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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Metroid: Samus Returns is FANTASTIC so What's Next for 2D Metroid?

 

What should Metroid 5 be?

2D 38 26.95%
 
2.5D 40 28.37%
 
3D 25 17.73%
 
4D 38 26.95%
 
Total:141
Snoorlax said:

Remember before Rare joined Nintendo? They were good, after joining Nintendo? They became legendary, after joining Microsoft? They became shit.

Rare isn't "shit". They still make solid games that are still actually enjoyable, I feel you just took the opportunity to attack the developer.

I mean, they are not as great as they once were mind you as allot of the people left the company... But games like Kameo, Viva Pinata and hell, even Nuts and Bolts were enjoyable.
With that, your statement doesn't change the fact that RARE provided input into probably one of the best fighters of this console generation, but also doesn't get to take credit for it as they aren't the developer.

Hynad said:

@bolded: Totally agree.

As for the re-release part, something along those lines would be glorious:



I would be all for a visual update, if it is a visual update of the base game. Aka. A "Remaster" but with everything left alone.
StarCraft: Remastered is the perfect example of a 2D game being massively improved visually, but still playing identically.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

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Pemalite said:

Hynad said:

@bolded: Totally agree.

As for the re-release part, something along those lines would be glorious:



I would be all for a visual update, if it is a visual update of the base game. Aka. A "Remaster" but with everything left alone.
StarCraft: Remastered is the perfect example of a 2D game being massively improved visually, but still playing identically.

As I said, I'm with you on the "that game is perfect" part.

So of course, all I'd want is a visual update and nothing more. Super Metroid is the best game ever made in my book.



Snoorlax said:
MTZehvor said:

I won't disagree with the emphasis on show vs. tell, although I'd question your holding up Fusion, by far the most "tell" heavy Metroid game besides Other M, as an example of the concept. With that said, I think it would largely depend on what story they want to tell, and, to reference this back to the original point of the conversation, if it's going to be focus on the rebel Chozo faction, then the game is probably going to require a significant amount of telling to satisfy those of us who are more interested in the series' lore. While official 2D Metroid games have never included scanning before, there's a great example of it how it can be implemented well in AM2R, and while I do prefer SR slightly to AM2R, I think the scans are a major advantage that the fan game has over the official one.

I think the ideal scenario if they choose to pursue that storyline would be a very Prime-esque approach to narrative structure, regardless of whether it's 2D or 3D. Have a game with a relative easy to follow storyline on the surface, with optional ways to sate the curiosity of those who really enjoy the series' lore and want to see it expanded upon. Scanning is the best method I've seen so far of this sort of optional storytelling, but I'd be open to different ideas if I thought they were capable of expounding upon a similar amount of backstory.

Fair enough we all have our preferences however i'm sure most people remember Fusion because of it's "tell heavy" plot (and linearity) whereas pretty much nobody talks about Prime's story. One of the main reasons Metroid Dread is so desired because of the plot, we want to know how Samus' story continues so Fusion actually succeeded by ending on such a cliffhanger with is storytelling the real problem was it's forced linearity, i really don't mind linearity especially not in Fusion since it's still an awesome game but it could have used less handholding like SR.

If they fix that and continue the story Metroid Dread would be perfect.

While people do talk about Fusion's plot, and in particular how it would jump to a Metroid Dread, it's worth noting that the part that is consistently discussed is what is shown in the game; i.e. Samus telling the Federation to go fuck itself and blowing up the BSL. From my experience, no one cares much about the part of the game that's just "told" to the player, i.e. Samus' reflections on Adam, or Adam's long, droning speeches about whatever was next up on the kill list. Additionally, the end of the game winds up being a hot point of discussion because it is a cliffhanger, and, more notably, a 15 year old cliffhanger that still has shown no signs of being resolved. It's going to be a major talking point among the fanbase just because it's been such an absurdly long time. 

As for "nobody talks about Prime's story," if you were around the fanbase at the time, the cliffhanger that followed Prime 1's ending was also a major talking point until the announcement of Echoes. Prime's story isn't discussed all that consistently nowadays because, well, all the gaps are pretty much filled in. There isn't a lot left to discuss; we know the story and there aren't any major mysteries that can really be speculated on. Corruption's cliffhanger was a pretty common talking point too until Federation Force revealed that it didn't mean anything; at least, not immediately. Wait for about a year or so, and Sylux will probably become the most popular talking point as we get closer to Prime 4.

