Forums - Sales Discussion - UK Sales Chart, Week Ending 21-Oct-2017, Gran Turismo Tops (~80K)

Flilix said:
tbone51 said:

Can we do the same for MH5? 

The smart thing about GT Sports and MH World is that they can still change their minds afterwards. Even if GT Sports was really intended to be GT7, they could still announce a real GT7 in two years and act like GTS was just an unimportant prologue.

Same thing for Monster Hunter. They sort of said that it's indeed MH5, but they didn't really make a clear statement about it. If World flops, they can still announce MH5 for Switch next year.

I agree with this, its a safe way to actually save their ass (weirdly) by giving the franchise "another shot".

 

I just pointed mhw to him because he was going on saying its mh5 but when it comes to gt sport (in a very similar situation) its not gt7. Cant have it like that (use reasoning for one and throw it away for the other)



Around the Network
Errorist76 said:
Teeqoz said:

This game released in 2017. It should be compared to it's contemporary releases, not games that released almost a decade or more ago (FM3 released in 2009, GT3 released in 2001). FM7 is miles ahead in terms of content, despite having a shorter dev cycle.

It does have a substantial online mode though. So substantial that they saw it fit to make almost the whole game rely on being online. And with no proper campaign.

I'm sure the gameplay is the best it has been, but that doesn't automatically make it the best game. Not in my eyes at least. I think PD/Sony can and should do better, and I hope this spurs them to do so.

Shorter development cycle?! Now you gotta be kidding me.

Forza 7 is just an updated Forza 6 with all payed DLCs which just was an updated Forza 5 with all payed DLCs...Which started development after Forza 4. Like 6 years ago.

pCARS 2 is an updated PCARS which started development like what, 7 years ago?!

 

Polyphony deliberately scrapped all the old shit and started again from 0.

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?!

What is it with people mentioning games I never did? Where did Project Cars come from?

Forza 7 released two years after Forza 6, ie. a two year dev cycle. Of course they reuse assets but you might as well say Uncharted 4 had a 10 year dev cycle because it's on the same engine as Uncharted 1....



Errorist76 said:
Teeqoz said:

This game released in 2017. It should be compared to it's contemporary releases, not games that released almost a decade or more ago (FM3 released in 2009, GT3 released in 2001). FM7 is miles ahead in terms of content, despite having a shorter dev cycle.

It does have a substantial online mode though. So substantial that they saw it fit to make almost the whole game rely on being online. And with no proper campaign.

I'm sure the gameplay is the best it has been, but that doesn't automatically make it the best game. Not in my eyes at least. I think PD/Sony can and should do better, and I hope this spurs them to do so.

Shorter development cycle?! Now you gotta be kidding me.

Forza 7 is just an updated Forza 6 with all payed DLCs which just was an updated Forza 5 with all payed DLCs...Which started development after Forza 4. Like 6 years ago.

pCARS 2 is an updated PCARS which started development like what, 7 years ago?!

 

Polyphony deliberately scrapped all the old shit and started again from 0.

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?! Especially since the attention to detail in GTS is clearly above the competition.

if you don’t believe it, just watch Digital Foundry’s take on it.

exactly



”The environment where PlayStation wins is best for this industry” (Jack Tretton, 2009)

tbone51 said:
ZODIARKrebirth said:
wonder if gran turismo will have some legs

Im notntrying to be that guy but probably not. Reception is bad. Going by others and even user gribble here, the whole online only thing is killing it

i agree, and don't understand why they have done this, maybe future updates will change this. but even if they do it, don't know if it will be to late



Teeqoz said:
DonFerrari said:

Still don't get where you got the FM5 part from. You were the first to mention it. But for what it's worth, the PS4 is way more successful than the PS3, while the XBO is less successful than the Xbox 360. So of course I'd expect the PS4 installments of GT to sell more than the PS3 installments, and the XBO installments of Forza to sell less than the 360 installments.

We are talking UK here right? The X1 in UK isn't doing much worse than X360. FM5 comes from your assumption that just being a new first installment on a platform that is doing good put it at higher sales.

As for the second point, first of all, GT6 hasn't sold 6 million, it has sold a bit more than 5 (5.17 million). And that is of course a high number, but.... GT5 sold 11.95 million. So GT6 was down over 56% from GT5. Now, for GT6, I can see good explanations (ie. launching at the same time as the PS4), but for GT Sport to sell as little - on the PS4 no less? That isn't good regardless of how you put it.

I haven't said GTS selling 6M is good considering other GTs, you said it is a bomb, is it a bomb?

Okay so you admit that GT Sport is lacking in content compared to its competitors, but you think it's justified because it's the first GT on PS4. But once again, GT Sport isn't arriving at the same time as FM5, it's arriving 4 years later. 

Nope, I agree it focused in a different direction and so if you are locking at content where they didn't put their focus there is less, just that. I didn't said I think it's justifiable because it's the first, I explained the other guy reasoning. But sure being the first game all content is new and the competitors that are on 2nd and 3rd iteraction of a genre that adds up will have an easier time putting more into it.

I will do the same questioning I done to azzanation. Where are your posts criticizing FM5 to release with little content compared to GT6 that launched close to it.

But if you really don't think Sony can and should to better, more power to you. I disagree though.

I didn't said SONY (even more because it's PD) shoudln't or couldn't do better. You are reading a lot of not speaked things on this discussion but shifting your own goals.

