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Forums - Politics Discussion - Donald Trump: How Do You Feel about Him Now? (Poll)

 

Last November,

I supported him and I still do - Americas 91 15.77%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Americas 16 2.77%
 
I supported him and I still do - Europe 37 6.41%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Europe 7 1.21%
 
I supported him and I still do - Asia 6 1.04%
 
I supported him and I now don't - Asia 1 0.17%
 
I supported him and I still do - RoW 15 2.60%
 
I supported him and I now don't - RoW 2 0.35%
 
I didn't support him and still don't. 373 64.64%
 
I didn't support him and now do. 29 5.03%
 
Total:577
TH3-D0S3R said:
jason1637 said:

But the zero tolerance policy is from the Trump admin. Obamas admin didn't have this policy. 

This is dealing with illegal immigrants, so I understand the zero tolerance approach. Personally I thought the children were better in those conditions then letting them live in the prisons with their parents (something the 9th district court agrees with, which is the most liberal court district). But I can sorta see the outrage so I get it. There has yet to be conclusive evidence to show the children were willfully neglected so my mind may change when we get more results on that.

In summary if these were normal citizens, I'd be outraged, but these are terrible parents who bring their children as a form of protection to try and get in. I feel bad that the kids are seen more as tools in their parents eyes, but illegal immigration IS illegal, and should not be tolerated.

First you have to understand how this is placed on Trump.  He signed an executive order which made all illegal crossing of the border a felony crime instead of a misdemeanor like it use to be.  This was a direct result of Trump and Session understanding that it would bring the Floreres act into effect and thus the separation of children from their parents.  Also, in the memo that Session sent to the south border, it states that everyone will be detained when entering the US and processed.  Those same people who are seeking asylum are also treated the same with their children taken away during this processing period.  Both items were direct changes and executive order done by Trump and Session to cause exactly what we have now.  The difference is that they thought this would go the same way as the NFL kneeling where Trump came out on Top with his base.  Session and Trump thought this would put pressure on the Dems to support his wall which he cannot get full support from his own party (which is the reason he need Dems support).

You even have him actually making dumb tweeter statements that its the Dems policy that this is happening and trying to place ever kind of blame he can on them for his own Political stunt.

Also, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to these parents and why they choose to come to the US.  If you are going to make a statement like that can you at least back it up with something more than a gut feeling.  When someone decides to uproot their family and leave everything they own and know behind to attempt to find something better, I highly doubt they are doing it to bring their children as a form of protection.



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irstupid said:
TH3-D0S3R said:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/393303-trump-signs-executive-order-to-keep-undocumented-families-together

B-b-but, Trump is just a big meanie who wants to separate children from their family. Ignore the fact that this exact law was passed in 2008 and Obama himself was sued for this exact issue, Trump is just a neener.

I also want to bring up the fact that this was brought up in Congress (you know, the place that is actually SUPPOSED to pass laws), and they needed 60 votes for it to pass through. Chuck Schummer and the rest of the Democrats refused, choosing to let Donald Trump fix their issues (https://www.mrctv.org/blog/chuck-schumer-too-lazy-bring-families-back-together). This just further proves that the Democrats don't actually want change and would rather use children as a club to beat over the heads of Republicans rather than actually DOING their job.

Again, Im a Libertarian who is indifferent to Trump, but this emotionally based argument needs to stop. Willfully being ignorant to the facts of a case only leads me to Trump, not away from him.

Congress is just stupid. For Obama, they were the party of NO, where they just voted no to everything he did.

Now they are the party of whatever makes Trump look bad. They, like in this case, could pass a law to fix it, but they know that if they do nothing they can sit there and blame Trump. And the press follows that narrative.

 

FYI, read the funniest article today. Apparantly at the G7 meeting in Canada, Trump grabbed some Starburst in his pocket and tossed them at Merkel and said "Don't say I never gave you anything"  F*ing hilarious.

