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Forums - Movies & TV - The Fans Have Spoken, Last Jedi Drops A Massive 68%

thismeintiel said:
Teeqoz said:

There is no counter argument to make. The movie isn't meeting your sky-high financial expectations. Of course it isn't. The Force Awakens was the first Star Wars movie in 10 years. The Last Jedi is the first Star Wars movie in 12 months. The Force Awakens was the first Star Wars movie after the generally looked down upon prequel trilogy, The Last Jedi is the first Star Wars movie after the critically acclaimed (and praised by audiences) Rogue One.

How you were expecting TLJ to match TFA to begin with is the real question here. Surely you see why it is unreasonable to expect that? Don't you?

Sky high?  LOL.  You're not serious, are you?  To expect a sequel to do at least 85%-88% of the first one is not sky high.  The Avengers:AOU actually did 92% of The Avengers BO.  Trust me, Disney was not planning on this being down so low.  And had it been a great film, I bet it could have at least done 90%, maybe even 95%, of TFA's total.  Hell, if it had only been a good film it would have fallen into that 85%-88% range.  Sadly, most of this film was filler and quite a few of the fans rejected it, refusing the same repeat viewings they gave TFA.

Had this been any sequel I'd agree, but in this case, it was the sequel of the most succesful movie of the last decade. Age of Ultron got lucky thanks to explosive growth of western movies in China between the two releases giving it an advantage over The Avengers. Otherwise, it would've ended up at 1.2 billion, about 20% behind The Avengers.TLJ doesn't enjoy the same advantage over TFA, so its drop will be larger than AoU.

Sure, Disney might have expected an extra 100 million at the box office, but it's hardly a major problem.



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ironmanDX said:
I liked it, for the most part. Mostly because I don't believe things that the movie is trying to tell me are true.


Snoke isn't dead. He was just projecting himself through the force. Now, I know what you're going to say. How did the lighsaber cut through him? The same way Luke touched Leia. The same way Kylo picked up his father's dice. He also looked considerably younger and healthier in TLJ than his he looked in TFA. Why? I just can't see a major character being killed off with no explanation.

Rey's parentage I also don't believe. I think it was a tactic by Kylo Ren to push her towards the dark side while watching her friends and allies dying. Not too different to the emperors tactics that almost worked against Luke in ROTJ.

That half hour casino bullshit can fuck right off though. CGI animal cruelty? Fuck off.

It's also the second movie in a trilogy. I don't get why people are looking for answers to everything or a resolution.... There was definitely a lack of explanation for some things though.

Unless they try to really fix the problems with TLJ, which would lead to a very messy film, or just ignore TLJ, which also could be messy, I wouldn't really count on any of that.

For the Snoke bit, are you thinking he was in the next room snickering, while continuing to project his dead "body."  Even for Hux and Kylo to see 1/2 hour later when Kylo woke up after getting knocked out?  Seems a little childish for the ultimate bad guy.  Really, I would just except that they killed off what could have been a good villain with no explanation.

For Rey's parents, it doesn't really matter.  She's a Mary Sue, that's how come she's so powerful.  I mean she can lift a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no training.  No lineage can explain that.  They were going for the "anyone can be a Jedi."  The reason they had the Force sensitive kid at the end, as well.  And while that is canon, those Jedi still have to train for months/years to pull off the things she can do in days/weeks.  Now, having it in your bloodline does make you more prone to being Force sensitive, so having the most powerful Jedi, who can do this all with no training, be a nobody is just a big letdown.  As well as continuing to have her gain more power just by existing, instead of actually spending some time on the island training with Luke.

And don't even think she can be tempted to the Dark Side.  Not MaRey Sue.  She can look it straight in the eye, delve deep within it, and not be tempted at all.  Hence the reason Kylo's offer is pretty much immediately turned down, even though they tried to hint at maybe she could turn.  But, I knew better.  The next movie will just end with Rey fighting Kylo.  You can see it coming, just like you could see Snoke's death coming as soon as he started talking in that scene.

And the reason people are looking for answer's is because TFA set up so many questions.  Really, some of them should have been answered there.  But, many fans were willing to give it a pass because they figured the next film would not only answer some questions, but the answers to those questions would have been epic and/or meaningful.  Kinda like the rest of SW.  This movie did not even touch on some things, while it made others worse by having the answers be meaningless.



Even if Disney were disappointed, why would that be a good thing?

All you're going to get in that case is a predictable reaction of "these fat nerds just want the same movie over and over again, so lets never take any chances or risks, we'll just do the same thing as The Force Awakens over and over again".

That's the only "lesson" they will learn in that case.

