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Forums - Sony Discussion - PSVR sold 500k in three month period through June

DonFerrari said:
Machiavellian said:

Yes, PC gaming is bigger but its not relative.  Meaning you have way more options on the PC for gaming.  You have your indie, AAA, mid tier budget you name it but VR is just one of many and currently at the time when the PSVR came out it was also the most expensive.  It required a beast of a PC and a device that cost more than most people PC and console conbined.  

You cannot tell me that cost of the device does not play a huge role for adoption.  Also the PC specs for the device was way higher than the average PC gamer has if you go by steam stats.  Only now are the prices coming down and I believe they will come down even more when MS partners enter the market with their Mix reality headsets.  I know I was very tempted to get the OR when it dropped to 399 but decided to wait to see how the market matures before buy in.

The thing is Sony has no weight in the PC market.  If they enter now they would not have the cheaper device.  They would also not have the best hardware because all of the PC OEMs has better tech.  MS mixed reality goes beyound with a built in camera for AR and better optics per eye.  Sony does not have any PC exclusives.  You are using the PS4 which is a closed device as an indication that Sony auto wins in the PC space as if the two markets are the same.  Could you give one good example why someone would purchase the PSVR on the PC over the other offerings.  If you believe Sony names just auto wins and people will purchase from that alone, I believe you are not looking at the 2 markets in the right way.

Consoles have most of the same content (AAA, mid tier, indie, etc) usually more expensive so the point was?

We know the price can play a role (and brand as well), so If PSVR was on PC as well, it would be cheaper then the competitors, so it would still be selling better than then (increasing what it was already selling on consoles).

Sony had Vaio but that is meaningless. Sony have brand recognition in the market at all, much more than Vive and Oculus when they started, so the point still stand (against what Vivister posted) Sony would have create an even bigger lead.

Have MS released their HW? As far as I remember they have talked a lot, but showed nothing. I would say we are more on Kinect 2 vibe.

MS partners will be releasing their HW in October.  They made a partnership with Steam VR so it will have access to all the games the Vive have including the apps and games that are out for the Hololens.  MS itself is not releasing any hardware, they have 5 OEM vendors who are all releasing HW.

Actually if the PSVR is on the PC you cannot assume it will come at a cheaper price.  The dynamics of the market is not the same so cost could come higher.  Right now the OR is at 500 bones and I expect that price to go down to 399 permanent when MS partners hit the market at 350 bones.  This is 50 dollars cheaper than the PSVR with better hardware.  

If Sony entered the PC market at the same time they released the PSVR for the PS4 you may have a point, if they release the hardware now no.



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Machiavellian said:
DonFerrari said:

Consoles have most of the same content (AAA, mid tier, indie, etc) usually more expensive so the point was?

We know the price can play a role (and brand as well), so If PSVR was on PC as well, it would be cheaper then the competitors, so it would still be selling better than then (increasing what it was already selling on consoles).

Sony had Vaio but that is meaningless. Sony have brand recognition in the market at all, much more than Vive and Oculus when they started, so the point still stand (against what Vivister posted) Sony would have create an even bigger lead.

Have MS released their HW? As far as I remember they have talked a lot, but showed nothing. I would say we are more on Kinect 2 vibe.

MS partners will be releasing their HW in October.  They made a partnership with Steam VR so it will have access to all the games the Vive have including the apps and games that are out for the Hololens.  MS itself is not releasing any hardware, they have 5 OEM vendors who are all releasing HW.

Actually if the PSVR is on the PC you cannot assume it will come at a cheaper price.  The dynamics of the market is not the same so cost could come higher.  Right now the OR is at 500 bones and I expect that price to go down to 399 permanent when MS partners hit the market at 350 bones.  This is 50 dollars cheaper than the PSVR with better hardware.  

If Sony entered the PC market at the same time they released the PSVR for the PS4 you may have a point, if they release the hardware now no.

Considering PSVR already works on PC as is, why and what you change that would also make the PSVR would scale in price?

Let's see how much MS VR will sell.. and again it isn't my point is counterpoint to Vivister saying that if Sony wanted Oculus and Vive sell more they should also had released the PSVR on PC.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

People saw the potential so much that still today it's considered child play... don't rewrite the history. I asked if you were able to tell the state of gaming today when you saw Pong in the 70's and you said yes... that is totally different than saying that you saw potential in it.

