ironmanDX said:
thismeintiel said:
Unless they try to really fix the problems with TLJ, which would lead to a very messy film, or just ignore TLJ, which also could be messy, I wouldn't really count on any of that.
For the Snoke bit, are you thinking he was in the next room snickering, while continuing to project his dead "body." Even for Hux and Kylo to see 1/2 hour later when Kylo woke up after getting knocked out? Seems a little childish for the ultimate bad guy. Really, I would just except that they killed off what could have been a good villain with no explanation.
For Rey's parents, it doesn't really matter. She's a Mary Sue, that's how come she's so powerful. I mean she can lift a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no training. No lineage can explain that. They were going for the "anyone can be a Jedi." The reason they had the Force sensitive kid at the end, as well. And while that is canon, those Jedi still have to train for months/years to pull off the things she can do in days/weeks. Now, having it in your bloodline does make you more prone to being Force sensitive, so having the most powerful Jedi, who can do this all with no training, be a nobody is just a big letdown. As well as continuing to have her gain more power just by existing, instead of actually spending some time on the island training with Luke.
And don't even think she can be tempted to the Dark Side. Not MaRey Sue. She can look it straight in the eye, delve deep within it, and not be tempted at all. Hence the reason Kylo's offer is pretty much immediately turned down, even though they tried to hint at maybe she could turn. But, I knew better. The next movie will just end with Rey fighting Kylo. You can see it coming, just like you could see Snoke's death coming as soon as he started talking in that scene.
And the reason people are looking for answer's is because TFA set up so many questions. Really, some of them should have been answered there. But, many fans were willing to give it a pass because they figured the next film would not only answer some questions, but the answers to those questions would have been epic and/or meaningful. Kinda like the rest of SW. This movie did not even touch on some things, while it made others worse by having the answers be meaningless.
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Of course Snoke wouldn't have been in the next room. That would be stupid. I came no where near suggesting it. The movie clearly shows he has the ability to project others far across the galaxy. I'd think only doing it to a single being, would make it easier. Especially considering he'd be doing it to himself and not worry about being "detected" by Kylo. Not to mention the deflection of Hux and Kylo seeing it some time later... Well, no shit he'd keep displaying his body. He wouldn't let it just disappear. That would defeat the purpose of the ruse in the first place.
Luke didn't train for months before he almost pulled a much, much heavier x wing, out of the lake on Dagobah. Of course though, he failed. He was still lifting substantial weight through rocks and r2 before hand not too long after landing. I think with Rey, this may have been the least Mary Sue thing she's done. Having equal power to pull the lightsaber apart against Kylo tho? Yeah..... MaRey Sue! Unless she's an embodiment of the force, much like Anakin before her. That would be the only explanation I'd accept and even then I'd be disappointed through the lack of imagination. The dark side mirror hints at many things but ultimately tells us nothing.. Which was quite annoying.
I concede on the lack of explanation for a few things though. Rey's parentage should have been revealed and I would have liked more info on Snoke. The lack of info though leads me to think the way I do.
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Well, I was being facetious to point out how, even if he was far away, it would be really silly of him to project himself, just so he could die. Then, concentrate on having his dead body there for at least a half hour. What purpose would it serve? Other than for the audience to be like, "Oh man, he's not really dead" in the next movie. It really just doesn't seem like it has a point. In fact, that would just make him a coward. The Emperor had no problems being there in the heat of battle. This all powerful Sith has to hide away in a corner so he doesn't get hurt. I think you may want to just get ready for Hux and Kylo to whine about who's in charge in the next film. Unless they try a clunky retcon.
Do we even know how long Luke was on Degobah. Given Luke's appearance, I think it was implied that it has been more than a day or two. Either way, that entire time he was training with Yoda, yet STILL failed in lifting the X-Wing. Rey has never been given any training, just a quick explanation of the Force, yet can easily (and I emphasize EASILY) lift a metric ton of boulders. Anakin, who was some Space Jesus, had to train for years...just to get his ass handed to him by Count Dooku. Even Lucas, who definitely wasn't at his best with the prequels, knew that a Mary Sue, or Gary Stu, is just a boring character and therefore didn't make Anakin OP as fuck like Rey is.
