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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - What does MS need to do?

Ajax on 09 April 2008

I don't think that PC-game developers will set much huger staps in the coming years than PS3-developers will set, certainly not on a grand scale

Sony has always said, and it would make sense, that they created the PS3 with a 10 year lifespan in mind

I think you can push enough stats on the PS3 for the coming years

''Hadouken!''

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TheRealMafoo on 09 April 2008
EaglesEye379 said:
The Blu-Ray adoption is not Sonys decision. Its the decision of the Blu-Ray Disc Association, made of 18 board members. Go read it on Wikipedia. In fact, Microsoft can pay to be on that board and thereby getting licensing fees of its own no?

 I have read articles stating the Sony is not willing to release the Blu-ray player manufacturing to Chinese companies just yet, because they know that once they do, the players will become very inexpensive, and Sony will have a hard time selling there's. 

So to some extent (unless all those articles were wrong), Sony has some control over who manufacturers players. 



FaRmLaNd on 09 April 2008

Business decisions aren't made out of spite. Sony will let the next xbox have BR built in.



EaglesEye379 on 09 April 2008
TheRealMafoo said:
EaglesEye379 said:
The Blu-Ray adoption is not Sonys decision. Its the decision of the Blu-Ray Disc Association, made of 18 board members. Go read it on Wikipedia. In fact, Microsoft can pay to be on that board and thereby getting licensing fees of its own no?

I have read articles stating the Sony is not willing to release the Blu-ray player manufacturing to Chinese companies just yet, because they know that once they do, the players will become very inexpensive, and Sony will have a hard time selling there's.

So to some extent (unless all those articles were wrong), Sony has some control over who manufacturers players.

 Whether Sony can limit production or not, based on the evidence below, it doesnt seem like its Sonys decision. I also read that Microsoft has already integrated BD drives for PCs.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu_ray

 Blu-ray Disc was developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association, a group of companies representing consumer electronics, computer hardware, and motion picture production. The standard is covered by several patents belonging to different companies. As of March 2007, a joint licensing agreement for all the relevant patents had not yet been finalized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

The "Blu-ray Disc Founder group" was started in May 2002 by nine leading electronic companies: Sony, Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. Spearheaded by Sony Corporation, on February 19th 2002 the companies announced [2] that they were the "Founders" of the Blu-ray Disc and later changed their name to the "Blu-ray Disc Association" on May 18, 2004 to allow more companies to join their development.



TheRealMafoo on 09 April 2008
FaRmLaNd said:
Business decisions aren't made out of spite. Sony will let the next xbox have BR built in.

It's not spite, it's money. If MS is there biggest threat next generation, you bet your ass they will do one of two things. Fight it being in there, or charge enough money for the license to put games on the disks, and make up the profit.

My guess is they will want something in the range of what MS would make off of each game, and MS will not go for that.

As for the anti-trust, so far Sony has not licensed BD to any companies for the purpose of distributing games. Keeping MS from doing the same thing is not any different.

I am not saying this is how it's going to go down, I am just sating it's not a 100% given that the next xbox will have a Blu-ray drive in it. 



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TheRealMafoo on 09 April 2008
EaglesEye379 said:
TheRealMafoo said:
EaglesEye379 said:
The Blu-Ray adoption is not Sonys decision. Its the decision of the Blu-Ray Disc Association, made of 18 board members. Go read it on Wikipedia. In fact, Microsoft can pay to be on that board and thereby getting licensing fees of its own no?

I have read articles stating the Sony is not willing to release the Blu-ray player manufacturing to Chinese companies just yet, because they know that once they do, the players will become very inexpensive, and Sony will have a hard time selling there's.

So to some extent (unless all those articles were wrong), Sony has some control over who manufacturers players.