Let me get this straight.  The Republicans control the house and senate.  You know the same party Trump belongs to.  You state that its Congress fault for the dumb stunt Trump did since it was his very own Executive Order that change how people crossing the border illegally or even seeking asylum are treated.  It was Trump and Session who change it from a misdemeanor to a felony.  Its not like Trump and Session did not know what would happen because Session stated it would lead to this very event.  So for you point of view, Congress is suppose to bail out Trump when he make his own mess then try to blame them when the stunt backfires.

I probably should not be surprised you have the opinion you do.  If you believe a Sitting president tossing Starburst at another leader of a country is funny instead of sad, I guess that is the president you want.  A president who at every turn disrespect other leaders but praises every dictator like they are the BFF.



Machiavellian said:
TH3-D0S3R said:

This is dealing with illegal immigrants, so I understand the zero tolerance approach. Personally I thought the children were better in those conditions then letting them live in the prisons with their parents (something the 9th district court agrees with, which is the most liberal court district). But I can sorta see the outrage so I get it. There has yet to be conclusive evidence to show the children were willfully neglected so my mind may change when we get more results on that.

In summary if these were normal citizens, I'd be outraged, but these are terrible parents who bring their children as a form of protection to try and get in. I feel bad that the kids are seen more as tools in their parents eyes, but illegal immigration IS illegal, and should not be tolerated.

First you have to understand how this is placed on Trump.  He signed an executive order which made all illegal crossing of the border a felony crime instead of a misdemeanor like it use to be.  This was a direct result of Trump and Session understanding that it would bring the Floreres act into effect and thus the separation of children from their parents.  Also, in the memo that Session sent to the south border, it states that everyone will be detained when entering the US and processed.  Those same people who are seeking asylum are also treated the same with their children taken away during this processing period.  Both items were direct changes and executive order done by Trump and Session to cause exactly what we have now.  The difference is that they thought this would go the same way as the NFL kneeling where Trump came out on Top with his base.  Session and Trump thought this would put pressure on the Dems to support his wall which he cannot get full support from his own party (which is the reason he need Dems support).

You even have him actually making dumb tweeter statements that its the Dems policy that this is happening and trying to place ever kind of blame he can on them for his own Political stunt.

Also, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to these parents and why they choose to come to the US.  If you are going to make a statement like that can you at least back it up with something more than a gut feeling.  When someone decides to uproot their family and leave everything they own and know behind to attempt to find something better, I highly doubt they are doing it to bring their children as a form of protection.

Except for the fact that this has been going on during the Obama administration as well, the only difference being Trump is more consistent about it and doesn't try to sweep it under the rug. 

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/06/15-56434.pdf

This case basically outlines why the law is the way it is, and it was ruled WELL before Trump was ever president. Trump is in the EXECUTIVE branch, and if you remember anything about basic US Government, the executive branch EXECUTES the law, which according to this case he is doing. I'm no fan of executive orders, so it's on Congress to work this out, and it seems Schumer and the rest of the gang don't give two shits about passing this through unless the illegals get to live here, which should happen in no circumstance. So in a way that is one of his few tweets that is actually true, because if Democrats actually CARED about reuniting children with their families, they would work with Ted Cruz and the Republicans to get something passed. 

But guess what, they aren't and they won't, because they are worthless bricks in Congress that do absolutely nothing. You need 60 votes in the Senate for it to pass, and Republicans need 9 Democrats to pull it through. The Republicans have at least showed me they are trying to do something. The Democrats are just sitting their thinking oh we wont do anything because we want Trump to do it. That isn't how power is supposed to work in this country and their blatant incompetence is mind boggling to me.

And also, parents only bring their kids because the media can sell it and it will garner more support. I'm sure life sucks in whatever country they come from, but why not work on change and improve your own homeland? I get things aren't rainbows and sunshine, but nothing is until you do something about it.