TL;DR: The type of story (Prime vs. 2D) doesn't really make a difference as to whether the story is more or less talked about; it's a matter of whether there's stuff left open for discussion/speculation. The one exception to this is something like Other M where the story is so atrociously bad it will garner discussion for years to come.



I've 100% the game, and you must do it, because you unlock a pretty interesting (and really unexpected and surprising, at least for me) bit of information, that I came here to comment XD.

The 2d memory was precisely what caught me off guard. I'm not sure what we're supposed to see, but it's that a rebel Chozo faction or what? Or maybe another race which came to help the Chozo in the SR388 planet with the Metroid menace and afterwards they rebel agains the Chozo? I thought the Chozo were all good guys, and this illustration was dope because of that. This was pretty interesting, and I can't wait to see how this is going to develop in the next games. Also, that 2D/10 text... Are they hinting to a new Metroid 2D game revolving around that villain? HYPE!



mZuzek said:
Volterra_90 said:

I've 100% the game, and you must do it, because you unlock a pretty interesting (and really unexpected and surprising, at least for me) bit of information, that I came here to comment XD.

The 2d memory was precisely what caught me off guard. I'm not sure what we're supposed to see, but is that a rebel Chozo faction or what? Or maybe another race which came to help the Chozo in the SR388 planet with the Metroid menace and afterwards they rebel agains the Chozo? I thought the Chozo were all good guys, and this illustration was dope because of that. This was pretty interesting, and I can't wait to see how this is going to develop in the next games. Also, that 2D/10 text... Are they hinting to a new Metroid 2D game revolving around that villain? HYPE!

It definitely seems to be the case. Having a sentient villain in a Metroid game, and a Chozo nonetheless, well... it has a lot of potential to go wrong, that's for sure, but if they manage to get it right, that would be the most awesome thing ever - besides the way they bring that picture up really does feel like they already have something planned up their sleeves. From what I understand, I think the Chozo that were on SR388 asked for help to escape the planet, and whatever Chozo leader that came to "rescue" them had other ideas (probably pissed off at their failed mission). I'm just so hyped anyway - the Chozo were always depicted as such a peaceful, benevolent species, so to finally see one alive in a game would already be a huge deal, but making them a villain would be just insane!

Yeah, I'm truly hyped about where does this plot twist can lead the franchise. It has a tremendous ammount of potential, and it'd be totally ground-breaking for a Metroid game. A sentient villain, and, a Chozo, which is more surprising. I guess that the reveal was teased because they have something in store for the next 2D Metroid. At least, I hope so. And a violent Chozo? I wouldn't possibly think that this was possible, I thought they were the most peaceful race in the entire galaxy XD. I honestly screamed at that revelation. 



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I just want the plot to move forward.Metroid is one of the few nintendo franchises in what the plot contains some relevance(and it's actually a pretty decent plot,when it's done without dialogue).And i want new planets to explore.Zebes and SR388 are done,time to go somewhere else.

As for artstyle,2d sprites all day.But i'm ok with 2.5d.It worked really well in Samus returns



There's not really a thing as 2.5 dimensions.



I describe myself as a little dose of toxic masculinity.

Jumpin said:
There's not really a thing as 2.5 dimensions.

True, but its an accepted way to call games with 2D gameplay made with 3D graphics, language economy.



Volterra_90 said:

Was that Meta Ridley from Prime? Is it the first time a 2D Metroid game makes a reference to the Prime franchise? What an epic fight nevertheless.

I know Prime fans get offended by this but i don't think the Prime game take place in the same timeline as the 2D games.

They're spinoffs but yeah that "final boss" fight was epic though it wasn't really neccessary imho but on the other hand the Queen Metroid fight was kinda lackluster. AM2R certaintly handled that part much better.

Pemalite said:
Snoorlax said:

Remember before Rare joined Nintendo? They were good, after joining Nintendo? They became legendary, after joining Microsoft? They became shit.

Rare isn't "shit". They still make solid games that are still actually enjoyable, I feel you just took the opportunity to attack the developer.

I mean, they are not as great as they once were mind you as allot of the people left the company... But games like Kameo, Viva Pinata and hell, even Nuts and Bolts were enjoyable.
With that, your statement doesn't change the fact that RARE provided input into probably one of the best fighters of this console generation, but also doesn't get to take credit for it as they aren't the developer.

Why would i attack them, i'm just calling them out for their mediocrity over the past 2 decades what successful game franchise they created was really only Kinect Sports and even that was a knock off of Wii Sports and it's already died off.

