1. I think if it stops illegal immigration from the border like in Isreal then it's worth it.

2. How would they know the number that didn't get caught though if they didn't get caught?

1. Nah, a trillion is way too much.

2. It would not increase by that much because as people come illegally people are also geting deported and soem people that come from Mexico leave so theres that. I got that it was hundreds of thousands a year from the last report i found on the department of homeland security page. https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/publications/18_1214_PLCY_pops-est-report.pdf

In the second to last page you can see the increase of ilegal immigrants from Mexico, and central/South American countries. These are also estimates so we don't know 100% but they come from the government so there should be some truth to them (hopefully XD).

The math would be simple wouldn’t it? Well, not absolute, but a basic equation would give us an idea of whether it is worth it or not. Kinda like:

if ((Illegal Immigrants per year x (financial burden to economyx Reasonable ROI (as a factorial)))-(Illegal Immigrants per year x % Reduction via wall))-(Wall cost + Wall Maintenance x Reasonable ROI) <= 0 then it is worth it, right?

Or something like that. It’s a wonder why no one has bothered posting it yet. Personally, I’m too lazy to do the research right now. :p

A wall is not 100% effective, of course. But it is highly effective if the Israel wall is something to go by. You can usually scale up security to compensate for distance and ppl being to dig or to tunnel under would be an outlier not the norm and should not impact the math too dramatically.

1. I saw somewhere that the 5.7b Trump wants is like .11% of total spending so of the dome i'd say 1% is too much.

2. Yeah but the immigrants that come from planes have been vetted while border crossers have not. I think that people overstaying their visas also needs to be addressed but thats another subject.

I'm utterly baffled at how xenophobic Americans are.

Y'all know you're all immigrants, right? Wait, you DO know that, and you saw how destructive immigrants can be to the local culture....by being the scourge of the white man to natives back in the 1700s. Americans know first-hand the dangers of immigration because white americans are the most invasive species in North America! got it!

Get offended all you want, I'm right and you know it. Confront your past and accept your hypocrisy.

You're not an immigrant to a place you were born. The European settlers we're immigrants but Americans today born in the US are not.

The reason I ask is that you seem very wedded to this wall idea. And even although most of the information you've given has been corrected by others to show that the problem is not as bad as you initially thought, your view seems not to have budged even an inch...

If you were open-minded about the topic then new information should at least make you reconsider your position, but there has been zero evidence of that.

It's like you're supporting a sports team, rather than weighing up the pros and cons of this particular issue on it's own merits...

At one point, in an attempt to reduce the perceived cost of the wall (I'm guessing in order to make it seem better value for money) you stated 'Personally I think the 50 billion for a wall is bs. 5.6 billion should be enough if you budget correctly.'

I mean, what is this assertion based on? Wishful thinking? What do you, me, or the next guy on this forum know about the funding and efficiencies of large scale government infrastructure projects? Unless you are an expert in the field (which I'm guessing you're not as your point would have been more insightful than 'I call bs'...)

If it's not the case that you are personally being impacted by illegal immigration and the information you claim to have based your initial opinions on has been proven to be false, then I get the sense that what your opinions are being driven by is largely partisan in nature...

This is in addition to your continued hand-wringing over the dem's unwillingness to make a deal with Trump - even though others have REPEATEDLY pointed out that: a) Trump isn't actually offering anything of value & b) the dem's have clearly stated their stance on Trump's repeated tactic of using government shutdowns as leverage to get what he wants.

You either need to prove that these 2 points are false or unreasonable, or stop repeating the same flawed sentiment over & over....

Quite fittingly, it feels like speaking to a wall... 

This to me, is the biggest problem at the moment with politics (not just in the US I might add) - too much subscribing to party lines & not enough considered thought as individuals...

Exactly! People from south of the border want to make a life for their families in America and do so by various means. If you're born in the US, then you're a US Citizen and they know that, which is why it's worth the risk. The initial immigration may not be wanted but rules are rules. 

it's basically the same thing. White folk saw it happen to the natives and don't want it happening to them. The fact that their ancestors basically wiped out the natives make them fear for their own legacy, which is hilariously hypocritical and xenophobic. I do not understand how ANYONE can hate the idea of people wanting to come to their country. We became a global population in the early 2000s when the internet became widespread, I see no benefit in this tribalistic us vs them mentality. we SHOULD be working together to make the world a better place, not denying people basic human rights because they were born somewhere else. 

Globalism, environmentalism, and humanism should come before your precious economy. If there are no people, if there is no trade with foreign nations, and if the environment gets scorched due to our actions, there will be no economy and there will be no borders. Caring only about tax dollars and the budget and some misguided fear of foreigners is woefully shortsighted. 

But then again, that's republican mentality. "Fuck you, I got mine." 

Which is why I have no respect for the party. 

As a white male who was born in the U.S. (parents and grandparents too), I can say that if allowing immigrants to flood into the country will negatively impact my life, then there is a good chance I don't want it. An illegal, Mexican immigrant who doesn't pay taxes is probably not benefiting me (perhaps hindering me, even), so I would want something done about it.

It might seem like selfish behavior, but it's also my wife and kids, my family, my wife's family, etcetera.

I'm not a republican, but it's not so much a "Fuck you" as just a "I want nothing to do with you". I don't think there is hatred towards these people. I can understand why everyone wants to come to the U.S., and I sympathize with those that can't come here, but as a human being, I want the lives of those that are close to me to be improved. It sucks that there are people that have to risk their lives to get into this country.

The Dems did say it suck and they did say no.  I guess you miss the memo.  The point still stand, no deal until the government is open.  The DACA offer was a joke and if standing by what you say is weak, then I guess they will be weak in YOUR eyes.  At the end of the day, playing the shutdown game is over.  3 times is enough of that.  The one way you get such a play off the table is to never deal from that position.  The last thing the Dems want is another shutdown because Trump decided to use it a 4th time.  

Lol, so the Dems stance is that Trump is making them look bad so open the government.  I guess if that is how you see it then it must be so.  Since the polls and Trump support doesn't agree with you, I am going to take this as just your opinion.  Also if I am not mistaken, Trump has said numerous times that he has built his wall.  Did you not get the memo on that.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2018/04/05/president-trump-says-his-beautiful-wall-is-being-built-nope/?utm_term=.562a208a6400

Trump saying he wants to deal and actually dealing is two different things.  Trump says a lot of things he doesn't mean but action is always a true test of a person resolve.  Why don't you show you evidence of Trump actually trying to deal with the Dems at any point.  For every one you find, I can find 10 examples where he has did the opposite.

I love how you throw in there people who have jobs and not working isn't necessary.  That is basically the stance of people like you.  If it doesn't effect me then it sucks for you.  I guess those border agents, TSA agents, Trump security, IRS are all people who are not necessary working for free at the moment.  You are right, Trump should continue this until 2020 costing the country Billions of dollars and nuking the economy.  Yep, that is totally smart Ideal and should have him elected for a second term.  He can proclaim again that he was totally responsible for the Shutdown and it was his glorious strategy to show how weak the Dems are compared to his glorious controlled GOP.  Just think how that worked out for the mid election in the house, because people were so enthralled with his brilliance and the GOP that they were able to maintain control.... opps that did not happen did it.  Oh well, as long as you believe this is a smart strategy, I guess it must be so.