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Forums - Politics Discussion - Texas church shooting leaves many dead (atleast 27).

Frank_kc said:
Mentally sick and gun control is the subject of the discussion since the attacker is none Muslim. Why no one is calling him an American Terrorist? People will say it is not religion related, but the guy attacked a church? How is that not religion related?

American hypocrisy at its best.....

You can't help but wonder if religion was related based on the location, but even if it's not, the fact that this individual decided to murder innocent people, in a church of all places, where you specifically come to thank and pray for life, is really sickening.



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setsunatenshi said:
Frank_kc said:
Mentally sick and gun control is the subject of the discussion since the attacker is none Muslim. Why no one is calling him an American Terrorist? People will say it is not religion related, but the guy attacked a church? How is that not religion related?

American hypocrisy at its best.....

You're guessing here at what people will or will not say.

And there's a difference between a terrorist act and some guy that simply wants to kill a bunch of people.

Terrorist acts have the intention of creating political/societal change through the use of violence. A rando shooting up a church/movie theatre/concert for personal reasons is not an act of terrorism.

Words have meaning, and it has nothing to do with this murderer being muslim or not.

The IRA was a terrorist organization and none of their members was muslim afaik.

So the guy goes into a rampage to kill people because he feels like it... and you wont consider it a terrorist  attack because you believe it should be tied to a political reason? It is the hypocrisy of defining the things the way you see it fit.... (and I know it is how it it defined in WIKI), but who decided so? using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians should be considered a terrorist  attack because it terrorizes civilians regardless of the motive. Wouldnt you be afraid and terrorized if you have been in the middle of something similar? Would you think about he political motive in the middle of this or you just want to survive?

IRA is irrelvant to discussion by the way....



America just feels like a train wreck. Sad.



setsunatenshi said:
                                           

Terrorist acts have the intention of creating political/societal change through the use of violence. A rando shooting up a church/movie theatre/concert for personal reasons is not an act of terrorism.

                               

I agree with this one because it is correct. But I have a question. Let say:

1.  There is a random shooting attack.

2. The shooter is a Muslim

3. But his motives are personal

4. Will he still be labeled as terrorist?



Dota2Gamer said:
setsunatenshi said:
                                           

Terrorist acts have the intention of creating political/societal change through the use of violence. A rando shooting up a church/movie theatre/concert for personal reasons is not an act of terrorism.

                               

I agree with this one because it is correct. But I have a question. Let say:

1.  There is a random shooting attack.

2. The shooter is a Muslim

3. But his motives are personal

4. Will he still be labeled as terrorist?

I'm pretty sure that's what happened in that Orlando shooting. 

Dude is a conservative ISIS follower but was also frequently gay nightclubs for several years and was on gay dating websites? Yeah that doesn't really allign. 

I think he had anger/identity issues.



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Soundwave said:
Dota2Gamer said:
                               

I agree with this one because it is correct. But I have a question. Let say:

1.  There is a random shooting attack.

2. The shooter is a Muslim

3. But his motives are personal

4. Will he still be labeled as terrorist?

I'm pretty sure that's what happened in that Orlando shooting. 

Dude is a conservative ISIS follower but was also frequently gay nightclubs for several years and was on gay dating websites? Yeah that doesn't really allign. 

I think he had anger/identity issues.

But it is a terrorist attack, well at least according to Wiki.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orlando_nightclub_shooting

My point is, given the current climate in the US, it will be hard for any Muslim shooter with personal issues to not be identified as terrorist. While we can't say the reverse to white people.



Aeolus451 said:
ArchangelMadzz said:

The idea of it being made easier is that it will be difficult to prove, due to the nature of the written law and of mental illness that someone is mentally ill. So a lot of time and effort will have to go into barring someone from owning a gun that will likely not happen. 

Not really. If someone is diagnosed by a legit doctor for certain mental illnesses then it should be fairly easy to blackllist them from buying a gun. The whole point is to keep unqualified people from using "you have a mental problem" as a justification to bar normal people from getting a gun. 

People go and get diagnosed because they want help. If someone doesn't want help they go undiagnosed. They walk into a gun store:

 

"History of mental illness?"

"Nope" 

*Searches, finds nothing*

"Alright that'll be..."

 

And as I mentioned a doctor can only give their opinion, when it comes to mental health one doctor may say someone definitely has schizophrenia and another doctor can disagree. There isn't some test that can be done to prove it. 



There's only 2 races: White and 'Political Agenda'
2 Genders: Male and 'Political Agenda'
2 Hairstyles for female characters: Long and 'Political Agenda'
2 Sexualities: Straight and 'Political Agenda'

Peh said:
If the priest had a machinegun, this could've been prevented.
-NRA

Fixed



Frank_kc said:
setsunatenshi said:

You're guessing here at what people will or will not say.

And there's a difference between a terrorist act and some guy that simply wants to kill a bunch of people.

Terrorist acts have the intention of creating political/societal change through the use of violence. A rando shooting up a church/movie theatre/concert for personal reasons is not an act of terrorism.

Words have meaning, and it has nothing to do with this murderer being muslim or not.

The IRA was a terrorist organization and none of their members was muslim afaik.

So the guy goes into a rampage to kill people because he feels like it... and you wont consider it a terrorist  attack because you believe it should be tied to a political reason? It is the hypocrisy of defining the things the way you see it fit.... (and I know it is how it it defined in WIKI), but who decided so? using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians should be considered a terrorist  attack because it terrorizes civilians regardless of the motive. Wouldnt you be afraid and terrorized if you have been in the middle of something similar? Would you think about he political motive in the middle of this or you just want to survive?

IRA is irrelvant to discussion by the way....

 

You are confusing the real meaning of the word terrorism, to the new age use of this word that basically labels everything a specific group of people disapproves of as terrorism.

Terrorism IS only when the goal is to act some specific political or ideological change through the use of violence. Governments usually label as terrorists all kinds of groups that are fighting them, though in my personal oppinion, if these groups go after soft targets, then yes, I would label them terrorists. If they go after military or government targets I would rather call them enemy combatents.

Terrorist acts have a goal they want to achieve. A rando just shooting people in a crowd with no specific ideological goal only makes him a mental case (no matter how scary that thought could personally be)

The IRA was labeled for several years as a terrorist organization. How is that irrelevant? They wanted political change and used violence to achieve their goal. That is terrorism.

 

On a last note, you seem to be making some sort of emotional argument here, which missed the whole point of when something is or isn't terrorism.



Dota2Gamer said:
setsunatenshi said:
                                           

Terrorist acts have the intention of creating political/societal change through the use of violence. A rando shooting up a church/movie theatre/concert for personal reasons is not an act of terrorism.

                               

I agree with this one because it is correct. But I have a question. Let say:

1.  There is a random shooting attack.

2. The shooter is a Muslim

3. But his motives are personal

4. Will he still be labeled as terrorist?

You would need to elaborate on the point 3 for be to answer that.

If he personally feels like he will further the objectives of some sort of clash of civilizations between muslims vs non muslims. Then yes, I would say that's terrorism.

If he personally feels like the upstairs neighbours are too loud and picks up a gun and shoots all of them... well then no... he's just some crazy violent fuck who decided to commit murder. Not a terrorist.