 Whether Sony can limit production or not, based on the evidence below, it doesnt seem like its Sonys decision. I also read that Microsoft has already integrated BD drives for PCs.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu_ray

 Blu-ray Disc was developed by the Blu-ray Disc Association, a group of companies representing consumer electronics, computer hardware, and motion picture production. The standard is covered by several patents belonging to different companies. As of March 2007, a joint licensing agreement for all the relevant patents had not yet been finalized.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc_Association

The "Blu-ray Disc Founder group" was started in May 2002 by nine leading electronic companies: Sony, Matsushita, Pioneer, Philips, Thomson, LG Electronics, Hitachi, Sharp, and Samsung. Spearheaded by Sony Corporation, on February 19th 2002 the companies announced [2] that they were the "Founders" of the Blu-ray Disc and later changed their name to the "Blu-ray Disc Association" on May 18, 2004 to allow more companies to join their development.


 How much of the "Association" is controlled by Sony? It might be 51%. Do we know how power is broken up?



SpookyXJ on 09 April 2008
Ail said:
rocketpig said:
TKC-Muzzer said:
rocketpig said:
Ail said:
rocketpig said:
Well right now, it's Crysis. Console gamers are also getting bastardized versions of games like BioShock and Call of Duty 4.

This year, we should see a few PC games that look and play much better on PC than anything on a console. In two more years, the gap will be huge. Shit, most console games can't even run at 1080p. That will be a serious limitation moving forward.

Hmm has there really been serious complains of console owners complaining about how CoD4 or Bioshock play on their consoles compared to how they play on the PC ????? Because I haven't heard them...


Console owners aren't complaining because most of them haven't seen the games run at 60fps locked in the equivalent of a 1080p resolution. BioShock in particular looked quite a bit better on PC. I've only heard my friends talk about CoD4 on PC, never seen it run.


I wish people would stop caomparing consoles and PC's. At the end of the day the percentage of people with rigs good enough to outperform the PS3/360 pales in comparison to the amount of console owners. I am no way paying to constantly to uprgade my system for a few more textures. Consoles reach a larger mass of gamers and offer ease of use and therefore the majority could not really give a stuff if a $2000 system outperforms a $400 system. I am gauranteed when i buy a console game it will work in my machine, when i played on my PC there would always be some stupid problem that would crop up. If you pay more for a graphics card than a games console then you should expect better but as i said the mjaority could not care less.


If you read my posts, I'm talking about technology here and how it will apply to the next generation of consoles. The comparison is only to illustrate that PCs are already ahead of consoles (rather cheaply too, about $600-700) and how that in 2-3 more years, that gap will only widen.

Meaning that by 2010, MS will be able to produce a $300-400 console that will absolutely annihilate the 360 and PS3.


And won't have any third party support aside from PS3 and 360 ports...

Issue is not wether they can do it but wether there will be a demand for it and active support for it from third parties...

Name one third party that is unhappy with this gen and has been quoted as waiting for next gen hardware to be able to put their ideas into the game they want....


I think all third parties would be happy with more ram and currently see it as a limitation. Add in Blue Ray as an optical  medium as it should now become the defacto industry standard along with a hard drive in every SKU(only 1 SKU would be nice). Combine that whith further scaling the current architectures and adding a more cores on a smaller process along with an upgraded gpu with a simular architechture and you'll have something substantialy more powerful thats fully backward compatiable and painless for current deves to transition to. Same goes for PS3 amd Wii. Easy transition for Devs between generations should be something all 3 manufactures should strive for.

Upgrades dont always have to be something completly new to be benificial. 



Qly on 09 April 2008

They need to stop copying everything they see that works



Listen to the voice of reason, then do as I say.

TheRealMafoo on 09 April 2008

I looked it up, and it's hard to tell, but most experts seem to think between 20-30% of BD is owned by Sony. They are possibly #2 behind Panasonic, could even be #3 behind phillips.



TheRealMafoo on 09 April 2008
Qly said:
They need to stop copying everything they see that works

 That's all that MS has ever done, and it's made them the most profitable company in the world. Why would they stop now?