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Forums - General Discussion - The prophecy of John, aka Apocalypse, aka End of the World.

vivster said:
So what you're saying is that the Apocalypse will never happen? You should have a talk with King Bob-omb.

I believe the events of Revelation will indeed happen. But I have to admit there is a lot of stuff that has to happen or change so the pieces fall into place.

Specially tech to open portals, as I do not expect any of the event happen like magical special effects in movies. But obeying the order that is in place, somehow.

It could come about as an alien invasion, but instead of coming from another planet, the monsters would come from another realm, dimension.



My grammar errors are justified by the fact that I am a brazilian living in Brazil. I am also very stupid.

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Revelations is incredibly tough to understand. I'm not sure if John even understood it as he was writing it. Dragons and horns and beasts with many heads and wings, etc., etc. It is interesting to read people's interpretations of it, though.



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WagnerPaiva said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:

Every generation has wanted to be the last and be special and unique. The Bible claims the Earth,  the solar system, the stars and the entire universe were invented by God in 7 days, only 6,000 years ago. The Bible can not be used to make future predictions. No one can see into the future. Doomsday cults pushing end times prophesy nonsense will continue to brainwash gullible uneducated people. 

A lot of christian scholars, like Willian Lane Craig and John Lennox, think the Bible DO NOT state the 6k years period.

I, in other hand, right now, believe the young Earth could be a reality. As far as I know the fossils and oil reserves could be formed in the Noah´s Flood.

However, I am not entirely sure, there are problems with the datation methods like Carbon 14 and others, but I could be wrong on this one. 

My favorite authors do not agree with the young Earth timeline, I still think it is totally possible.

However, this is one of those things we will only know for sure after we die, Pascal wager kind of deal once again.

I do agree that the darwinian timetable is the widespread opinion and I know for sure how ridiculous it sounds to believe in 6k timeline. But, well, even more stupid things were proved truth.

This is one of these "I think this, but I could very well be wrong" kind of deals, really.

It is like when I think a girl likes me, but I can only be sure if I ask her. Sometimes not even asking. Many girls say they do not like you out of nervousness. Happened to me before...

Surely you do not believe that a 600 year old man built an ark in the middle of the desert and managed to get two of every animal. Yes this includes penguins. A man in the Middle East gathered penguins. 

Also, there is no evidence that proves that the earth is only 6,000 years old. On the contrary, there is plenty of evidence that proves that the earth is far more older. The oldest fossil discovered is approximately 4.2 billion years old.



epicurean said:
Revelations is incredibly tough to understand. I'm not sure if John even understood it as he was writing it. Dragons and horns and beasts with many heads and wings, etc., etc. It is interesting to read people's interpretations of it, though.

He understood it because it's all pretty much analogy.  That it's talking about Rome is basically spelled out.  It says in Revelation 17:9 that "the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated."

"Accordingly, the woman sits on the seven-headed beast as a symbol of her "seven hills" -- the seven hills of Rome. The woman is the city of Roman, here depicted as the persecutor of Christians. Then it says that the seven heads are also seven kings. And we can read from its cryptic terminology the references to the Emperors of Rome. The "five fallen" refer to the five emperors who have died: Augustus (29 BCE - 14 CE), Tiberius (14-37 CE), Gaius (37-41), Claudius (41-54) and Nero (54-68).http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/revelation/white.html



ResidentToxy said:
o_O.Q said:

 

i don't believe the bible is supposed to be taken absolutely literally... i think that under proper interpretations the core values are beneficial for people to adhere to...

for example i believe the story with regards to adam and eve is the story of man evolving from primitive to modern man and the consequences of gaining self awareness

i don't think "the flood" was really about water levels rising and everything being physically destroyed besides an ark, but about what happens when societies become too corrupt

only dumb people would think that story is literally about a talking snake or really about a physical flood imo and even dumber people would dismiss it out of hand without further investigation to figure out what is actually being said and why it had such a profound impact on society...

 

but lets just watch and see where society goes to when the core values are thrown away and a relativistic mindset takes over

 

anyone who's looking objectively can already see that things are starting to unravel

The bible is supposedly the word of god. So if you cannot interpret what it says literally, that means that the word of god is flawed. If people have to constantly twist the bible to mean what they want it to mean, they may as well write their own book that contains the meanings that are better suited their own agenda. Which they essentially do, considering the dominant religions are Abrahamic. 

You do not need religion to have morals. Religious people will state otherwise because they have a god-complex. They are better than everyone else, including other religious people. The only exception is if they believe in the same religion, and they interpret said religion the same way. Otherwise, they believe that a loving god condemns everyone to burn for eternity for not believing in him. 
If god were real, all god would have to do is reveal him or herself. 

The concept of religion is to have faith in a psychopath. The psychopath never reveals themself to the world, yet the world must believe in and love this psychopath. If not, the psychopath will both condemn and torture them for eternity. 

People educating themselves and showing more compassion towards others will benefit society. Whereas believing in Doomsday theories and fairy tales will just lead to stagnation.

"The bible is supposedly the word of god. So if you cannot interpret what it says literally, that means that the word of god is flawed"

 

i don't really believe that the bible is the product of a god, i don't completely dismiss that idea because i just don't know, i think its more likely that it came about as the result of repeated observations of human behavior over a long period of time, out of which certain conclusions were made

 

but regardless, what you've posted here is not true, information can be encoded in different ways for different purposes, an example being the fact that right now our communications are encoded into bit streams and sent over miles as electrical pulses 

 

"You do not need religion to have morals."