Why cheer that on? You're going to get a uber-safe Episode IX that panders to 40-year-olds every whim and takes no risks. Oh wait, she is Rey Skywalker after all. Snoke was cloned from Palpatine's jizz left over on Plagueius cloak, what an interesting back story and he didn't die anyway that was a Snoke clone. Lets now have a ROTJ ending where Rey turn Kylo back to the good side and they team up to fight Jizz Cloned Snoke. Yippity doo da.

I don't agree with everything Rian Johnson did but at least he had the balls to take some risks.



Teeqoz said:
thismeintiel said:

Sky high?  LOL.  You're not serious, are you?  To expect a sequel to do at least 85%-88% of the first one is not sky high.  The Avengers:AOU actually did 92% of The Avengers BO.  Trust me, Disney was not planning on this being down so low.  And had it been a great film, I bet it could have at least done 90%, maybe even 95%, of TFA's total.  Hell, if it had only been a good film it would have fallen into that 85%-88% range.  Sadly, most of this film was filler and quite a few of the fans rejected it, refusing the same repeat viewings they gave TFA.

Had this been any sequel I'd agree, but in this case, it was the sequel of the most succesful movie of the last decade. Age of Ultron got lucky thanks to explosive growth of western movies in China between the two releases giving it an advantage over The Avengers. Otherwise, it would've ended up at 1.2 billion, about 20% behind The Avengers.TLJ doesn't enjoy the same advantage over TFA, so its drop will be larger than AoU.

Sure, Disney might have expected an extra 100 million at the box office, but it's hardly a major problem.

Isn't Avatar still the most successful movie of the last decade? It did make $2.8B in 2009.

It doesn't really matter what country the movie makes its money, if it's making it. And TLJ is going to get a chance at that same Chinese market. Of course, reports are that pre-sales are even lower than Rogue One's. Though, it's not like SW did gangbusters there anyway. If it's down by 30% there that's only off by $37M.  Significant, but nothing earth shattering by itself when  we're talking hundreds of millions. 

No, it's not just $100M they're going to be off by. We'll have to see where things settle, especially after this weekend when schools are in and theaters are taking it off a few screens here or there. Even if it stays 30% off  for the rest of its run and they expected to be off by 15%, which would mean TLJ making $1.76B, they're still off $310.2M. I think they may end up being down lower than that. 

And really, no matter what they were expecting, what's going to be reported is the amount they're off from TFA, ~$620M.



thismeintiel said:
ironmanDX said:
I liked it, for the most part. Mostly because I don't believe things that the movie is trying to tell me are true.


Snoke isn't dead. He was just projecting himself through the force. Now, I know what you're going to say. How did the lighsaber cut through him? The same way Luke touched Leia. The same way Kylo picked up his father's dice. He also looked considerably younger and healthier in TLJ than his he looked in TFA. Why? I just can't see a major character being killed off with no explanation.

Rey's parentage I also don't believe. I think it was a tactic by Kylo Ren to push her towards the dark side while watching her friends and allies dying. Not too different to the emperors tactics that almost worked against Luke in ROTJ.

That half hour casino bullshit can fuck right off though. CGI animal cruelty? Fuck off.

It's also the second movie in a trilogy. I don't get why people are looking for answers to everything or a resolution.... There was definitely a lack of explanation for some things though.

Unless they try to really fix the problems with TLJ, which would lead to a very messy film, or just ignore TLJ, which also could be messy, I wouldn't really count on any of that.

For the Snoke bit, are you thinking he was in the next room snickering, while continuing to project his dead "body."  Even for Hux and Kylo to see 1/2 hour later when Kylo woke up after getting knocked out?  Seems a little childish for the ultimate bad guy.  Really, I would just except that they killed off what could have been a good villain with no explanation.

For Rey's parents, it doesn't really matter.  She's a Mary Sue, that's how come she's so powerful.  I mean she can lift a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no training.  No lineage can explain that.  They were going for the "anyone can be a Jedi."  The reason they had the Force sensitive kid at the end, as well.  And while that is canon, those Jedi still have to train for months/years to pull off the things she can do in days/weeks.  Now, having it in your bloodline does make you more prone to being Force sensitive, so having the most powerful Jedi, who can do this all with no training, be a nobody is just a big letdown.  As well as continuing to have her gain more power just by existing, instead of actually spending some time on the island training with Luke.

And don't even think she can be tempted to the Dark Side.  Not MaRey Sue.  She can look it straight in the eye, delve deep within it, and not be tempted at all.  Hence the reason Kylo's offer is pretty much immediately turned down, even though they tried to hint at maybe she could turn.  But, I knew better.  The next movie will just end with Rey fighting Kylo.  You can see it coming, just like you could see Snoke's death coming as soon as he started talking in that scene.

And the reason people are looking for answer's is because TFA set up so many questions.  Really, some of them should have been answered there.  But, many fans were willing to give it a pass because they figured the next film would not only answer some questions, but the answers to those questions would have been epic and/or meaningful.  Kinda like the rest of SW.  This movie did not even touch on some things, while it made others worse by having the answers be meaningless.