And the lack of info in TFA made people believe that the answers would be in this film. If they really try to cram in all of those answers, and retcons of answers, the next film is going to be extremely messy.
d21lewis said:
Anyway, the Ewoks didn't defeat the empire. They were actually getting their assess kicked (though Lucas was fond of the idea of a primitive civilization defeating a more advanced civilization.). All the Ewoks did was help the rebels while they disabled the shield generator so that Lando could blow the Death Star. They pretty much sacrificed themselves. |
I get what you were trying to say in your earlier post. There were three battles that were going on in ROTJ. The Darth vs Luke battle. The space battle out side the Death Star. And the battle on Endor. The Ewoks played a role in one, who's main purpose was to take out the Death Star's shield generator. And in that battle the Ewoks were being helped by members of the Rebellion. They didn't do it themselves. In fact, if they were by themselves, they probably would have all died. To simplify it to "Er, da Ewoks defeated da Empire in ROTJ", just so you can try to equate it to the mess that is this film, is hyperbole at best, and a blatant misrepresentation at worst.
pikashoe said:
People here need to stop talking about film. It is painful listening to most of you guys. |
You're speaking as if we're having a shouting match in a restaurant that you can't help but overhear. This is a message board YOU chose to enter. This is a thread YOU chose to click on. And these are messages YOU chose to read.
mZuzek said:
Soundwave said:
The three Disney Star Wars movies thus far are better than:
Star Wars prequels, Marvel Films (Avengers, Iron Man, Captain America, etc.), Harry Potter series, The Hobbit Trilogy, Transformers, Star Trek Abramsverse, Jurassic World/Jurassic Sequels, DC Films (Batman Vs. Superman, Wonder Woman, Justice League), Terminator Genisys, X-Men (series), recent Alien/Prometheus, Pirates of the Caribbean series, Independence Day 2 (barf), Fast & Furious series, The Matrix Trilogy (first one is a great film, but the next two are mediocre), 4th Indiana Jones (barf). Spider-Man (series).
I'd Say It's Equal To:
Planet Of The Apes Trilogy, Avatar.
And Below:
Original Star Wars Trilogy (never gonna be beaten), Lord of the Rings trilogy, The Dark Knight Trilogy (though DK Rises sucked).
A lot of hate for something that's better than 95% of what is considered a blockbuster. TFA, TLJ, ROne may not be great films, but they're all solid to good IMO. You're not getting something that's OT Star Wars tier, not gonna happen.
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Except, that's like... your opinion, dude.
Personally I'd say Force Awakens is worse than most of the movies you've mentioned (well from the ones I've seen at least) and The Last Jedi is worse than almost all of them. So no, people don't hate it because it's "only" better than 95% of blockbusters, they hate it because they think it's actually bad.
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I agree. And people know what to expect from a lot of those series, which is why they like them. When they go to watch a Star Wars movie, they go to watch a Star Wars movie. One with deep lore, where the stakes are high, and things happen that actually have a satisfying conclusion and/or feel like they have an impact. They don't go to Star Wars to watch a poor copy of a Marvel film, but with less of a plot and importance, with more misses than hits on the comedy.
Cerebralbore101 said:
I'm sorry but this movie was incredibly dumb and full of plotholes. Let's go over the ridiculous amount of things that didn't make sense, or were just gaping plotholes...
1. Luke wanting to give up on being a Jedi makes no sense at all. He was willing to give Vader a second chance, but the second Kylo turns to the Dark Side he just gives up and hides on a remote planet? The real Luke would have fought to save Kylo. Also, there's no way an apprentice like Kylo would be able to knock out a Master like Luke.
2. An object in motion tends to stay in motion. This means that once a ship runs out of fuel it doesn't slow down. The writers forgot about basic physics making the entire plot of the movie dumb.
3. The entire chase sequence could have been ended by sending fighters out to destroy the fleeing rebel ships.
4. The entire chase sequence could have been ended by calling for backup ships to go to light speed just ahead of where the rebel ships were.