MTZehvor said
Snoorlax said:

Fair enough we all have our preferences however i'm sure most people remember Fusion because of it's "tell heavy" plot (and linearity) whereas pretty much nobody talks about Prime's story. One of the main reasons Metroid Dread is so desired because of the plot, we want to know how Samus' story continues so Fusion actually succeeded by ending on such a cliffhanger with is storytelling the real problem was it's forced linearity, i really don't mind linearity especially not in Fusion since it's still an awesome game but it could have used less handholding like SR.

If they fix that and continue the story Metroid Dread would be perfect.

While people do talk about Fusion's plot, and in particular how it would jump to a Metroid Dread, it's worth noting that the part that is consistently discussed is what is shown in the game; i.e. Samus telling the Federation to go fuck itself and blowing up the BSL. From my experience, no one cares much about the part of the game that's just "told" to the player, i.e. Samus' reflections on Adam, or Adam's long, droning speeches about whatever was next up on the kill list. Additionally, the end of the game winds up being a hot point of discussion because it is a cliffhanger, and, more notably, a 15 year old cliffhanger that still has shown no signs of being resolved. It's going to be a major talking point among the fanbase just because it's been such an absurdly long time. 

As for "nobody talks about Prime's story," if you were around the fanbase at the time, the cliffhanger that followed Prime 1's ending was also a major talking point until the announcement of Echoes. Prime's story isn't discussed all that consistently nowadays because, well, all the gaps are pretty much filled in. There isn't a lot left to discuss; we know the story and there aren't any major mysteries that can really be speculated on. Corruption's cliffhanger was a pretty common talking point too until Federation Force revealed that it didn't mean anything; at least, not immediately. Wait for about a year or so, and Sylux will probably become the most popular talking point as we get closer to Prime 4.

TL;DR: The type of story (Prime vs. 2D) doesn't really make a difference as to whether the story is more or less talked about; it's a matter of whether there's stuff left open for discussion/speculation. The one exception to this is something like Other M where the story is so atrociously bad it will garner discussion for years to come.

I was around at the Prime fanbase, of course they would talk about what the sequel would be about and also the hint of that Hunter's spaceship at the end of Prime 3 gave a lot of speculation yet still, nobody really talks about the Prime games for their story because it just isn't as developed like in other games like in Zelda or even Mario.

Prime 3 tried to tell a Halo like space opera and it didn't make me care one bit about any of the characters other than Samus and Ridley. Fusion, the intro of Super and Other M makes clear why Samus is on her mission and what or who is important to her. The Prime games just start and end within their own world without making any connections to other games other than the original which barely has any story to begin with. You could say theyre just open ended and can fit anywhere depending on the player's interpretation.

Say whatever you want about Other M but, believe it or not, its thanks to Other M that Fusion got recognised for it's brilliance and the whole "canonicity" got taken more seriously even though it was controversial and "divided the fanbase" which in reality has always been a mess of community. Fusion finally found it's audience even though it's still has a lot of people in the fanbase who don't like it but compared to how despised it was, it sure took it's time to get the attention it deserved but it finally got there and the interest in the series' chronology was revived. Now im just waiting for Metroid 5.

Volterra_90 said:

I've 100% the game, and you must do it, because you unlock a pretty interesting (and really unexpected and surprising, at least for me) bit of information, that I came here to comment XD.

The 2d memory was precisely what caught me off guard. I'm not sure what we're supposed to see, but it's that a rebel Chozo faction or what? Or maybe another race which came to help the Chozo in the SR388 planet with the Metroid menace and afterwards they rebel agains the Chozo? I thought the Chozo were all good guys, and this illustration was dope because of that. This was pretty interesting, and I can't wait to see how this is going to develop in the next games. Also, that 2D/10 text... Are they hinting to a new Metroid 2D game revolving around that villain? HYPE!

i completed the game 100% and i was actually more surprised by the epic final boss fight, but th memories were interesting. 

Finale said:
I just want the plot to move forward.Metroid is one of the few nintendo franchises in what the plot contains some relevance(and it's actually a pretty decent plot,when it's done without dialogue).And i want new planets to explore.Zebes and SR388 are done,time to go somewhere else.