Of course Snoke wouldn't have been in the next room. That would be stupid. I came no where near suggesting it. The movie clearly shows he has the ability to project others far across the galaxy. I'd think only doing it to a single being, would make it easier. Especially considering he'd be doing it to himself and not worry about being "detected" by Kylo. Not to mention the deflection of Hux and Kylo seeing it some time later... Well, no shit he'd keep displaying his body. He wouldn't let it just disappear. That would defeat the purpose of the ruse in the first place.

Luke didn't train for months before he almost pulled a much, much heavier x wing, out of the lake on Dagobah. Of course though, he failed. He was still lifting substantial weight through rocks and r2 before hand not too long after landing. I think with Rey, this may have been the least Mary Sue thing she's done. Having equal power to pull the lightsaber apart against Kylo tho? Yeah..... MaRey Sue! Unless she's an embodiment of the force, much like Anakin before her. That would be the only explanation I'd accept and even then I'd be disappointed through the lack of imagination. The dark side mirror hints at many things but ultimately tells us nothing.. Which was quite annoying.

 

I concede on the lack of explanation for a few things though. Rey's parentage should have been revealed and I would have liked more info on Snoke. The lack of info though leads me to think the way I do.



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ironmanDX said:
thismeintiel said:

Unless they try to really fix the problems with TLJ, which would lead to a very messy film, or just ignore TLJ, which also could be messy, I wouldn't really count on any of that.

For the Snoke bit, are you thinking he was in the next room snickering, while continuing to project his dead "body."  Even for Hux and Kylo to see 1/2 hour later when Kylo woke up after getting knocked out?  Seems a little childish for the ultimate bad guy.  Really, I would just except that they killed off what could have been a good villain with no explanation.

For Rey's parents, it doesn't really matter.  She's a Mary Sue, that's how come she's so powerful.  I mean she can lift a huge pile of boulders with absolutely no training.  No lineage can explain that.  They were going for the "anyone can be a Jedi."  The reason they had the Force sensitive kid at the end, as well.  And while that is canon, those Jedi still have to train for months/years to pull off the things she can do in days/weeks.  Now, having it in your bloodline does make you more prone to being Force sensitive, so having the most powerful Jedi, who can do this all with no training, be a nobody is just a big letdown.  As well as continuing to have her gain more power just by existing, instead of actually spending some time on the island training with Luke.

And don't even think she can be tempted to the Dark Side.  Not MaRey Sue.  She can look it straight in the eye, delve deep within it, and not be tempted at all.  Hence the reason Kylo's offer is pretty much immediately turned down, even though they tried to hint at maybe she could turn.  But, I knew better.  The next movie will just end with Rey fighting Kylo.  You can see it coming, just like you could see Snoke's death coming as soon as he started talking in that scene.

And the reason people are looking for answer's is because TFA set up so many questions.  Really, some of them should have been answered there.  But, many fans were willing to give it a pass because they figured the next film would not only answer some questions, but the answers to those questions would have been epic and/or meaningful.  Kinda like the rest of SW.  This movie did not even touch on some things, while it made others worse by having the answers be meaningless.

Of course Snoke wouldn't have been in the next room. That would be stupid. I came no where near suggesting it. The movie clearly shows he has the ability to project others far across the galaxy. I'd think only doing it to a single being, would make it easier. Especially considering he'd be doing it to himself and not worry about being "detected" by Kylo. Not to mention the deflection of Hux and Kylo seeing it some time later... Well, no shit he'd keep displaying his body. He wouldn't let it just disappear. That would defeat the purpose of the ruse in the first place.

Luke didn't train for months before he almost pulled a much, much heavier x wing, out of the lake on Dagobah. Of course though, he failed. He was still lifting substantial weight through rocks and r2 before hand not too long after landing. I think with Rey, this may have been the least Mary Sue thing she's done. Having equal power to pull the lightsaber apart against Kylo tho? Yeah..... MaRey Sue! Unless she's an embodiment of the force, much like Anakin before her. That would be the only explanation I'd accept and even then I'd be disappointed through the lack of imagination. The dark side mirror hints at many things but ultimately tells us nothing.. Which was quite annoying.

 

I concede on the lack of explanation for a few things though. Rey's parentage should have been revealed and I would have liked more info on Snoke. The lack of info though leads me to think the way I do.

The movie basically says Rey is the embodiment of the Force, much like Anakin. She's chosen/created by the Force because of the Dark Side fuckery going on and I guess in the Star Wars universe the Force in that case will say "enough of this" and create some kind of chosen one to bring the Force back into balance. 

Snoke says it, she's basically the light chosen to meet the darkness and it's basically all unavoidable. 

