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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

Aura7541 on 04 January 2018
JakDaSnack said:

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.

Asserting that Wikipedia is a legit source is a grave mistake. You have to look at the source that Wikipedia is referencing in order to figure out if the figures are actually true. Whether you're right or wrong on this matter is irrelevant when your blind faith on a non-legit source perfectly fits your description of thismeintiel on your last paragraph.

You also did not address his other points like how other sequels have done better than their predecessors and yet, TLJ failed to perform better than TFA. Instead, you resort to ad hominem attacks. You already received a warning earlier in this thread, so I suggest that you cut the personal attacks out.



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thismeintiel on 04 January 2018
JakDaSnack said:
thismeintiel said:

I try not to live with blinders on. His actions speak louder than words. 

So, I have BOM to back me up that ESB did better WW. Where's your data being pulled from? 

Outperformed RO? Oh my God, a main entry in the largest film franchise in history beat one of the spin off movies? Call the press. And you think a movie that started only 15% down should fall to possibly being 35%-40%. Something is very off there. And I would bet your original prediction changed, since most people early on thought it would easily hit $1.5B.

Also, don't give me those BS excuses. It's only been 2 years since TFA released and nothing major has changed, or even started changing, as was the case with ESB. TV and streaming are about as big. They haven't grown to immense proportions. Ticket prices have only risen 6% in those 2 years, where they increased by 17% between ANH and ESB. So, that excuse works more for ESB, not TLJ. And all those sequels and remakes you talk about people hating, are some of the best performers of late. If they are GOOD. We have Thor 3 that just came out that has already performed ~31% better than its predecessor, and still has a few weeks to go. Jumanji 2 just hit theaters and its already performed 34% better than its predecessor and its only been out 2 weeks. Hell, even adjusting the OG Jumanji's entire take for ticket inflation, it's only down by 35%. It has a real shot of matching, or even passing, it's predecessor. Again, poor excuses. People don't really care about this as much as they say they do. They just want a good movie to go to. 

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.

Bwahaha. Wikipedia? Without checking the source?BOM, which gets their data from companies reporting, has the real number. The one you're looking at probably includes all the countless re-releases it saw. I'm talking about its initial 18 month run, where it grossed $307.3M. ESB did $209.4M. And like I said, at 42 weeks ANH was above ESB by only $6M-$7M. So, yes, those extra weeks made a huge difference.

After that good laugh, you're right, this is over.



 

JakDaSnack on 04 January 2018
Aura7541 said:
JakDaSnack said:

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.

Asserting that Wikipedia is a legit source is a grave mistake. You have to look at the source that Wikipedia is referencing in order to figure out if the figures are actually true. Whether you're right or wrong on this matter is irrelevant when your blind faith on a non-legit source perfectly fits your description of thismeintiel on your last paragraph.

You also did not address his other points like how other sequels have done better than their predecessors and yet, TLJ failed to perform better than TFA. Instead, you resort to ad hominem attacks. You already received a warning earlier in this thread, so I suggest that you cut the personal attacks out.

most accept Wikipedia as a legit source especially in this contest.  However you are correct in pointing out the referenced sources, I will give you that. I actually did address all his points.  I have been constantly attacked in this thread by thisismeintiel and other users, yet you didn’t point out them.  That shows bias, I have for the most part been respectful to many of the uses here despite their constant attacks.  However if you would like to assert your power as moderator than go ahead. Though I disagree that I used any personal attacks, as I have yet to resort to them.  I have indeed pointed out observations, but no personal attacks.  Yes I was moderated because I made a 1 word post which I forgot was against the rules.   But if other users attack me, I will defend myself, if you want to take their side, go ahead but it does not matter to me.



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JakDaSnack on 04 January 2018
thismeintiel said:
JakDaSnack said:

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.

Bwahaha. Wikipedia? Without checking the source?BOM, which gets their data from companies reporting, has the real number. The one you're looking at probably includes all the countless re-releases it saw. I'm talking about its initial 18 month run, where it grossed $307.3M. ESB did $209.4M. And like I said, at 42 weeks ANH was above ESB by only $6M-$7M. So, yes, those extra weeks made a huge difference.

After that good laugh, you're right, this is over.

At no point did you make it clear you were referring to just the initial release.  But you already admitted that ANH would have still made more so....