But no, most of the time these parents just send these kids on their own in hopes that they sneak in and they can follow suit. I hate that I even have to put it this bluntly, but let's be real. Who is the media more likely to side with, a 4 year old girl whose intentions are pure, or a 25 year old male who doesn't give us any clear motives? The 4 year old girl, 900000000 times out of 10. If these parents TRULY wanted a better life for their kids, they would either come in legally like all great immigrants do or seek refuge and wait until all the proper screening has gone through. Trying to sneak past the border is literally the worst thing to do for your kids, and yet they just do it anyway.

Some laws need to change, but illegal immigration is universal. The impacts couldn't be comprehended until you legalize letting anyone come in with no background checks or screenings.



irstupid said:
TH3-D0S3R said:
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/393303-trump-signs-executive-order-to-keep-undocumented-families-together

B-b-but, Trump is just a big meanie who wants to separate children from their family. Ignore the fact that this exact law was passed in 2008 and Obama himself was sued for this exact issue, Trump is just a neener.

I also want to bring up the fact that this was brought up in Congress (you know, the place that is actually SUPPOSED to pass laws), and they needed 60 votes for it to pass through. Chuck Schummer and the rest of the Democrats refused, choosing to let Donald Trump fix their issues (https://www.mrctv.org/blog/chuck-schumer-too-lazy-bring-families-back-together). This just further proves that the Democrats don't actually want change and would rather use children as a club to beat over the heads of Republicans rather than actually DOING their job.

Again, Im a Libertarian who is indifferent to Trump, but this emotionally based argument needs to stop. Willfully being ignorant to the facts of a case only leads me to Trump, not away from him.

Congress is just stupid. For Obama, they were the party of NO, where they just voted no to everything he did.

Now they are the party of whatever makes Trump look bad. They, like in this case, could pass a law to fix it, but they know that if they do nothing they can sit there and blame Trump. And the press follows that narrative.

 

FYI, read the funniest article today. Apparantly at the G7 meeting in Canada, Trump grabbed some Starburst in his pocket and tossed them at Merkel and said "Don't say I never gave you anything"  F*ing hilarious.

Ok, on a personal level, that's just hilarious.



Machiavellian said:
irstupid said:

Congress is just stupid. For Obama, they were the party of NO, where they just voted no to everything he did.

Now they are the party of whatever makes Trump look bad. They, like in this case, could pass a law to fix it, but they know that if they do nothing they can sit there and blame Trump. And the press follows that narrative.

 

FYI, read the funniest article today. Apparantly at the G7 meeting in Canada, Trump grabbed some Starburst in his pocket and tossed them at Merkel and said "Don't say I never gave you anything"  F*ing hilarious.

Let me get this straight.  The Republicans control the house and senate.  You know the same party Trump belongs to.  You state that its Congress fault for the dumb stunt Trump did since it was his very own Executive Order that change how people crossing the border illegally or even seeking asylum are treated.  It was Trump and Session who change it from a misdemeanor to a felony.  Its not like Trump and Session did not know what would happen because Session stated it would lead to this very event.  So for you point of view, Congress is suppose to bail out Trump when he make his own mess then try to blame them when the stunt backfires.

I probably should not be surprised you have the opinion you do.  If you believe a Sitting president tossing Starburst at another leader of a country is funny instead of sad, I guess that is the president you want.  A president who at every turn disrespect other leaders but praises every dictator like they are the BFF.

My point is that whether or not Trump made the mess or not is irrelevant.

Congress could fix it, but they choose not to in order to leave the blame on Trump as long as they can. They are essentially holding those kids hostage to make Trump look bad. They liked it when kids where being held up in as they call them cages, cause then they can blame Trump.



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Sigh... I don't vote for who I like more, I vote for who is more likely to accomplish the things I want. My single biggest concern in politics is outlawing abortions, because it is the murder of a human who has no say in the matter. And yes, I am also supportive of fixing our adoption situation so that the many people who want to adopt, but can't pay all the legal fees garbage, no longer have to do that. It is ridiculous that loving people can't adopt because of all the lawyer and court fees and whatnot.

