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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

thismeintiel said:
JakDaSnack said:

The extra 20 weeks wouldn’t have added much, nor made up the difference.  ROTJ honestly isn’t a great film, it’s also the reason why Star Wars will be forever a kids movie.  Had they used Wookiee’s instead of Ewoks, and had Han Solo died like he was initially going to then the OT likely would have gone down as the best trilogy of all time.  Oh well.  

At any rate, what you either are missing or don’t seem to want to acknowledge is hype.  PM sold more due to 15 years of hype, same with TFA.  Ticket sales were down last year for a variety of reasons.  And we’ve had 2 Star Wars films in the past 2 years that Star Wars fans didn’t like for various reasons.  So for TLJ to be the biggest selling movie of 2017 is quite impressive.  Now had the movie been better it probably would sell more.  But regardless of the quality it was never gonna come close to the sales of TFA.

An extra 26 weeks NOW wouldn't mean much, but back then movies were slow burns. They didn't open huge and just performed steady all the way through. So, yeah, an extra 26 weeks would make a big difference. And we know it did. At 42 weeks, ANH was barely above ESB, only by ~$6M-$7M. In those extra weeks, it rose another ~$90M.

I fully acknowledge hype, it is you who does not. TLJ was so hyped up it only opened $80M WW below TFA. The backlash, and lack of repeat viewings from those fans, caused it to drop to ~$450M behind TFA in just 15 more days. Depending on how it tracks from here on out, it may actually fall to $750M-$800M behind it.  There's a reason Rian Johnson is acting the way he is. Disney isn't exactly thrilled with the results. 

ANH sold 250 million more world wide, so no, it didn’t matter.

No it’s actually you.  The first 1-2 weeks are mostly people who see a movie for the first time.  A lot less people were interested with seeing TLJ because of the lack of hype, lack of interest in seeing movies etc.  There is no evidence to show that Disney isn’t happy with Rian, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting the opposite. 



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JakDaSnack said:
thismeintiel said:

An extra 26 weeks NOW wouldn't mean much, but back then movies were slow burns. They didn't open huge and just performed steady all the way through. So, yeah, an extra 26 weeks would make a big difference. And we know it did. At 42 weeks, ANH was barely above ESB, only by ~$6M-$7M. In those extra weeks, it rose another ~$90M.

I fully acknowledge hype, it is you who does not. TLJ was so hyped up it only opened $80M WW below TFA. The backlash, and lack of repeat viewings from those fans, caused it to drop to ~$450M behind TFA in just 15 more days. Depending on how it tracks from here on out, it may actually fall to $750M-$800M behind it.  There's a reason Rian Johnson is acting the way he is. Disney isn't exactly thrilled with the results. 

ANH sold 250 million more world wide, so no, it didn’t matter.

No it’s actually you.  The first 1-2 weeks are mostly people who see a movie for the first time.  A lot less people were interested with seeing TLJ because of the lack of hype, lack of interest in seeing movies etc.  There is no evidence to show that Disney isn’t happy with Rian, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting the opposite. 

Your first sentence makes no sense, so moving on... 

Sure.. I just proved almost as many people were hyped to watch TLJ as were to watch TFA. You can try poor excuses to explain the huge drop since then, but they are just that, poor.  And that's why Rian was out pleading for people to watch the movie on its 3rd weekend, cause "that's the right time to watch a movie." And he's already talking about how Rey's parents can be retconned. Yeah, that shows confidence in your product. 

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 04 January 2018

thismeintiel said:
JakDaSnack said:

ANH sold 250 million more world wide, so no, it didn’t matter.

No it’s actually you.  The first 1-2 weeks are mostly people who see a movie for the first time.  A lot less people were interested with seeing TLJ because of the lack of hype, lack of interest in seeing movies etc.  There is no evidence to show that Disney isn’t happy with Rian, but there is a lot of evidence suggesting the opposite. 

Your first sentence makes no sense, so moving on... 

Sure.. I just proved almost as many people were hyped to watch TLJ as were to watch TFA. You can try poor excuses to explain the huge drop since then, but they are just that, poor.  And that's why Rian is out pleading for people to watch the movie on its 3rd weekend, cause "that's the right time to watch a movie." And he's already talking about Rey's parents can be retconned. Yeah, that shows confidence in your product. 

Really? Wow, is that what you do?  When someone proves you wrong you pretend like it doesn’t make sense? Lol ok 

You had 0 sources, just poor excuses and hyperbole. I actually had reasonable arguments.  And again, that doesn’t prove that Disney is upset lol, he’s just trying to please the upset fans.  

Just to add, ROTJ outsold ESB world wide by about 40 million, you claimed ESB outsold ROTJ.  Also your justification for the TLJ hype was saying that it only opened with 80 million less....think about that lol.  You proved right there that TLJ was not nearly as hyped as TFA.  Also TLJ has already outperformed Rogue One, despite the majority of TLJ haters claiming that Rogue One was better.

Last edited by JakDaSnack - on 04 January 2018

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JakDaSnack said:
thismeintiel said:

Your first sentence makes no sense, so moving on... 