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thismeintiel on 04 January 2018
Aura7541 said:
JakDaSnack said:

Uh Wikipedia lol, and yes Wikipedia is legit.  It has ANH outperforming ESB by 150 million domestically, so your initial claim was wrong.  That’s great that you think you don’t have blinders, but if you objectively looked at your posts, you’d realize that you do.

Btw I had no predictions, I don’t make predictions.  And again you are adding to my argument, it was predicted to do 25% worse than TFA, it will probably end up only doing 100-200 million less than it was predicted....OH NO!!!!!! Sigh....movies don’t make consistently less than other movies from the beginning.....you act like going from 15% down to 30% is surprising....it’s not at all.  And there were more than 2 sequels out last year lol, and this isn’t an argument, this is a well known fact.  

Anyways, your bad excuses and hyperbole is getting tiresome, this will be my last post to you.  You have clearly been exaggerating the truth in order push your agenda.  See ya later.

Asserting that Wikipedia is a legit source is a grave mistake. You have to look at the source that Wikipedia is referencing in order to figure out if the figures are actually true. Whether you're right or wrong on this matter is irrelevant when your blind faith on a non-legit source perfectly fits your description of thismeintiel on your last paragraph.

You also did not address his other points like how other sequels have done better than their predecessors and yet, TLJ failed to perform better than TFA. Instead, you resort to ad hominem attacks. You already received a warning earlier in this thread, so I suggest that you cut the personal attacks out.

To be fair, and the ultimate decision is of course up to you, but I don't really see any attacks. I guess the blinders part, but meh...Though, I do completely disagree with his assertion that he has been attacked. We have all been arguing our points. We've gotten a little cocky at times, but nothing on the level of an attack.



 

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JakDaSnack on 04 January 2018
thismeintiel said:
Aura7541 said:

Asserting that Wikipedia is a legit source is a grave mistake. You have to look at the source that Wikipedia is referencing in order to figure out if the figures are actually true. Whether you're right or wrong on this matter is irrelevant when your blind faith on a non-legit source perfectly fits your description of thismeintiel on your last paragraph.

You also did not address his other points like how other sequels have done better than their predecessors and yet, TLJ failed to perform better than TFA. Instead, you resort to ad hominem attacks. You already received a warning earlier in this thread, so I suggest that you cut the personal attacks out.

To be fair, and the ultimate decision is of course up to you, but I don't really see any attacks. I guess the blinders part, but meh...Though, I do completely disagree with his assertion that he has been attacked. We have all been arguing our points. We've gotten a little cocky at times, but nothing on the level of an attack.

I appreciate you defending me, but it really doesn’t matter.  I had a couple users early on who were constantly attacking my ability to debate rather than my arguments.  Eventually I got tired of it and left, then a day or so later I came back and one of those initial users saw me and started to mock me yet again.  If I’m the one that gets punished, then this frankly isn’t the place for me.  Especially when the moderator makes several untrue accusations.  



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DarthMetalliCube on 04 January 2018
Conina said:
DarthMetalliCube said:
I don't get why some are so defensive about this movie.. I mean I get the negative talk about the film for the most part because people are genuinely frustrated with what they saw and are venting - but people who like it, what's the point? Are you trying to validate your own enjoyment of this film? Who cares? If you like it, just watch and enjoy it and let those who don't have their opinions. It's like they're trying to convince themselves by trying to convince others.

I don't get why you were so defensive about the Wii U just a few years ago.. I mean I get the negative talk about the console for the most part because people were genuinely frustrated with what they saw and were venting - but people who like it, what's the point? Were you trying to validate your own enjoyment of this console? Who cares? If you like it, just watch and enjoy it and let those who don't have their opinions. It's like they're trying to convince themselves by trying to convince others.

I didn't really like the Wii U lol.. I mean there were a handful of games I enjoyed on the console, so like, I talked about those in a positive way of course, but as a whole I was pretty critical about the console if anything :P

But yeah yeah I get your point. The difference is I don't say or imply the other side being "wrong/angry fanboys/simply nostalgic/ living in the past" simply for not liking games/consoles that I like, maybe in my more immature days but certainly not in recent years at least haha. Maybe it hasn't happened in this thread quite as much, but as a whole I've seen far more simple discrediting and even personal attacks from those who LIKED the film, while those who don't tend to moreso actually explain legitimate points as to why they didn't like it, this is especially apparent at places like twitter..