As for artstyle,2d sprites all day.But i'm ok with 2.5d.It worked really well in Samus returns

agreed

Jumpin said:
There's not really a thing as 2.5 dimensions.

i bet you voted 4D



Snoorlax said:
Volterra_90 said:

Was that Meta Ridley from Prime? Is it the first time a 2D Metroid game makes a reference to the Prime franchise? What an epic fight nevertheless.

I know Prime fans get offended by this but i don't think the Prime game take place in the same timeline as the 2D games.

They're spinoffs but yeah that "final boss" fight was epic though it wasn't really neccessary imho but on the other hand the Queen Metroid fight was kinda lackluster. AM2R certaintly handled that part much better.

MTZehvor said

While people do talk about Fusion's plot, and in particular how it would jump to a Metroid Dread, it's worth noting that the part that is consistently discussed is what is shown in the game; i.e. Samus telling the Federation to go fuck itself and blowing up the BSL. From my experience, no one cares much about the part of the game that's just "told" to the player, i.e. Samus' reflections on Adam, or Adam's long, droning speeches about whatever was next up on the kill list. Additionally, the end of the game winds up being a hot point of discussion because it is a cliffhanger, and, more notably, a 15 year old cliffhanger that still has shown no signs of being resolved. It's going to be a major talking point among the fanbase just because it's been such an absurdly long time. 

As for "nobody talks about Prime's story," if you were around the fanbase at the time, the cliffhanger that followed Prime 1's ending was also a major talking point until the announcement of Echoes. Prime's story isn't discussed all that consistently nowadays because, well, all the gaps are pretty much filled in. There isn't a lot left to discuss; we know the story and there aren't any major mysteries that can really be speculated on. Corruption's cliffhanger was a pretty common talking point too until Federation Force revealed that it didn't mean anything; at least, not immediately. Wait for about a year or so, and Sylux will probably become the most popular talking point as we get closer to Prime 4.

TL;DR: The type of story (Prime vs. 2D) doesn't really make a difference as to whether the story is more or less talked about; it's a matter of whether there's stuff left open for discussion/speculation. The one exception to this is something like Other M where the story is so atrociously bad it will garner discussion for years to come.

I was around at the Prime fanbase, of course they would talk about what the sequel would be about and also the hint of that Hunter's spaceship at the end of Prime 3 gave a lot of speculation yet still, nobody really talks about the Prime games for their story because it just isn't as developed like in other games like in Zelda or even Mario.

Prime 3 tried to tell a Halo like space opera and it didn't make me care one bit about any of the characters other than Samus and Ridley. Fusion, the intro of Super and Other M makes clear why Samus is on her mission and what or who is important to her. The Prime games just start and end within their own world without making any connections to other games other than the original which barely has any story to begin with. You could say theyre just open ended and can fit anywhere depending on the player's interpretation.

Say whatever you want about Other M but, believe it or not, its thanks to Other M that Fusion got recognised for it's brilliance and the whole "canonicity" got taken more seriously even though it was controversial and "divided the fanbase" which in reality has always been a mess of community. Fusion finally found it's audience even though it's still has a lot of people in the fanbase who don't like it but compared to how despised it was, it sure took it's time to get the attention it deserved but it finally got there and the interest in the series' chronology was revived. Now im just waiting for Metroid 5.

To the former point, Prime is considered in the same timeline as the 2D games, according to a booklet detailing the series included with the SNES classic edition that launched recently.

To the second point, I'd disagree with that vehemently. The lore of the Prime games is probably the most heavily discussed component of the series' story that isn't directly focused on sequels or just discussions related to Other M. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by development, but I'm not sure there's any story aspect that Mario or Zelda come close to touching Metroid in. Story is a far more common point of discussion in the Metroid series, at least if the series' respective reddit pages are anything to go by, and Prime related discussion makes up a sizable portion of that.

Prime 3, I would argue, is arguably the most misunderstood Metroid game out there, and this is one thing that the Geek Critique absolutely nailed in his review of it. The point was never to make you care about any of the other hunters, or any character in the game besides Samus. The point is to establish characters (particularly the Hunters) as rivals and characters with at least comparable power to Samus, so that when they become corrupted, you're left in a position of "Wow, these guys couldn't handle Phazon; I better be careful myself." It's meant to demonstrate the corruptive power of Phazon, not make you feel sorry for people.

Finally...nah. I'll go with the "not" on the "believe it or not." Metroid's story was and has always been a major point of discussion among fans, and Other M did nothing but create divisions that didn't exist before and got people arguing about the narrative instead of calmly discussing it. Fusion's story was just as well understood and liked before as it was after.