VR is new and we have cardboard VR, Youtube 360, porn in VR, 2M PSVR sold and Oculus and Vive... I would say that it's possible more than what Pong had.

And not to forget that the plural of anedocte isn't data. Sure VR is still niche, but you can't affirm that from today PSVR there is no possibility that it will evolve a lot and become a very good platform for gaming.

#1 Relevance?

 

#2 So you admit that VR is not a good platform yet?

 

The difference is Pong was FUN, people spent hours and hours with it. People still play it today to a degree. VR is supposed to blow us all away and it has fell flat to be honest. I have several friends on PSN with a PSVR that I never see them use and my personal friends also rarely use theres. Now I understand this is a small case study and there are people who love it but I have a feeling its a niche for the majority of people.

 



rolltide101x said:
DonFerrari said:

People saw the potential so much that still today it's considered child play... don't rewrite the history. I asked if you were able to tell the state of gaming today when you saw Pong in the 70's and you said yes... that is totally different than saying that you saw potential in it.

VR is new and we have cardboard VR, Youtube 360, porn in VR, 2M PSVR sold and Oculus and Vive... I would say that it's possible more than what Pong had.

And not to forget that the plural of anedocte isn't data. Sure VR is still niche, but you can't affirm that from today PSVR there is no possibility that it will evolve a lot and become a very good platform for gaming.

#1 Relevance?

#2 So you admit that VR is not a good platform yet?

The difference is Pong was FUN, people spent hours and hours with it. People still play it today to a degree. VR is supposed to blow us all away and it has fell flat to be honest. I have several friends on PSN with a PSVR that I never see them use and my personal friends also rarely use theres. Now I understand this is a small case study and there are people who love it but I have a feeling its a niche for the majority of people.

You want the relevance of you having to move the goal post? You explain that. The relevance of people not knowing what games would become when seeing Pong shows that the fact that today you not seeing the future of VR isn't something that are certain to happen.

I admit that it can improve, some users are already loving it, I don't have that much content to play on, but I have liked it enough so far.

It may be niche, but you can't determine that based on yourself.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:

I admit that it can improve, some users are already loving it, I don't have that much content to play on, but I have liked it enough so far.

It may be niche, but you can't determine that based on yourself.

I am not saying that people are not having fun with it but the majority of people I have experience with are not.

 

It 100% absolutely is niche at this point and I think it will remain so. At most 5% of the gaming audience owns one and probably less than half of that actually use it regularly. Rather it will remain niche is not yet set in stone but one thing is for sure it is not making anywhere near the same splash that Pong did



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rolltide101x said:
DonFerrari said:

I admit that it can improve, some users are already loving it, I don't have that much content to play on, but I have liked it enough so far.

It may be niche, but you can't determine that based on yourself.

I am not saying that people are not having fun with it but the majority of people I have experience with are not.

 

It 100% absolutely is niche at this point and I think it will remain so. At most 5% of the gaming audience owns one and probably less than half of that actually use it regularly. Rather it will remain niche is not yet set in stone but one thing is for sure it is not making anywhere near the same splash that Pong did

PSVR at 2M on a 65M base is even less than 5% there is no denying it's niche at the moment. We are at the portion of waiting for it to really catch fire, the issue right now is price and content even more than it being awkward.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

rolltide101x said:

I am not saying that people are not having fun with it but the majority of people I have experience with are not.

Oooohh... "the majority of people". Is that a big number? How many people are we talking about?

rolltide101x said:

VR is just very dumbed down games, really do not see that changing ever. I have 2 other close friends with VR (One with a Vive and one with a PSVR) and we all pretty much agree that VR is fun occassionally but overall it is no where near worth the price.