Does Donald Trump's have a terrible personality? Yes. Does he reflect Christ or give any indication that he is a Christian by his actions and words? No. Did he follow through on appointing a justice that is against abortion? Yes. This is the single greatest thing that matters to me in modern politics. Everyone has that one issue that they care about more than anything. I'd be willing to live in a country that killed our 2nd amendment rights if it meant making abortions illegal. Between a anti abortion Democrat and a pro abortion Republican, I'd vote for the Democrat, and I'm generally conservative on things.

If I voted for someone on personality then Obama and George W. bush and Jimmy Carter would have been my votes in recent elections. Bill and Donald are just unpleasant individuals, but I don't vote based on age, gender, race, or personality. I vote based on how they feel about abortion. People may not like that, but that's my view.



TH3-D0S3R said:
Machiavellian said:

First you have to understand how this is placed on Trump.  He signed an executive order which made all illegal crossing of the border a felony crime instead of a misdemeanor like it use to be.  This was a direct result of Trump and Session understanding that it would bring the Floreres act into effect and thus the separation of children from their parents.  Also, in the memo that Session sent to the south border, it states that everyone will be detained when entering the US and processed.  Those same people who are seeking asylum are also treated the same with their children taken away during this processing period.  Both items were direct changes and executive order done by Trump and Session to cause exactly what we have now.  The difference is that they thought this would go the same way as the NFL kneeling where Trump came out on Top with his base.  Session and Trump thought this would put pressure on the Dems to support his wall which he cannot get full support from his own party (which is the reason he need Dems support).

You even have him actually making dumb tweeter statements that its the Dems policy that this is happening and trying to place ever kind of blame he can on them for his own Political stunt.

Also, you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to these parents and why they choose to come to the US.  If you are going to make a statement like that can you at least back it up with something more than a gut feeling.  When someone decides to uproot their family and leave everything they own and know behind to attempt to find something better, I highly doubt they are doing it to bring their children as a form of protection.

Except for the fact that this has been going on during the Obama administration as well, the only difference being Trump is more consistent about it and doesn't try to sweep it under the rug. 

https://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/opinions/2016/07/06/15-56434.pdf

This case basically outlines why the law is the way it is, and it was ruled WELL before Trump was ever president. Trump is in the EXECUTIVE branch, and if you remember anything about basic US Government, the executive branch EXECUTES the law, which according to this case he is doing. I'm no fan of executive orders, so it's on Congress to work this out, and it seems Schumer and the rest of the gang don't give two shits about passing this through unless the illegals get to live here, which should happen in no circumstance. So in a way that is one of his few tweets that is actually true, because if Democrats actually CARED about reuniting children with their families, they would work with Ted Cruz and the Republicans to get something passed. 

But guess what, they aren't and they won't, because they are worthless bricks in Congress that do absolutely nothing. You need 60 votes in the Senate for it to pass, and Republicans need 9 Democrats to pull it through. The Republicans have at least showed me they are trying to do something. The Democrats are just sitting their thinking oh we wont do anything because we want Trump to do it. That isn't how power is supposed to work in this country and their blatant incompetence is mind boggling to me.

And also, parents only bring their kids because the media can sell it and it will garner more support. I'm sure life sucks in whatever country they come from, but why not work on change and improve your own homeland? I get things aren't rainbows and sunshine, but nothing is until you do something about it.

But no, most of the time these parents just send these kids on their own in hopes that they sneak in and they can follow suit. I hate that I even have to put it this bluntly, but let's be real. Who is the media more likely to side with, a 4 year old girl whose intentions are pure, or a 25 year old male who doesn't give us any clear motives? The 4 year old girl, 900000000 times out of 10. If these parents TRULY wanted a better life for their kids, they would either come in legally like all great immigrants do or seek refuge and wait until all the proper screening has gone through. Trying to sneak past the border is literally the worst thing to do for your kids, and yet they just do it anyway.