Last edited by DarthMetalliCube - on 04 January 2018

 

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Aura7541 on 04 January 2018
JakDaSnack said:
thismeintiel said:

To be fair, and the ultimate decision is of course up to you, but I don't really see any attacks. I guess the blinders part, but meh...Though, I do completely disagree with his assertion that he has been attacked. We have all been arguing our points. We've gotten a little cocky at times, but nothing on the level of an attack.

I appreciate you defending me, but it really doesn’t matter.  I had a couple users early on who were constantly attacking my ability to debate rather than my arguments.  Eventually I got tired of it and left, then a day or so later I came back and one of those initial users saw me and started to mock me yet again.  If I’m the one that gets punished, then this frankly isn’t the place for me.  Especially when the moderator makes several untrue accusations.  

Accusing someone of exaggerating the truth to push an agenda is ad hominem because that does not address the argument. You are attacking the character of that arguer instead. As a result, your claim that I am making several untrue accusations actually fits your description "exaggerating the truth to push an agenda" better than when you leveled at accusation at thismeintiel.

You also misconstrue dissent as attacks on you. As a result, your claims that you've been disrespectful also falls short since if you actually have been respectful, then you would not have made the false equivalence of disagreement as "being constantly attacked".

So how about you try this again? Present your argument, provide your evidence in forms of links (so no "Wikipedia said so". You have to link the original sources), and we go from there.



SuaveSocialist on 04 January 2018
thismeintiel said:

Bwahaha. Wikipedia? Without checking the source?BOM, which gets their data from companies reporting, has the real number. The one you're looking at probably includes all the countless re-releases it saw. I'm talking about its initial 18 month run, where it grossed $307.3M. ESB did $209.4M. And like I said, at 42 weeks ANH was above ESB by only $6M-$7M. So, yes, those extra weeks made a huge difference.

After that good laugh, you're right, this is over.

Speaking of re-releases...

Star Wars (Special Edition) : 580 Million     http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars4se.htm
Empire Strikes Back (Special Edition): 348 Million    http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars5se.htm
Return of the Jedi (Special Edition): 353 Million http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=starwars6se.htm

All three were released the same year, so playing The Inflation Game makes less sense than usual.

They all had about the same time in theaters (Hope had a three-week advantage over Empire, Return had a one-week handicap to Empire), so playing the Theatrical Run Card is self-defeating.  Especially since they were originally planned to have equal playtime, only for Hope and Empire to be kept longer due to their unexpected success.

Home video players had pretty much identical levels of ownership from Jan-April (1997), rendering The Format Argument pointless.

There aren't many places left for you to Move The Goalposts.  All things being equal, Empire made only 60% as Hope, despite it having long since been recognized as the best of the Saga.

Assuming similar performance trends with Episodes 7, 8, 9, TLJ would only be expected to bring in around 1.242 Billion and it's on pace to top that.



JakDaSnack on 04 January 2018
Aura7541 said:
JakDaSnack said:

I appreciate you defending me, but it really doesn’t matter.  I had a couple users early on who were constantly attacking my ability to debate rather than my arguments.  Eventually I got tired of it and left, then a day or so later I came back and one of those initial users saw me and started to mock me yet again.  If I’m the one that gets punished, then this frankly isn’t the place for me.  Especially when the moderator makes several untrue accusations.  

Accusing someone of exaggerating the truth to push an agenda is ad hominem because that does not address the argument. You are attacking the character of that arguer instead. As a result, your claim that I am making several untrue accusations actually fits your description "exaggerating the truth to push an agenda" better than when you leveled at accusation at thismeintiel.

You also misconstrue dissent as attacks on you. As a result, your claims that you've been disrespectful also falls short since if you actually have been respectful, then you would not have made the false equivalence of disagreement as "being constantly attacked".

So how about you try this again? Present your argument, provide your evidence in forms of links (so no "Wikipedia said so". You have to link the original sources), and we go from there.

He nor I believe that was an attack on his character.  It was just being cocky.  You did make untrue statements, I did respond to his sequel argument, you just missed it.  And I did not intentionally attack his character.  I didn’t misconstrue anything.  I know the difference between a disagreement and an attack.  When someone begins to stalk me and openly mocks my intelligence, that is an attack.  

I have a phone, linking is near impossible.  It’s why I said Wikipedia, because the site I was actually looking at I was struggling to link, so I just said Wikipedia because it was easier than trying to type the name of the actual site.  I didn’t care because no one that I replied to linked their evidence either, so I figured nobody cared, but that was before you showed up.



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