them in 1st year!? You basicly keep deny clear facts.

Yeah, because you keep comparing Switch 1st year with best looking 360 games (try comparing Switch 1st year games with 360 1st year games), fact is that with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games in any case.

LA Noire appears to be more technically demanding in different ways than Skyrim. I mean LA Noire has busy cities with cars and people. Skyrim's lead platform is clearly PC though.

Dynamic resolutions still isnt 1080p. I dont care how its pushed.

Again, the improvments on 7th gen arent anything like 8th gen. Because 1st year games on 8th gen still look comprable to new stuff. Frankly, same goes for Wii and Wii U, the graphics early on were much like the entire gen. I dont anticipate big imrpovments on Switch compared to what we're seeing now. Thats my prediction, but maybe 3rd parties will do a little better at making their releases more polished.



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Mr Puggsly said:
Miyamotoo said:

Switch will have more complex 7th gen games than LA Noire, and Skyrim is also quite complex game, huge open world with wildlife, villages, towns...but difference is that Skyrim was designed to be multi platform game on first place (including PC and Switch has similar PC architecture), that isnt case with La Noire.

That relly dont change fact that dynamic 1080p resolutions are very often pushed like 1080p even with point its not locked 1080p resolution.

Thats valid argument basicly with evre console and evre generation, beacuse fact is that games with new hardware in first year dont have best optimisation and dont look best, because fact is that buy time devs are getting much more familiar with hardware and they optimise much more games and take more from that same hardware after few years than they could in 1st year. How many games last year XB1 had that were runing at 720p and how many have them in 1st year!? You basicly keep deny clear facts.

Yeah, because you keep comparing Switch 1st year with best looking 360 games (try comparing Switch 1st year games with 360 1st year games), fact is that with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games in any case.

LA Noire appears to be more technically demanding in different ways than Skyrim. I mean LA Noire has busy cities with cars and people. Skyrim's lead platform is clearly PC though.

Again, the improvments on 7th gen arent anything like 8th gen. Because 1st year games on 8th gen still look comprable to new stuff. Frankly, same goes for Wii and Wii U, the graphics early on were much like the entire gen. I dont anticipate big imrpovments on Switch compared to what we're seeing now. Thats my prediction, but maybe 3rd parties will do a little better at making their releases more polished.

You said it, its demanding in difrent ways, same could be said for Skyrim compared to La Noire, LA Noire has busy cities with cars and people but Skyrim has huge ass world with wildlife, villages, towns, NPCs... But fact is that Skyrim was designed to be multi platform game on first place (including PC and Switch has similar PC architecture), that isnt case with La Noire.

You basicly ignored what I wrote, again: you keep comparing Switch 1st year with best looking 360 games (try comparing Switch 1st year games with 360 1st year games), fact is that with evre new game (more advanced, better looking, more optimised games) difrence can be only bigger compared to PS3/360 games in any case.



The hard part will be making it so that it can run games from the PS4 library automatically or with small patches rather then having to port them.



Mr Puggsly said:

Doom has better effects, while BF4 has larger more detailed enviornments, higher resolution, just more happening in general. Honestly, I didnt find Doom technically impressive but has nice assets and art direction.

 

The Switch has the likes of Skyrim, which shows it can do large environments.
You need to keep the comparisons as equal as possible. Apples to Apples and all that.

Mr Puggsly said:

Your thoughts on Ryse as a game are not important.

It is to me. And it may be to other forum users. You finding them unimportant is what truly is unimportant... Because I will state them anyway.
Making your whinging ultimately superfluous.

Mr Puggsly said:

The point is it was a great looking game for a year one game, still looks good. Also, not being 1080p is par for the course given the specs. Some of the dips were addressed in patches and were just in some spots. I bet a dynamic resolution would have really helped that game perform better and look sharper in low stress areas.

And I agreed that it was a great looking game with lots of dynamic effects, thanks to using CryEngine as a base. Did you miss that part or something?

Dynamic Resolution would have helped the anemic Xbox One hardware out a shit ton. The framerate dips also still exist, just to a lesser extent now. I do own the game.

 

Mr Puggsly said:

I think you mean Dead Rising 3, not 4. Not a great looking game per se, but I didnt mention it. I'm pointing out the 1st year games that do look good. I disagree though, Dead Rising 3 has higher quality assets than Doom on Switch, better textures, higher resolution, etc. Apples and oranges though.