Errorist76 said:
Teeqoz said:

This game released in 2017. It should be compared to it's contemporary releases, not games that released almost a decade or more ago (FM3 released in 2009, GT3 released in 2001). FM7 is miles ahead in terms of content, despite having a shorter dev cycle.

It does have a substantial online mode though. So substantial that they saw it fit to make almost the whole game rely on being online. And with no proper campaign.

I'm sure the gameplay is the best it has been, but that doesn't automatically make it the best game. Not in my eyes at least. I think PD/Sony can and should do better, and I hope this spurs them to do so.

Shorter development cycle?! Now you gotta be kidding me.

Forza 7 is just an updated Forza 6 with all payed DLCs which just was an updated Forza 5 with all payed DLCs...Which started development after Forza 4. Like 6 years ago.

pCARS 2 is an updated PCARS which started development like what, 7 years ago?!

Polyphony deliberately scrapped all the old shit and started again from 0.

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?! Especially since the attention to detail in GTS is clearly above the competition.

if you don’t believe it, just watch Digital Foundry’s take on it.

Also don't forget to put that they decided to make the engine overblowed with models that doesn't run on PS4Pro, colors that doesn't show on HDR10 and other megalomaniac Kazunorisms.

Also I need to point out that PD last official headcount was around 140 people (and now they have decided to even do the art and marketing internally) while Turn 10 have been seem to have over 300 employees. And considering the amount of games released I have little reason to suspect Turn 10 have something between 2-3x more people in the team.

Teeqoz said:
Errorist76 said:

Shorter development cycle?! Now you gotta be kidding me.

Forza 7 is just an updated Forza 6 with all payed DLCs which just was an updated Forza 5 with all payed DLCs...Which started development after Forza 4. Like 6 years ago.

pCARS 2 is an updated PCARS which started development like what, 7 years ago?!

 

Polyphony deliberately scrapped all the old shit and started again from 0.

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?!

What is it with people mentioning games I never did? Where did Project Cars come from?

Forza 7 released two years after Forza 6, ie. a two year dev cycle. Of course they reuse assets but you might as well say Uncharted 4 had a 10 year dev cycle because it's on the same engine as Uncharted 1....

From the questioning of competitors having more games. He reasoned why FM and PC have more.

FM7 launched 2 years after, but it isn't reussing as in UC4, it's as in keep all old content and add some and call it a new game.

As far as I know UC4 doesn't use the same engine as UC1 (one of the reasons it took longer to dev) and even if it used, the history, models, textures, almost everything is different from all previous UCs.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Around the Network
Teeqoz said:
Errorist76 said:

Shorter development cycle?! Now you gotta be kidding me.

Forza 7 is just an updated Forza 6 with all payed DLCs which just was an updated Forza 5 with all payed DLCs...Which started development after Forza 4. Like 6 years ago.

pCARS 2 is an updated PCARS which started development like what, 7 years ago?!

 

Polyphony deliberately scrapped all the old shit and started again from 0.

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?!

What is it with people mentioning games I never did? Where did Project Cars come from?

Forza 7 released two years after Forza 6, ie. a two year dev cycle. Of course they reuse assets but you might as well say Uncharted 4 had a 10 year dev cycle because it's on the same engine as Uncharted 1....

Bad analogy from your side. If you had played Forza 6 and 7 you’d know they’re essentially the same game, just downgraded in some areas and upgraded in others.

..just like GT6 compared to GT5 was, and sales were going down respectively. The same happened to Forza 7 now. GT made the necessary changes to be able to survive in the future.



MichealJetli said:
flashfire926 said:

If you're talking about UK, Forza horizon 3 is easily gonna beat the other two.

Worldwide since Switch install base is too small for UK market

And the PS4 library is too big for such a comparison.



DonFerrari said:

Why are people behaving so unreasonably?! Especially since the attention to detail in GTS is clearly above the competition.

if you don’t believe it, just watch Digital Foundry’s take on it.

Also don't forget to put that they decided to make the engine overblowed with models that doesn't run on PS4Pro, colors that doesn't show on HDR10 and other megalomaniac Kazunorisms.

Also I need to point out that PD last official headcount was around 140 people (and now they have decided to even do the art and marketing internally) while Turn 10 have been seem to have over 300 employees. And considering the amount of games released I have little reason to suspect Turn 10 have something between 2-3x more people in the team.

 

They are 200 people strong now, as far as I know. Kaz said it in one of the documentaries about him and the game.

..your point still stands.

Turn 10 even outsource the vehicle creation, PD do them all in-house.



Errorist76 said:
DonFerrari said:

Also don't forget to put that they decided to make the engine overblowed with models that doesn't run on PS4Pro, colors that doesn't show on HDR10 and other megalomaniac Kazunorisms.

Also I need to point out that PD last official headcount was around 140 people (and now they have decided to even do the art and marketing internally) while Turn 10 have been seem to have over 300 employees. And considering the amount of games released I have little reason to suspect Turn 10 have something between 2-3x more people in the team.

 

They are 200 people strong now, as far as I know. Kaz said it in one of the documentaries about him and the game.

..your point still stands.

Turn 10 even outsource the vehicle creation, PD do them all in-house.

Happy to know they have basically doubled the studio from the time of GT5 (they gone from 100-110 to 140 close to GT5 launch), but it is still a little small for all crazy Kaz dreams.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

tbone51 said:
Kerotan said:

Imo we will see a GT7 in a few years.  Time will tell who's right. 

Can we do the same for MH5? 

Well mh5 is a massive improvement for the series so it's harder to apply the logic but feel free too if you want. I won't stop you.