When we meet Gary Stu Anakin at 9 years old, he's already the only human that can fly pods with Jedi reflexes and he's freaking building 3PO with zero training already. What the fuck is the explaination for that? He has Jedi reflexes with no training? As a kid no less? Did he even need any training from the Jedi in that case? Seems to me like he would be a powerful Force user by the time he got to Rey's age (23/24). 

Anyways, why the fuck can't she just be the Neo of the Star Wars universe? That's basically what I see her as, and that is mythic archetype as well. Harry Potter would be part of that too. Their heroes journey is not about acquiring/training for powers, they are already "chosen" to be special, their journey is more about the struggle to manage that power.

Last edited by Soundwave - on 30 December 2017

Soundwave said:
ironmanDX said:

Of course Snoke wouldn't have been in the next room. That would be stupid. I came no where near suggesting it. The movie clearly shows he has the ability to project others far across the galaxy. I'd think only doing it to a single being, would make it easier. Especially considering he'd be doing it to himself and not worry about being "detected" by Kylo. Not to mention the deflection of Hux and Kylo seeing it some time later... Well, no shit he'd keep displaying his body. He wouldn't let it just disappear. That would defeat the purpose of the ruse in the first place.

Luke didn't train for months before he almost pulled a much, much heavier x wing, out of the lake on Dagobah. Of course though, he failed. He was still lifting substantial weight through rocks and r2 before hand not too long after landing. I think with Rey, this may have been the least Mary Sue thing she's done. Having equal power to pull the lightsaber apart against Kylo tho? Yeah..... MaRey Sue! Unless she's an embodiment of the force, much like Anakin before her. That would be the only explanation I'd accept and even then I'd be disappointed through the lack of imagination. The dark side mirror hints at many things but ultimately tells us nothing.. Which was quite annoying.

 

I concede on the lack of explanation for a few things though. Rey's parentage should have been revealed and I would have liked more info on Snoke. The lack of info though leads me to think the way I do.

The movie basically says Rey is the embodiment of the Force, much like Anakin. She's chosen/created by the Force because of the Dark Side fuckery going on and I guess in the Star Wars universe the Force in that case will say "enough of this" and create some kind of chosen one to bring the Force back into balance. 

Snoke says it, she's basically the light chosen to meet the darkness and it's basically all unavoidable. 

When we meet Gary Stu Anakin at 9 years old, he's already the only human that can fly pods with Jedi reflexes and he's freaking building 3PO with zero training already. What the fuck is the explaination for that? He has Jedi reflexes with no training? As a kid no less? Did he even need any training from the Jedi in that case? Seems to me like he would be a powerful Force user by the time he got to Rey's age (23/24). 

Anyways, why the fuck can't she just be the Neo of the Star Wars universe? That's basically what I see her as, and that is mythic archetype as well. 

Because star wars isn't for us. It's for the masses. We're supposed to dislike it as forum dwelling nerds... On principle.



Simpleton said:
I remember how around 5 years ago how Lucas was considered a greedy businessman who's newer movies pandered to children and only cared about selling toys. Now people are saying Disney is doing that and Lucas was some sort of artist with a vision lol.

The Last Jedi was flawed but no more than those Marvel movies people love. I enjoyed it, at least more than the prequels and Rogue One by a long shot.

Marvel movies are terrible movies.

Turning Star Wars into these kind of action only, super heroe movies for teenagers is an awful decision.



JakDaSnack said:
Mr.GameCrazy said:

So far, I've seen that fans are divided over The Last Jedi.

It’s a vocal minority that don’t like TLJ.  

It's actually the reverse.

It's a vocal minority of Star wars fans that like the movie. Also, Marvel fans and Disney fans like the movie but that has to be expected since they have lowered standards and like the likes of Avengers and others stupid movies.



mZuzek said:
Pavolink said:

In the theater? No. In the internet with bad quality.

Eh. In that case, I don't know. All movies are a lot worse when you watch them like that, but at this point the damage is done. The reality is, you didn't give it a fair chance, so your opinion is harder to take seriously - then again I did at least try to give it a fair chance, and I hated it. So, whatever.

There are thousands of critics written by people who went to the theater and who gave fair chance to the movie.

Personally I went to the theater having only heard abot positive professional reviews, nothing about fan backlash. I came in with expectations that the movie was at least good. The whole projection was slow torture with the movie becoming worse and worse as it progressed.

I got a very bad feeling when Luke threw his lightsaber for the lulz at the beginning. I understood the scenario was nothing when Finn knew the existance of the magical hyperspace tracker while Snoke ignored it even existed. I watched horrified the depressed and weak Luke grumbling the whole movie. Canto Bight was so long and so boring it started to become painful.

By the end, when Luke died from exhaustion, I was fuming, swearing I wouldn"t watch the next one.

I must say that it's probably the most disgusted I have ever been about a movie. It was truly a disaster.