Indeed. I did mean Dead Rising 3. My mistake, I'm only human. (Happy to admit my mistakes when I believe I am wrong though.)

Dead Rising 3 most certainly does not have higher quality assets than Doom on Switch.
The game looks like it pulled textures from a 6th gen console game, they are blurry, low resolution and terrible.
I do own the game, happy to take a few pictures if you want?

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, Im pointing out impressive looking year one games. Sunset Overdrive deserves a mention and it still looks good.

Sunset Overdrive looks as good as it does because of it's great Art Direction. It's going to be one of those games that is *always* going to look good and age well. Microsoft needs more exclusives like that.

Mr Puggsly said:

Heh, FH2 on 360 is not the same game per se. The 360 version was built on the 7th gen Forza engine, while the X1 version was built on the new engine used in Forza 5. Its actually kinda interesting, they basically rebuilt the game on the old engine instead porting the game.

You can port assets between game engines if you have the appropriate tools. Granted, sometimes it's better to build the assets from scratch.
But you are right.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

Sony is an electronics giant, and they have a huge vertical monopoly.  This means that they own certain things that give them an advantage.  For example they own the Blue Ray format which means they can make anything with a Blue Ray drive cheaper than any other company.

Wrong.
Sony doesn't make all the components that go into a BD-Rom drive, they buy that from another company and then get yet another company to assemble them... And then yet another company to package... And probably another company to handle all the shipping logistics around the world.

Sony also doesn't own Blu-Ray anyway, it's owned by the Blu-ray Disc Association, Sony is just a member in conjunction with another 20~ other companies.
Other companies can also join and leave the consortium.

The_Liquid_Laser said:

It should not be surprising that large corporations like the big 3 console makers have resources, capital, that give them advantages.  Sony has the most advantages with hardware.  Microsoft has the most advantages with making software like an online service or operating system.  Nintendo has the most advantages with pairing unique hardware with their games.  This really just has to do with understanding how capitalism, and specifically capital, works.


Sony isn't a company that has the resources to sink Billions in new chip designs anymore, rather they buy it from 3rd party's like Qualcomm, Broadcom, AMD and so on. Which means Sony doesn't have any extra advantages over Microsoft in this aspect.

Microsoft has also been building peripherals for decades, they also design/build Laptops, Tablets, Consoles and specialized devices like the Surface Table, it would be rather ignorant to assume that Microsoft is incompetent at hardware.

But you are right, that all three companies do have specializations where they are better in some areas than others, but that doesn't conflate to meaning they are worst at something else.

Alkibiádēs said:

Microsoft's biggest weakness is their lack of presence in Japan and lack of partnerships with Japanese developers. That means they lose out on a ton of high quality games like Dragon Quest XI, Persona 5, Nier Automata, Yakuza, Bayonetta, many jrpgs, etc.

I doubt Microsoft will ever gain a foothold in Japan. Japan seems to be fairly xenephobic and the games that the Xbox has doesn't really appeal to the Japanese demographic who tend to go nuts over something like Pokemon.

Mr Puggsly said:

Again, I said LA Noire demonstrates the superior CPU of Switch with higher resolutions and effects. But there is also frame drops, slow down, and I believe lowered draw distance. Whatever, its fine on Switch but it also shows potential limitations of the hardware.

It's also not using the full hardware feature set of the Switch. There is so much unused and modern efunctionality in that Tegra chip.
The Switch is only marginally more powerful at brute strength than the Xbox 360, where it's true advantage lays is thanks to a plethora of new technologies that have been added into modern chip designs which needs to have games leverage to make use of them.

For example... Texture compression. The Switch supports 3dc+. So it can compress Textures, Normal Maps, Light Maps, Shadow Maps and so on... If the game isn't built to take advantage of that feature, then it will use more Ram and consume more memory bandwidth.

Mr Puggsly said:

Skyrim's lead platform is clearly PC though.

Bullshit. Haha
Morrowind and Oblivion the lead platform was the PC.
Skyrim released without Direct X 10 and 11 support on PC... And opted for SM3.0 effects. It's hardware requirements at the time was so stupidly low it could run on a toaster.

Eventually, when consoles caught up to the PC, we got a "remastered" version of Skyrim which took advantage of a few extra features on PC... Essentially that version SHOULD have been the PC released version.

Rather, Skyrims lead platform was the Xbox 360 and the visual effects support that.




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