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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

mZuzek said:
pikashoe said:

No, I'm speaking as if I've read through a lot of this thread and come to the conclusion that a large portion of people here no nothing about film critiscm. This thread is about as insightful as the typical ramblings found on 4chan.

I am aware I chose to read this thread, pointing that out isn't some kind of intelligent observation. I was not aware of the precise content of the thread before entering, for all I knew everyone here could have been engaging in well thought out analysis of the themes and ideas in this film. But what I saw here was just a bunch of fanboy nit picking and flame wars disguised as genuine film critiscm. 

Every single person who likes this movie has this condescending "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude, I love it. It never fails.

I haven't done such a thing, though.



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Lucas-Rio said:

Snoke sent Kylo ren to the ground like if he was nothing.

Kylo Ren is easily the weakest villain ever.

Kylo needs to fall in love with Rey and she fall for him and then kill her in the ultimate gesture of rejecting the light.

 

The galaxy will then fall to Kylo Ren's Empire beginning an era of peace and prosperity free from Mary Sues.



mZuzek said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:

I haven't done such a thing, though.

Okay, in that case it does fail. But I did mean moreso the people who have more aggressively defended the movie's criticisms - they rarely use arguments other than "you know nothing about film making".

Good point. Despite the flaws in The Last Jedi, I enjoyed it. If I were to rate it, I would give it a 4 out of 5.



mZuzek said:

Every single person who likes this movie has this condescending "you don't know what you're talking about" attitude, I love it. It never fails.

I don't really care if someone likes or dislikes a movie.  all i ask is that people display the issues with a film in a intelligent manner. A vast majority of the issues brought up here are untrue, nitpicky, exaggeration, or can be applied to the original trilogy. If most of this stuff was brought up with people involved with film making or critiscm, you'd be laughed out of the place. You dont have to like a film to appreciate its quality.

I don't personally like the godfather part 2 that much but I can still appreciate that it is a great film. Or I enjoy the room a great deal but I still am aware that it is terribly made.

You can dislike this film and that's fine it may have just not engaged you, but objectively its hard to deny that it's at least an ok film. People throwing around words like terrible and worst star wars ever aren't adding much to the conversation because it just comes across as silly exaggeration. 



mZuzek said:
pikashoe said:

I don't really care if someone likes or dislikes a movie.  all i ask is that people display the issues with a film in a intelligent manner. A vast majority of the issues brought up here are untrue, nitpicky, exaggeration, or can be applied to the original trilogy. If most of this stuff was brought up with people involved with film making or critiscm, you'd be laughed out of the place. You dont have to like a film to appreciate its quality.

I don't personally like the godfather part 2 that much but I can still appreciate that it is a great film. Or I enjoy the room a great deal but I still am aware that it is terribly made.

You can dislike this film and that's fine it may have just not engaged you, but objectively its hard to deny that it's at least an ok film. People throwing around words like terrible and worst star wars ever aren't adding much to the conversation because it just comes across as silly exaggeration. 

Yet there have been many who've made fair and thoughtful criticisms, so when you generalize everyone based on only a few, it doesn't come across very well. I wouldn't say it's necessarily an "ok" film objectively, I think it's a film with some really jarring flaws and some really standout strengths, and that's not something you can just average into an "ok" rating or something. It's inevitable that some will focus on the flaws and some will focus on the strengths, because the movie lends itself to that.

I never at any point said everyone. I used words like 'most' and 'a lot'. I did for the specific reason that I wouldn't be accused of generalizing everyone because of course a few people actually do have some genuine issues.. Outside of some pacing issues and some comedic moments that didn't land there aren't any huge movie ruining flaws here. You may personally not like some of the directions it takes but there isn't much inherently wrong with them. 



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Friday's numbers are in. It did $19.1M, which is actually a little down from Thu, which is unusual. It dropped 23% from last Fri. If it follows the same day to day increases/declines for the Sat and Sun from last week, that would put Sat at $22.5M and Sun at $13.5M, both also 23% down. That would be $55.1M. So, a little under BOM prediction of $57M. This would also bring its US total to $519.8M, $222.4M behind TFA after 17 days.

We'll have to see what staying power it has Sat and Sun. Like I said, for it to actually drop 2.2% from a Thu is definitely not the norm. And it didn't happen to any of the other $200M+ openers for their entire runs.



Lucas-Rio said:
Soundwave said:

Star Wars prequels are a giant pile of steaming dog shit. Even Transformers has better acting, I believe Shia LeBeouf and Megan Fox more than the cardboard characters in the Star Wars prequels. None of it works aside from maybe the final half of Revenge of the Sith, and even that is stupid. You love plot holes so you tell me how much sense this makes:

Anakin wakes up at 7 AM ... still a good guy

By 6:30 PM that same day he's knee deep in murdered children and already 100% commited to the Sith, lol. 

You had three movies to show this turn to the Dark Side and THAT is what the best Lucas could come up with? Give me a fucking break, lol. You wanna talk terrible writing? TPM/AOTC are completely useless movies to boot, you don't need to watch them since ROTS establishes Anakin is married to and loves Padme, is friends with Obi-Wan, the Jedi don't trust Palpatine. So basically the previous two movies are just 4 hours of fuck wankery that don't need to exist, and even then the first half of ROTS has a lot of pointless crap like General Greivious (who gave one shit about this character? He is a cartoon). 

The love story in the prequels is not bad. It's TERRIBLE. It's like the "romance" an alien would write trying to extrapolate human emotions, it doesn't even feel like something written by a human being, lol. 