Some laws need to change, but illegal immigration is universal. The impacts couldn't be comprehended until you legalize letting anyone come in with no background checks or screenings.

This is not a case of Trump being more consistent.  This is a case of Trump executive order changing illegal crossing from a misdemeanor to a felony.  Do you not understand this change was implemented by him.  This is not him enforcing the existing law, this is him using the existing law that required removal of children from their parents if changed with a felony.  It was a strategy enacted by Trump and Session.  So when a person is caught illegally coming over the border no matter the reason, instead of sending them back to where they came from when it was a misdemeanor, we now charge them with a felony charge. 

So by doing this you have a huge process where if you are going to prosecute you then need to detain them, take their children away and then jail them for a number of months, years ect.  So think about how unprepared the border was for this type of action without any real facility to take on this change.  Not enough judges for prosecution so now you have a backlog that when it was way smaller took 404 days to get to trial.  So, instead of having a few actual felony cases over the course of months where this process was enacted during other administrations, you have thousands, each one having to wait longer than 404 days for a court date.  Now triple that because Trump isn't just detaining illegal crossing he is detaining everyone and removing their children as Session memo to the south border stated to do for all crossings. This is why you have over 2K kids of various ages locked up which could take over a year before they find themselves back with their family or longer if you are going to actually put the parents in Jail.   

So no, this is not like Obama era because neither he or any other president was stupid enough to make a major policy change without support to actually make it work in a humane way.  But as always with Trump, he does things without any real thought or understanding, bungles it and make a bad situation even worse, then look for someone to blame.  This is why when he tried to put this on the Dems because he need their vote in the Senate to fund his wall is funny.  Think this through for a second.  Why would the Dems vote for any house build where no Democrats had any say in the bill.  In other words, the Republicans create a partisan bill without any Bipartisan support from the Dems, then they want to send that same bill over to the Senate where they need 9 Dems votes to get it over the fence.  No one in their right mind believe the Dems will sign that bill when they were excluded from the whole process.

To the bolded part of your post, I am guessing you believe that these people who seek asylum have cell phones, internet, money and read US liberal media with a plan to use their kids to sell their story to get support.  Or do you believe they can do something like what.  Stand up to their government.  Throw their lies and their children at the guns and the bullets and hope if enough blood hit the streets the people that are killing them will lose heart.  I wonder if you ever went on a missionary to one of these countries if you would even survive a day.



irstupid said:
Machiavellian said:

Let me get this straight.  The Republicans control the house and senate.  You know the same party Trump belongs to.  You state that its Congress fault for the dumb stunt Trump did since it was his very own Executive Order that change how people crossing the border illegally or even seeking asylum are treated.  It was Trump and Session who change it from a misdemeanor to a felony.  Its not like Trump and Session did not know what would happen because Session stated it would lead to this very event.  So for you point of view, Congress is suppose to bail out Trump when he make his own mess then try to blame them when the stunt backfires.

I probably should not be surprised you have the opinion you do.  If you believe a Sitting president tossing Starburst at another leader of a country is funny instead of sad, I guess that is the president you want.  A president who at every turn disrespect other leaders but praises every dictator like they are the BFF.

My point is that whether or not Trump made the mess or not is irrelevant.

Congress could fix it, but they choose not to in order to leave the blame on Trump as long as they can. They are essentially holding those kids hostage to make Trump look bad. They liked it when kids where being held up in as they call them cages, cause then they can blame Trump.