 

true

 

" Otherwise, they believe that a loving god condemns everyone to burn for eternity for not believing in him. "

 

many do and many don't, its about as silly as the claim atheists make that if we could just get rid of all religion then there would be universal peace

 

it shows they don't have the slightest clue about what the real issue is and that is that people all by themselves without religion are limited with regards to their perception of the world and it is that limitation that causes conflict, not religion

 

"The concept of religion is to have faith in a psychopath"

 

no it degenerates into that very often, i'll totally concede that, but no the core principle of religion is to abide by principles that transcend the limited scope of human perception such as fear or love

 

something else that you are missing here is that psychopaths can move herds of people even more easily without religion, because then all they have to do is stroke the ego of their targets, at least with religion they have to tip toe around the core principles and bend and distort them

 

"People educating themselves and showing more compassion towards others will benefit society."

 

yes, if only people were entirely rational and always worked towards bettering themselves and their community



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I'll believe this when it happens.



o_O.Q said:
ResidentToxy said:

The bible is supposedly the word of god. So if you cannot interpret what it says literally, that means that the word of god is flawed. If people have to constantly twist the bible to mean what they want it to mean, they may as well write their own book that contains the meanings that are better suited their own agenda. Which they essentially do, considering the dominant religions are Abrahamic. 

You do not need religion to have morals. Religious people will state otherwise because they have a god-complex. They are better than everyone else, including other religious people. The only exception is if they believe in the same religion, and they interpret said religion the same way. Otherwise, they believe that a loving god condemns everyone to burn for eternity for not believing in him. 
If god were real, all god would have to do is reveal him or herself. 

The concept of religion is to have faith in a psychopath. The psychopath never reveals themself to the world, yet the world must believe in and love this psychopath. If not, the psychopath will both condemn and torture them for eternity. 

People educating themselves and showing more compassion towards others will benefit society. Whereas believing in Doomsday theories and fairy tales will just lead to stagnation.

"The bible is supposedly the word of god. So if you cannot interpret what it says literally, that means that the word of god is flawed"

 

i don't really believe that the bible is the product of a god, i don't completely dismiss that idea because i just don't know, i think its more likely that it came about as the result of repeated observations of human behavior over a long period of time, out of which certain conclusions were made

 

but regardless, what you've posted here is not true, information can be encoded in different ways for different purposes, an example being the fact that right now our communications are encoded into bit streams and sent over miles as electrical pulses 

 

"You do not need religion to have morals."

 

true

 

" Otherwise, they believe that a loving god condemns everyone to burn for eternity for not believing in him. "

 

many do and many don't, its about as silly as the claim atheists make that if we could just get rid of all religion then there would be universal peace

 

it shows they don't have the slightest clue about what the real issue is and that is that people all by themselves without religion are limited with regards to their perception of the world and it is that limitation that causes conflict, not religion

 

"The concept of religion is to have faith in a psychopath"

 

no it degenerates into that very often, i'll totally concede that, but no the core principle of religion is to abide by principles that transcend the limited scope of human perception such as fear or love

 

something else that you are missing here is that psychopaths can move herds of people even more easily without religion, because then all they have to do is stroke the ego of their targets, at least with religion they have to tip toe around the core principles and bend and distort them

 

"People educating themselves and showing more compassion towards others will benefit society."

 

yes, if only people were entirely rational and always worked towards bettering themselves and their community

You make some very valid points, however, I will have to disagree with the comparison of information being decoded differently. Yes we are communicating through different means, despite this, if you interpreted what I was saying to be something else that benefitted you, this would be twisting or misrepresenting my words. If you were to say that you interpret what I am saying as a basis for challenging the government, this wouldn't be correct. 

My words are clearly targeted at religion (primarily Christianity due to the topic created). Sure you could argue that a government that endorses a particular religion is problematic. However that would stem from a different argument and not the one I was initially discussing.

If I said "anyone who betrays me will die" and if people interpreted that as "I love you" - that is the sort of misinterpretation that occurs with religious books. The means of communicating those words online or in book is irrelevant. 

 

Otherwise I would say that you make some very valud points. Apologies for not discussing them in depth.



Op, do you think John of Patmos is the same John the Evangelist?



pokoko said:
epicurean said:
Revelations is incredibly tough to understand. I'm not sure if John even understood it as he was writing it. Dragons and horns and beasts with many heads and wings, etc., etc. It is interesting to read people's interpretations of it, though.

He understood it because it's all pretty much analogy.  That it's talking about Rome is basically spelled out.  It says in Revelation 17:9 that "the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated."

"Accordingly, the woman sits on the seven-headed beast as a symbol of her "seven hills" -- the seven hills of Rome. The woman is the city of Roman, here depicted as the persecutor of Christians. Then it says that the seven heads are also seven kings. And we can read from its cryptic terminology the references to the Emperors of Rome. The "five fallen" refer to the five emperors who have died: Augustus (29 BCE - 14 CE), Tiberius (14-37 CE), Gaius (37-41), Claudius (41-54) and Nero (54-68).http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/revelation/white.html

Having never read the bible, it's obvious that he was talking about Rome, in the time and place that this was written. 



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palou said:
pokoko said:

He understood it because it's all pretty much analogy.  That it's talking about Rome is basically spelled out.  It says in Revelation 17:9 that "the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated."

"Accordingly, the woman sits on the seven-headed beast as a symbol of her "seven hills" -- the seven hills of Rome. The woman is the city of Roman, here depicted as the persecutor of Christians. Then it says that the seven heads are also seven kings. And we can read from its cryptic terminology the references to the Emperors of Rome. The "five fallen" refer to the five emperors who have died: Augustus (29 BCE - 14 CE), Tiberius (14-37 CE), Gaius (37-41), Claudius (41-54) and Nero (54-68).http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/apocalypse/revelation/white.html

Having never read the bible, it's obvious that he was talking about Rome, in the time and place that this was written. 

The book is commonly dated to the end of Domitian at 95 AD so there would be more than 5 fallen emperors.