5. The entire chase sequence makes no sense because Vader's Star Destroyer caught Leia's freighter in A New Hope.
6. The entire chase sequence makes no sense because the Rebel Transports that they used towards the end of the movie have their own Hyperdrives.
7. The entire chase sequence makes no sense because the Rebel Transports that they used towards the end of the movie have their own shielding.
8. The rebel fleet is in a desperate retreat, but Finn/Rose can still go to another completely different planet mid-chase without being noticed by the First Order?
9. Leia using the force to Superman herself back into the ship makes no sense.
10. The bridge blowing up makes no sense, because shields have to go down for the entire ship for the bridge to be vulnerable. If a couple of fighters can blow up the main bridge they can destroy the entire ship. In fact, this is what happens to the Super Star Destroyer in RotJ.
11. Rose saving Finn from sacrificing himself makes no sense. She tells Finn not to destroy the things he hates, but fight to save the things he loves. That's what he was doing already! Jeez.
12. If Finn/Rose had time to go to the Casino Planet, have an adventure, and return why couldn't they have gone to an outpost and called for help from the outer rim systems?
13. Why didn't the rebel fleet just drop out of warp in front of the planet that their base was on? It would have been faster.
14. Why didn't Holdo tell the other rebels about her plan to go to the base, and call for help?
15. If going lightspeed and ramming a ship is all it takes to destroy a Star Destroyer, then why not use that tactic for all of Star Wars?
16. Why did Holdo have to sacrifice herself? A droid could have piloted that ship too, ya know.
17. What about the other Star Destroyers that weren't hit by Holdo's ship?
18. How can Rey use the force to lift rocks that weigh more than Luke's X-Wing? Even Yoda had to concentrate to do that, but she can do it easily with no training? She's not a Mary Sue, but jeez that made zero sense. Just like Leia's superman move.
19. How the hell did the First Order get to control the entire galaxy between the first movie and this one?
20. Luke gave Leia Han's dice, but then turns out to be a force projection? So the dice were fake too right? Right?
21. Apparently Rebel Bombers are made out of paper. Sorry but B-Wing model bombers, and Y-Wings can take a serious hit and still fly. Those bombers look like heavily armored B-Wings, yet a single blaster shot from a Tie Fighter blows up 3 of them in a chain reaction? What?
22. The bomber has a remote controller to drop the bombs. What? Sorry, but no. The drop bombs button is going to be bolted to the cockpit, not on a remote control that you can just lose. That was invented just to create fake tension in the bomb drop sequence.
23. Space horses can break through rock solid walls, but that doesn't hurt their riders.
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1. Exactly. They could have it where Kylo ran away with the other students who survived. Luke tries desperately to find him, both physically and with the Force, but Kylo is blocking him from his mind. He goes to the Jedi temple (not a tree, it should be an actual temple), to find a deeper connection to the Force, to break through Kylo's block. There he discovers something that almost completely destroys his image of the Jedi. Something quick and simple off the top of my head, maybe while poring over their tomes, he realizes that the Jedi have never recorded any of their bad history. Covering up when Jedis turn to the Dark Side by saying they simply died, preserving this false perfection about them. Whatever is better than what we got. Which is basically, "I fucked up so I hate the Jedi, now. Oh, and sorry about screwing up your son, Han and Leia, but you can deal with it. Peace out, fuckers."
2-7. I think there's a reason we have never gotten a snail's chase based on one of the ships running out of gas. For one, it's just boring to watch two crafts slowly fly, one never catching the other. Take the same scenerio, but make it a high speed chase on a long ass stretch of straight highway. 2 hours of the cars never gaining on each other, never turning, is boring, too. Two, like you said, it just doesn't work. And three, the longer that chase goes on, the quicker your suspension of disbelief dies. The Supreme Leader can't be this dumb, can he? To not simply do a pincer attack? Or lightspeed a few smaller crafts through the Rebels? His ultimate plan, that everyone is in agreement on, is to slowly follow behind a ship for 18 hrs til it runs out of gas? How the fuck did they take over the galaxy with shitty strategies like this?