Sure.. I just proved almost as many people were hyped to watch TLJ as were to watch TFA. You can try poor excuses to explain the huge drop since then, but they are just that, poor.  And that's why Rian is out pleading for people to watch the movie on its 3rd weekend, cause "that's the right time to watch a movie." And he's already talking about Rey's parents can be retconned. Yeah, that shows confidence in your product. 

Really? Wow, is that what you do?  When someone proves you wrong you pretend like it doesn’t make sense? Lol ok 

You had 0 sources, just poor excuses and hyperbole. I actually had reasonable arguments.  And again, that doesn’t prove that Disney is upset lol, he’s just trying to please the upset fans.  

But... But... The upset fans are an extremely small minority and the returns are in line with what Disney expected. Mhmm. So, why the need to please such a small number if everything is going great. And I have never seen a director plead for people to watch the movie in the 3RD weekend with such a poor excuse. Reeks of desperation. 

And it makes no sense because in that extra time ANH did another $90M in the US. Saying it did even more WW with that extra time just proves my point, not yours. Lol.  Don't get me wrong, I 100% expect ESB would have still been down, even if they both got the same time at the BO. But, it would have been more like 10%-13%. Unfortunately for ESB, it launched at a time when the whole industry was starting to change towards bigger openings and having less time in theaters. TLJ has no excuse for being this far down, except it was a disappointing/mediocre movie that many fans refused to see, again, or at all. 



thismeintiel said:
JakDaSnack said:

Really? Wow, is that what you do?  When someone proves you wrong you pretend like it doesn’t make sense? Lol ok 

You had 0 sources, just poor excuses and hyperbole. I actually had reasonable arguments.  And again, that doesn’t prove that Disney is upset lol, he’s just trying to please the upset fans.  

But... But... The upset fans are an extremely small minority and the returns are in line with what Disney expected. Mhmm. So, why the need to please such a small number if everything is going great. And I have never seen a director plead for people to watch the movie in the 3RD weekend with such a poor excuse. Reeks of desperation. 

And it makes no sense because in that extra time ANH did another $90M in the US. Saying it did even more WW with that extra time just proves my point, not yours. Lol.  Don't get me wrong, I 100% expect ESB would have still been down, even if they both got the same time at the BO. But, it would have been more like 10%-13%. Unfortunately for ESB, it launched at a time when the whole industry was starting to change towards bigger openings and having less time in theaters. TLJ has no excuse for being this far down, except it was a disappointing/mediocre movie that many fans refused to see, again, or at all. 

Times change bud, while his actions might be suspicious they aren’t fact.  Keep that in mind.

You never said domestically,  or Im half blind, or full blind. Also ROTJ outperformed ESB WW. But I don’t have sources to verify your arguments.

also how on earth does that prove your point lol?  At least you then admit I was right in the next sentence. I edited my last post but I will reiterate, you admitted to it being down 80 million opening weekend, that’s 15% less.  Proving it was not as hyped.  Despite the backlash it still has already outperformed Rogue One.  Not to mention that overall ticket sales are much lower this year than the last few years.  This is due to things like ticket prices, television quality rising, people getting tired of sequels and remakes etc.   Now it will probably end up being anywhere from 30-40% less than TFA, which considering where it started is about where it should be imho.  If it was better it would have done better sure, but no where near as much as TFA.



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Cerebralbore101 said:
Without spoiling anything, what was so bad about this movie? I haven't seen it yet.

Too much to list. Lets just say at no point aside from seeing Storm Troopers does it feel like a Star Wars movie.



DarthMetalliCube said:
I don't get why some are so defensive about this movie.. I mean I get the negative talk about the film for the most part because people are genuinely frustrated with what they saw and are venting - but people who like it, what's the point? Are you trying to validate your own enjoyment of this film? Who cares? If you like it, just watch and enjoy it and let those who don't have their opinions. It's like they're trying to convince themselves by trying to convince others.

I don't get why you were so defensive about the Wii U just a few years ago.. I mean I get the negative talk about the console for the most part because people were genuinely frustrated with what they saw and were venting - but people who like it, what's the point? Were you trying to validate your own enjoyment of this console? Who cares? If you like it, just watch and enjoy it and let those who don't have their opinions. It's like they're trying to convince themselves by trying to convince others.



JakDaSnack said:
thismeintiel said:

But... But... The upset fans are an extremely small minority and the returns are in line with what Disney expected. Mhmm. So, why the need to please such a small number if everything is going great. And I have never seen a director plead for people to watch the movie in the 3RD weekend with such a poor excuse. Reeks of desperation. 

And it makes no sense because in that extra time ANH did another $90M in the US. Saying it did even more WW with that extra time just proves my point, not yours. Lol.  Don't get me wrong, I 100% expect ESB would have still been down, even if they both got the same time at the BO. But, it would have been more like 10%-13%. Unfortunately for ESB, it launched at a time when the whole industry was starting to change towards bigger openings and having less time in theaters. TLJ has no excuse for being this far down, except it was a disappointing/mediocre movie that many fans refused to see, again, or at all. 