How exactly can him causing this whole thing be irrelevant.  It was never a Congress issue to begin with until Trump and Session decided to make it their issue.  Do not forget that Trump himself has vetoed Bipartisan bills that hit his desk because it did not give him a wall.  So basically what you are doing is forgetting that Trump also plays a role in the whole process not just Congress.  If he will not play with the Dems, not sure how he expect them to do anything for him when he needs their vote.  As someone who was suppose to be this great negotiator, he has shone that he is nothing of the sort.  If Obama did not get a pass for not getting Congress to help him pass bills and he actually tried crossing the line on both sides, why would anyone give Trump a pass for totally dismissing the Dems then think he can get things done.  Not understanding or being ignorant of how the House and Senate work is not an excuse.  If he cannot get both sides to work then he is just as ineffective as Obama.

The blame falls directly on Trump because he caused it.  It was Trump executive order that made the mess.  It's Trump executive order that could get him out but the damage probably already done.  He played a political risky move and bungled it.  No one but Trump should get himself out of it.  Maybe the next time a Bipartisan bill hits his desk he will think more about actually signing it then going for dumb risk political moves that make his administration look like idiots.



Nymeria said:
I have to ask, if there a line the president could cross that would cause people to no longer support him?

His supporters are cultish , similar to support of Hitler and Kim Jun.... So There is no limit. Everything can be explained justified. Until one day the scales are lifted from their eyes. Time is all you have now.



Machiavellian said:
irstupid said:

My point is that whether or not Trump made the mess or not is irrelevant.

Congress could fix it, but they choose not to in order to leave the blame on Trump as long as they can. They are essentially holding those kids hostage to make Trump look bad. They liked it when kids where being held up in as they call them cages, cause then they can blame Trump.

How exactly can him causing this whole thing be irrelevant.  It was never a Congress issue to begin with until Trump and Session decided to make it their issue.  Do not forget that Trump himself has vetoed Bipartisan bills that hit his desk because it did not give him a wall.  So basically what you are doing is forgetting that Trump also plays a role in the whole process not just Congress.  If he will not play with the Dems, not sure how he expect them to do anything for him when he needs their vote.  As someone who was suppose to be this great negotiator, he has shone that he is nothing of the sort.  If Obama did not get a pass for not getting Congress to help him pass bills and he actually tried crossing the line on both sides, why would anyone give Trump a pass for totally dismissing the Dems then think he can get things done.  Not understanding or being ignorant of how the House and Senate work is not an excuse.  If he cannot get both sides to work then he is just as ineffective as Obama.

The blame falls directly on Trump because he caused it.  It was Trump executive order that made the mess.  It's Trump executive order that could get him out but the damage probably already done.  He played a political risky move and bungled it.  No one but Trump should get himself out of it.  Maybe the next time a Bipartisan bill hits his desk he will think more about actually signing it then going for dumb risk political moves that make his administration look like idiots.

Let me put it in nice lamens terms for you.

I leave work and when leaving I turn off the light in my office, which I share with two other people. Those two people then spend the next 3 hours bitching about me and how its so dark in the office and what an asshole I am. They start blogging and tweeting and facebooking about how I'm such an asshole and how they are forced to work in darkness. (or not as bright a room, cause still windows.)

I mean, they could just get off their chairs and walk 10 feet to the light switch and turn the lights back on if they wanted.

 

That is why I don't give a flying FUCK about congress pointing fingers at Trump about this issue. And don't say Republicans own congress. Republicans and Democrats both hate trump, they both call him out on shit. They both think that they will win voters by being anti-Trump. Trump is fighting both of them constantly. If they fixed the issue, then they could point at Trump and say "look at what a horrible thing he did, and we FIXED"  But no, they are sitting their on their thumbs feet away from a light switch bitching about Trump. They are just coming off as whiners and people I will ignore. Trump and Sessions did something. They made crossing the border a harsher penalty. Did they know the consequences to that? I don't know. I'm not going to make any assumptions. But they then fixed the consequences of that action.

What did Congress do? NOTHING. Not a damn thing but sit and say Look how horrible Trump is. BTW, don't you love that Time Magazine cover with the little girl crying while looking up at Trump.