They're all idiots for not seeing that "Darth Sidious" is just the most famous person in the galaxy wearing a damn hood too. 

First Matrix was great, next two movies are just dumb shit. What the hell is even the point of Neo fighting 1000 Agent Smiths? He's never one in any danger. The only thought provoking thing about the Matrix sequels was how Morpheus' "digital self" included him gaining 20 pounds around the belly.

To me Star Wars 8 The Last Jedi is a giant pile of steaming dog shit as you would say. It's by far inferior to any prequel and by far the worst Star wars movie, because in reality it isn't a star wars movie.

As for revenge of the Sith, you must have forgotten that Anakin had a borderline personnality that has its root in how  he was separated from his mother. The premonitions he had about Padme death, following the death of his mother, was the breaking point. Sidious really convinced him he was the only one that could save Padme, when Yoda offered no other advices than stopping to care. When Windu was about to kill Sidious, he made its final choice and from there, he could never come back, he had betrayed the jedis and had only Sidious. Then he was completley gone into the dark side.

I thought it was really well shown.

The two other movies are necessary to expand the background: they show how was the republic, how the clone wars started, how the stormtroopers were created (and they started as good guys with that), how Palpatine cleverly rised to power, who was Luke and Leia mother and so on.

Star wars fans care about background and the universe a lot. Story wise it was great. The movies had flaws and the acting wasn't perfect as I said earlier, but it still much much better than the shitty The Last Jedi who isn't a true SW movie.

Alll Matrix movies are leagues ahead SW8, you did not like them, they are still much better than SW8, who is at the very end of the pack.

Prequels are shit, I showed my fiance just the second half of Revenge of the Sith and she got the basics of it, and even then I had to fast forward through a good third of it. We didn't bother with Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones (hey where did this giant army of clones come from? Lets not ask and just use them). They give Obi-Wan this huge "mystery subplot" to go find who makes the army, and his investigation goes nowhere, and then the Jedi never ask any questions about this ever again, lol. This is a great story? Universe building my ass. They created the most boring universe in the prequels that needed a cartoon series to redeem it. 

The only thing good about the prequels is the idea that the main character turns to the Dark Side ... which is something from the Original Trilogy. Everything else in it is fuck up. I mean we're going to use the same standards ... what the hell is even the point The Phantom Menace ... it's a phantom movie ... the Sith guy needs to get the Queen to .... uh ... sign ... uh a .... treaty for ... a trade ... dispute. Oooooooooh! It just sizzles with excitement! Speaking of which why didn't they just all shoot the idiot Darth Maul when he opens the door and is outnumbered like 50 to 1? Could've probably saved Qui-Gon Jinn and been faster too. 

The entire "prequel universe" is essentially two characters -- 1.) boring/reserved/dull human with zero personality or 2.) ridiculously over the top cartoon CG alien. There's literally no in between. And not just Jar-Jar, what's up with the 1950s diner owner that scratches his ass with his third arm? Or Boss Nass? Or the pod race announcers who literally sound like a parody of baseball announcers. This is supposed to be an exciting universe? I never want to see anything from any of these characters again. The only interesting one was Darth Maul, because he had no dialogue and a cool weapon, lol. 

If you think the Matrix trilogy is some great trilogy, ok, lol. That last Matrix movie in particular is sweaty ass. The filmmakers should just admit they had a good idea for the first one, but really had no clue about what they were doing with the trilogy. We already know Neo is "The One" at the end of the first movie and can even fly and all this shit, two more movies were pointless. By the end of the trilogy you also realize how lame all the characters look walking around in black S&M outfits all the time. By the end of the Matrix trilogy, the films had more than worn out their welcome, people talking about TLJ not being popular when it's box office runs circles around where third Matrix film was at. 

The Last Jedi not as good as the first Matrix, but it's easily on par or better than the two sequels. 

Last edited by Soundwave - on 30 December 2017

KLAMarine said:
Lucas-Rio said:

Snoke sent Kylo ren to the ground like if he was nothing.

Kylo Ren is easily the weakest villain ever.

Kylo needs to fall in love with Rey and she fall for him and then kill her in the ultimate gesture of rejecting the light.

 

The galaxy will then fall to Kylo Ren's Empire beginning an era of peace and prosperity free from Mary Sues.

You know, if that was handled competently, that would be an interesting end. Have Kylo rule from his Grey Side. Not truly good, but not evil, either. But, I know they can't handle that, and I also know MaRey Sue will come out on top in the end. 



"Grey Jedi" is just stupid fan fiction IMO. What the hell is a "Grey Jedi" in actual practice?

Someone who counts doing two good things and then decides he needs to be an asshole twice that day to "balance" it out and "stay in the Grey"?

lol. You either use the Force in service of others and in harmony or you are an asshole who uses it selfishly. There's no "grey" in between.

See? It's not so easy to come up with a new Star Wars concept, because people can easily rip anything new apart. 



thismeintiel said:
KLAMarine said:

Kylo needs to fall in love with Rey and she fall for him and then kill her in the ultimate gesture of rejecting the light.

 

The galaxy will then fall to Kylo Ren's Empire beginning an era of peace and prosperity free from Mary Sues.

You know, if that was handled competently, that would be an interesting end. Have Kylo rule from his Grey Side. Not truly good, but not evil, either. But, I know they can't handle that, and I also know MaRey Sue will come out on top in the end. 

After TLJ's backlash, Disney will play it safe. They'll still shove merchandising opportunity wherever it can fit and even if it doesn't, they'll jam it in regardless.

 

Stormtrooper porgs using the force and flying x-wings to save Rey from a danger she was getting herself out of anyways.