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Forums - Politics Discussion - Half the Venezuelan economy has disappeared

Leadified said:

And become another US puppet state until the false guise of "free market capitalism"? No thanks.

Who said anything about that?  The Venezuelans need to get government out of the way.  They don't need fake free market capitalism like the USA.  They need actual free markets.  



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And here's the part where Maurdo/Chavez knew things were going to go. Years ago, they imported hundreds of thousands of guns from the Russians for their militias. The earliest info I have is from 2009/2010, but Chavez was already planning to protect the regime with the Bolivarian militias that far back.

Sadly, evil dictators such as those within Venezuela's socialist party will do some terrible things to stay in power.

Venezuela will serve as a sad, stark contrast as to how not to run your country for decades... If anyone heeds the warning.

 

Also, its funny to come back this year and see so many people dogging socialism, instead of supporting it like they did in the early days of VGC. Oh my, how the times have changed!



Back from the dead, I'm afraid.

VAMatt said:
Leadified said:

And become another US puppet state until the false guise of "free market capitalism"? No thanks.

Who said anything about that?  The Venezuelans need to get government out of the way.  They don't need fake free market capitalism like the USA.  They need actual free markets.  

And what is an actual free market?



VAMatt said:
Leadified said:

And become another US puppet state until the false guise of "free market capitalism"? No thanks.

Who said anything about that?  The Venezuelans need to get government out of the way.  They don't need fake free market capitalism like the USA.  They need actual free markets.  

The problem is that the US is actively trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela so they can swoop in an install their own US friendly regime. The state department today has announced that they want to "force democratic change", a massive oxymoron, and has admitted helping to collapse Venezuela's economy. "Getting the government out of the way" is exactly what the US and European countries want right now in order to reap the spoil's of Venezuela's natural resources, they do not care at all for the Venezuelan people.



Leadified said:
VAMatt said:

Who said anything about that?  The Venezuelans need to get government out of the way.  They don't need fake free market capitalism like the USA.  They need actual free markets.  

The problem is that the US is actively trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela so they can swoop in an install their own US friendly regime. The state department today has announced that they want to "force democratic change", a massive oxymoron, and has admitted helping to collapse Venezuela's economy. "Getting the government out of the way" is exactly what the US and European countries want right now in order to reap the spoil's of Venezuela's natural resources, they do not care at all for the Venezuelan people.

I largely agree with you.  However, even if you are 100% correct, there is no realistic argument to be made that Venezuelans will be worse off under a US puppet regime.  Venezuela is a resource rich country.  It has been run completely into the ground by the socialist regime.  That regime must be cast off.  Then maybe the people will have the wherewithal to cast of the puppets that come next.   



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VGPolyglot said:
VAMatt said:

Who said anything about that?  The Venezuelans need to get government out of the way.  They don't need fake free market capitalism like the USA.  They need actual free markets.  

And what is an actual free market?

All transactions are completely voluntary, and in no way influenced by government.  Basically, zero government.  



VAMatt said:
VGPolyglot said:

And what is an actual free market?

All transactions are completely voluntary, and in no way influenced by government.  Basically, zero government.  

So, anarcho-capitalism?



VGPolyglot said:
VAMatt said:

All transactions are completely voluntary, and in no way influenced by government.  Basically, zero government.  

So, anarcho-capitalism?

I'm not sure where you read capitalism into that.  But, anarchy, yes.  



VAMatt said:
VGPolyglot said:

So, anarcho-capitalism?

I'm not sure where you read capitalism into that.  But, anarchy, yes.  

Actually, there may be a theoretical scenario where government exists but does not coerce anyone.  Seems unlikely, but I guess we could come up with some scenario that fits the bill eventually.  So, we could use the term voluntaryism in stead.  



Vincoletto said:

Yep. Agree with everything you say. Maybe one day our leaders, or our people, will wake up. Probably not. I just gave up hope.

I think the awareness about the causes of the situation is increasing. It's a slow change, but I'm confident that it is happening. For the first time we are seeing huge political figures going to jail and I think the Brazilian people is getting fed up with the politicians and will demand some change. Brazilians just need to get serious about who they vote for in all elections. Guys like Cunha, Collor, Aécio, Maluf, all elected by popular vote. The people elect known corrupts and then wants to complain about corruption.

Leadified said:

The problem is that the US is actively trying to overthrow the government of Venezuela so they can swoop in an install their own US friendly regime. The state department today has announced that they want to "force democratic change", a massive oxymoron, and has admitted helping to collapse Venezuela's economy. "Getting the government out of the way" is exactly what the US and European countries want right now in order to reap the spoil's of Venezuela's natural resources, they do not care at all for the Venezuelan people.

Blaming the US for the Venezuelan situation is far fetched. Venezuela has a fragile economy, extremely dependent on oil. A sharp price decrease combined with Maduro destroying the small industry of the country resulted in a deep crisis. He also rigged elections and changed the constitution to remain in power. He is simply a corrupt dictator that is getting rich and making all his friends and family rich while starving the country. 

But most issues are more related to Maduro's incompetency. Morales is doing well in Bolivia. But you can argue that he follows a different socialism line, more akin to the Leninist policy on the 1920s that led to the URSS becoming a big power. He basically leaves small and medium business alone to work and operate. The US would also be interested in taking Morales down, since he is also socialist, anti-US, a big Fidel Castro fan and had conflicts with the US when he refused to stop the production of Coca.

While the US sanction make things worse, we are reaching the point where other countries really have to intervene before he starves his population to death. I don't think the US will take any military action, since that would be a diplomatic problem with the rest of Latin America. So yes, things will stay like this for a while. For the US, they do have interest in replacing guys like Morales and Maduro. But their approach to Latin America is way more hands-off since the end of the Cold War, so I think the Venezuelan crisis has nothing to do with the US. Sanctions or not, things would be as bad as they are now.

It's also becoming a huge issue for other Latin countries. Brazil has more than 40,000 refugees in the North region. We can have a major South American migrant crisis.