8. Yep. I mean, are you telling me that the Order doesn't have a big presence on the planet, and at the casino, that is packed full of the people they buy weapons and crafts from? You'd think that would be a main target for someone trying to defeat the Order, so they would want some serious security there. And of the security that was there, you would think they would instantly recognize the big Rebel hero and Order traitor, Finn. TFA makes it seem like even the lower Stormtroopers know who he is.
9. It seems this is the only one the people who claim to like the film cling onto. Why? Well, it's the only one that you could possibly explain away. It's not really the best explanation, since it has never been set up that Leia went any further with her training in the Force. Still, I guess if you infer it you could come to some explanation. Personally, I still think they make her out to be too powerful, since she survives an explosion to the face and then starts to ice up in the vacuum of space, but survives with no physical harm, other than passing out.
10. Lol, yep. Must have a shitty shield if it only protects behind them. And if that's the case, why not continue to send ships ahead and keep blasting from the bridge, making your way back?
11. Probably the most cringy line spoken in the movie. Which is saying something, cause there were a lot of those. "Don't sacrifice yourself for the greater good, Finn. Oh, Purple Hair is doing it? That's the right thing to do and we should mourn her."
12. I will say it was established that no one wanted to help them. Which in itself is completely stupid. We went from a decent sized Rebellion in ROTJ and even TFA, where it seems like they had plenty of outside help. Then, just a few days after TFA, they are just a handful of ships, with absolutely NO help from the outside. How the hell did that happen?
13. But, if they did that then they would have led them right to their ba...Oh, wait, they would have led them there no matter what they did AND they actually did have more fuel for one more jump? Yea, I guess the director just wanted to treat us to that snail race.
14. Cause we needed that snail race PLUS all the lowly Rebels feeling utterly hopeless. Besides, how else was Po going to learn to not mansplain away her HORRIBLE plan, that the movie so desperately wanted us to feel was genius.
15. If they don't use it for every battle from now on, that's going to be a huge plothole. I guess it was kind of dumb, and damaging, for the director to pretty much destroy future SW battles, just so he could have that one cool shot. Get ready for a ton of "We're out of lightspeed gas" and "Oh no, we're damaged and can't jump" lines.
16. There's also autopilot. Of course, what makes it worse is that when we cut back to her, she's doing ABSOLUTELY nothing. Not sitting in a chair or touching the controls. She's just standing around sorrowfully. And then, it takes her forever to finally do something about the Order destroying the ships. And when you think about it, why didn't they just do this to begin with? Have everyone evacuate into the transport ships or the accompanying ships. Have one single person/droid/autopilot sacrifice themselves by turning the ship around and fly straight into the Order. So many lives would have been spared. Sure, Po wouldn't have learned to not mansplain, but who cares.
17. Shoosh. They don't exist anymore.
18. Sorry, but she is a Mary Sue. Goodie two shoes. One of, if not the most powerful Jedis, but with zero training. Never tempted by the Dark Side. The main characters love her. She's the only one who can be with Luke and warm his heart enough so he helps in the end. Yea, Mary Sue.
19. Personally, I don't think the first movie ever implied that the Order was small. Most people just inferred that themselves to explain away a plothole. But, even if that was the case, there's no way they took over the galaxy in the matter of days. Especially not with brilliant plans like the one displayed in the majority of this film. Chasing the last of the rebels for 18 hrs, yet they can't think themselves out of that problem within 15 mins? And Snoke easily defeated by his apprentice. Sure, I believe he/they took over the galaxy.
20. Yea, they're fake. Which raises two questions. This was a keepsake that Luke gave his sister from the MF, basically from Han (which bugs me that no one is even freaking mourning his death just days after it happened.) Why was she so careless that she just left it behind? And even if she did take them, did Luke not care how heartbroken she would be when they disappeared?
21. Cool explosions, man. Who needs an explanation. It's Transfor...I mean new SW, afterall.
22. Yep. I mean, what happens if someone accidentally drops that thing and they drop their payload before they should have. Either they destroy something, not meaning to, and/or completely miss their target, making the whole run pointless.
23. Or the space horses. Yet, there hide is thin enough to be greatly hurt by a taser?
Last edited by thismeintiel - on 30 December 2017