Times change bud, while his actions might be suspicious they aren’t fact.  Keep that in mind.

You never said domestically,  or Im half blind, or full blind. Also ROTJ outperformed ESB WW. But I don’t have sources to verify your arguments.

also how on earth does that prove your point lol?  At least you then admit I was right in the next sentence. I edited my last post but I will reiterate, you admitted to it being down 80 million opening weekend, that’s 15% less.  Proving it was not as hyped.  Despite the backlash it still has already outperformed Rogue One.  Not to mention that overall ticket sales are much lower this year than the last few years.  This is due to things like ticket prices, television quality rising, people getting tired of sequels and remakes etc.   Now it will probably end up being anywhere from 30-40% less than TFA, which considering where it started is about where it should be imho.  If it was better it would have done better sure, but no where near as much as TFA.

I try not to live with blinders on. His actions speak louder than words. 

So, I have BOM to back me up that ESB did better WW. Where's your data being pulled from? 

Outperformed RO? Oh my God, a main entry in the largest film franchise in history beat one of the spin off movies? Call the press. And you think a movie that started only 15% down should fall to possibly being 35%-40%. Something is very off there. And I would bet your original prediction changed, since most people early on thought it would easily hit $1.5B.

Also, don't give me those BS excuses. It's only been 2 years since TFA released and nothing major has changed, or even started changing, as was the case with ESB. TV and streaming are about as big. They haven't grown to immense proportions compared to  2015. Ticket prices have only risen 6% in those 2 years, where they increased by 17% between ANH and ESB. So, that excuse works more for ESB, not TLJ. And all those sequels and remakes you talk about people hating, are some of the best performers of late. If they are GOOD. We have Thor 3 that just came out that has already performed ~31% better than its predecessor, and still has a few weeks to go. Jumanji 2 just hit theaters and its already performed 34% better than its predecessor and its only been out 2 weeks. Hell, even adjusting the OG Jumanji's entire take for ticket inflation, it's only down by 35%. It has a real shot of matching, or even passing, it's predecessor. Again, poor excuses. People don't really care about this as much as they say they do. They just want a good movie to go to. 

Last edited by thismeintiel - on 04 January 2018

Simpleton said:
KLAMarine said:

Have we the math for this?

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars4.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars5.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars2.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars7.htm

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars8.htm

Empire Strikes Back made about 69% of what A New Hope made.

Attack of the Clones made about 63% of what Phantom Menace made.

The Last Jedi hasn't finished its run yet but enough data shows it'll be a minimum of 1.2B which would be about 60% of what The Force Awakens made.

An interesting pattern indeed...

 

Episodes 2 and 5 suffered backlash. One has to wonder what if a SW sequel didn't suffer backlash? Would it have been able to outperform its predecessor?

 

If I were Disney, that's what I'd be thinking.



thismeintiel said:
JakDaSnack said:

Times change bud, while his actions might be suspicious they aren’t fact.  Keep that in mind.

You never said domestically,  or Im half blind, or full blind. Also ROTJ outperformed ESB WW. But I don’t have sources to verify your arguments.

also how on earth does that prove your point lol?  At least you then admit I was right in the next sentence. I edited my last post but I will reiterate, you admitted to it being down 80 million opening weekend, that’s 15% less.  Proving it was not as hyped.  Despite the backlash it still has already outperformed Rogue One.  Not to mention that overall ticket sales are much lower this year than the last few years.  This is due to things like ticket prices, television quality rising, people getting tired of sequels and remakes etc.   Now it will probably end up being anywhere from 30-40% less than TFA, which considering where it started is about where it should be imho.  If it was better it would have done better sure, but no where near as much as TFA.

I try not to live with blinders on. His actions speak louder than words. 

So, I have BOM to back me up that ESB did better WW. Where's your data being pulled from? 

Outperformed RO? Oh my God, a main entry in the largest film franchise in history beat one of the spin off movies? Call the press. And you think a movie that started only 15% down should fall to possibly being 35%-40%. Something is very off there. And I would bet your original prediction changed, since most people early on thought it would easily hit $1.5B.

Also, don't give me those BS excuses. It's only been 2 years since TFA released and nothing major has changed, or even started changing, as was the case with ESB. TV and streaming are about as big. They haven't grown to immense proportions. Ticket prices have only risen 6% in those 2 years, where they increased by 17% between ANH and ESB. So, that excuse works more for ESB, not TLJ. And all those sequels and remakes you talk about people hating, are some of the best performers of late. If they are GOOD. We have Thor 3 that just came out that has already performed ~31% better than its predecessor, and still has a few weeks to go. Jumanji 2 just hit theaters and its already performed 34% better than its predecessor and its only been out 2 weeks. Hell, even adjusting the OG Jumanji's entire take for ticket inflation, it's only down by 35%. It has a real shot of matching, or even passing, it's predecessor. Again, poor excuses. People don't really care about this as much as they say they do. They just want a good movie to go to. 

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.



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