Oh, three people... you and your two friends. That seems to be a very representative group and not anecdotal at all!

http://www.alistdaily.com/digital/study-89-percent-of-vr-buyers-are-satisfied-with-their-purchase/

According to the study by research firm Magid, 89 percent of VR purchasers indicated they were “satisfied” or “very satisfied” with the product, with a majority naming the latter. In fact, 81 percent of those who purchased VR devices indicate a willingness to recommend to friends or family. Eighty-five percent of VR purchasers believed their device was a good value, while 90 percent rated their device as “easy” or “very easy” to use.

https://artillry.co/2017/09/12/psvr-and-vive-score-highest-on-vr-satisfaction-new-report/





rolltide101x said:
SvennoJ said:

VR will go mainstream, but that doesn't mean it will replace traditional ways of gaming. Mobile, handheld, PC, console, browser and tablet gaming can all co-exist together, why can't VR simply be another option for gaming?

What is it that stops you from gaming more in VR? The games? Discomfort? Would you play Skyrim in VR?

My gaming time is 95% in VR nowadays, 1 or 2 hours a day. One upside to VR being more intense is that I'm satisfied sooner and get more sleep. Time seems to go slower than when playing BotW and HZD which kept me up till 4 am. I could be the games though. I wonder how Skyrim will go in VR. I used to play that till early morning on ps3.

VR is just very dumbed down games, really do not see that changing ever. I have 2 other close friends with VR (One with a Vive and one with a PSVR) and we all pretty much agree that VR is fun occassionally but overall it is no where near worth the price.

Dumbed down? The only thing dumbed down is the graphic fidelity. Heck Polybius without VR is the dumbed down version as that game can really use 120fps at the speed its going. But sure, the market isn't large enough to risk long expensive projects on it, thus most if not all VR exclusive games are pretty short. Yet the ones shared with normal screen usage are not dumbed down, rather enhanced by playing in VR.

RE7 without VR is the dumbed down version since you can't peak through cracks in the door or out a window.
Until dawn wouldn't work outside VR, how would you shoot in two different directions which would both be off-screen.
The speed challenges in Eagle flight would be near impossible with a controller.
How would you weave through a hail of bullets in Superhot VR. It's not a dumbed down version, it's a different game.
Dirt Rally is much easier in VR, that's not because its dumbed down, simply because you have a far better sense of speed and situational awareness.

Ofcourse for all a better sense of situational awereness is highly beneficial. I have far less need of a map in VR. I would have gotten hopelessly lost in the solus project on a screen. In VR I'm surprised how easy I can find my way around and back.

Anyway I don't know what you and your friends have been playing. There are plenty of misses too, happens with the experimental nature of a new way to play games. The worst I've played are Loading human: Chapter 1, Super Stardust Ultra, virZoom Arcade and Neptune Flux. Lot of mediocre stuff too but the same is true for normal game releases.



Machiavellian said:

MS partners will be releasing their HW in October.  They made a partnership with Steam VR so it will have access to all the games the Vive have including the apps and games that are out for the Hololens.  MS itself is not releasing any hardware, they have 5 OEM vendors who are all releasing HW.

Actually if the PSVR is on the PC you cannot assume it will come at a cheaper price.  The dynamics of the market is not the same so cost could come higher.  Right now the OR is at 500 bones and I expect that price to go down to 399 permanent when MS partners hit the market at 350 bones.  This is 50 dollars cheaper than the PSVR with better hardware.  

If Sony entered the PC market at the same time they released the PSVR for the PS4 you may have a point, if they release the hardware now no.

I hope they do well but it's not as claar cut as you think. First of all they can't do AR, the camera on front is solely for tracking. Default is 60fps which is pretty low, you still need a decent gaming pc for 90fps, especially if you want to make use of the higher resolution. That higher resolution also comes at a cost of being stuck to LCD instead of OLED next to having the smallest fov. And ofcourse controllers are only tracked when in view.

So sure, PSVR 120hz oled could still be desirable on PC. Yet I doubt Sony will add any official support for PSVR on PC. MS gets money from licensing the inside out tracking tech, so let it work on everything. Sony gets money from games sold in the ps eco system, tie it to ps4. Simple economics. Ofcourse more VR users, means more vr games, means a bigger pool of games to port to psvr or vice versa, money!

I hope inside out tracking proves its worth. Removing external setup requirements is a big step in the right direction. Early review is optimistic.
https://uploadvr.com/played-superhot-vr-new-windows-headset-impressive/



WHAT IF YOUR HOUSE CATCHES FIRE. What then? You will burn to death thinking it's part of the vr experience.